Breed Study - help us pick!

PKBoo · #1 03/03/12, 10:25 PM

One of the exercises for the Master Spinner program is to spin wool from 10 different breeds of sheep. We have to spin two 10-yd skeins, one spun worsted and one spun woolen, then knit a small swatch from each.

So JDog and I now have 6 samples, and we don't know where to start! I sent her an email asking her to pick one, and she sent me an email, asking me to pick one!

So I'm coming here, and asking all of you - which one would you start with?

Here's what we've got:
Coopworth
Cormo
Cotswald
CVM
Perendale
Romney

**gone-a-milkin** · #2 03/03/12, 10:56 PM

Okay, I vote for Cormo!
That is just based on nothing more than my love of Cormo.
Feel free to vote for any of the others.

I have never spun Coopworth or Perendale so my opinion really means very little.

You and Jill might just need to draw out of a hat or roll the dice.
Good luck and keep us posted.

frazzlehead · #3 03/03/12, 11:11 PM

You gotta do 'em all, so it probably doesn't matter where you start!

Are you primarily a worsted or woolen spinner (do you draft backwards or forwards, and does the twist go into the drafting triangle or not)?

If you are primarily worsted spinner, go with one of the longer smoother wools, as it will be easier (they "want" to be spun that way). If you are used to spinning woolen, go with a shorter staple sproingier wool and start with the woolen sample then try the worsted.

What you should find is that some wools greatly prefer to be spun one way or the other - Southdown, for example, is a short staple Down breed very sproingy wool. It is perfect for woolen spinning - card it into rolags, and go to town. If you try to spin it worsted you'll turn the air blue and you will end up with lumps and bumps no matter HOW hard you try and how much you cuss.

It's an extreme example - lots of fibre can be done either way, but you do get different yarns depending what you do. That's the point of the exercise, I believe - to see the difference and to learn what results you'll get, and to learn how to decide which way to spin a given fleece.

So I would say, take the fibre you have and guess which way each one "wants" to be spun - spin it first the way you think it "wants" to be spun ... then the other way, and see if your hypothesis is correct.

Marchwind · #4 03/04/12, 05:52 AM

I have to vote for the Romney first

. It's my favorite. Un like GAM I personally cannot stand Cormo. Unless maybe if you have some that is commercially prepared, then it might be alright. I will never again process Cormo myself, it is a sticky gooey mess. But that's me.

I might spin them according to texture or fiber type.

Katherine in KY · #5 03/04/12, 09:23 AM

I'd start with Romney or Coopworth as they're easy to spin. I'm with you March on Cormo. I heard it once described as wimpy which is about right in my book.

JDog1222 · #6 03/05/12, 04:16 PM

Ooops, I didn't see this and I started with Romney!

OK, few questions!

Is the yellow part the tip or the butt of the lock?
AND.......do you spin worsted from the butt end? LMK, then I'll LYK how things went!

frazzlehead · #7 03/05/12, 06:05 PM

Yellow will be the tips.

I'm curious why you're spinning from the locks, though - don't you need to comb it first? Or card it?

If you are combing, you will load the locks tips out and then comb them off, repeating as necessary to get the fibres lined up.

If you are flicking the locks open, you would probably spin from the tip: flick the tips open, flip the lock over, flick the base open, turn it back around and spin.

Whether you spin from the tip or the skin side, you aren't likely to notice a lot of difference - some, but not a lot. Try both and tell us what happens.

Marchwind · #8 03/05/12, 06:45 PM

Cut or butt side will be flat even and not usually yellow unless it has yolk. Yellow is most likely as Frazzle said and it is the tip, discolored by the sun. When spinning from the lock I always spin from the cut end, it's the way the fiber goes and the scales too. If you were to spin it from the tip you would be going against the grain, as it were. Not impossible but you will get a much smoother yarn if spun from the cut end.

That's my opinion. Glad you started with the Romney. It is said that it spins itself

it's my favorite fiber or one of them anyway.

JDog1222 · #9 03/05/12, 07:06 PM

OK, it's yolk, the yellow is from the cut end. I tried to do worsted from both ways. The first single I like spinning from the tips, it seems to almost hold itself together better and grab the other fibers better that way. HOWEVER, when I plied it and was holding the two singles between the fingers the fibers were wanting to slip. SO I think it's best to do the singles from the butt/cut end, then ply from the tip, so the scales will grab and NOT allow the fibers to slip during plying.

This whole thing just has me in a FIT today. I'm SO mad at spinning, I could just SPIT!

NOW, when I did my plying, I used the center pull method. Here's my question on that. Is it OK that one of the strands seem to come more untwisted than the other?

All in all, I think my worsted yarns SUCK, and I HATE that I thought I was such a good spinner until now, when they want me to do it JUST SO!

PLUS, I only have 2oz. of fiber.

I'm quitting for tonight. D's get degrees, right? I'll still be a master spinner even if I get a D, or do I have to get a C-?

JDog1222 · #10 03/05/12, 07:12 PM

Yeah, MW, I think they say true worsted is spun from the butt/cut end.

Frazzle, I'm combing the locks. I just use the term locks to make my question a little ezr to understand.

ALSO, if I use the center pull method to ply, wouldn't one be going from the butt/cut end and the other, the opposite direction, tips?

AAAAAAAA I'm stressed!!! SO MANY DETAILS to worry about

!

PKBoo · #11 03/05/12, 08:23 PM

JDog - you'll get it! The whole point is to push you to learn new things, and to try new things, and to IMPROVE!!!! So by the end of making 10 different 10-yd skeins, you'll be a PRO!! (And I can always send you more samples, so NO STRESSING - this is supposed to be fun, remember??) Intense, but fun

Did you wash the Romney first? I was planning on washing, then prepping it. I know we have to include a lock of raw wool, so I was going to take that out, then wash the rest - GENTLY wash the rest

I was going to hand card half of it to make rolags, then spin woolen. And comb the other half and spin that worsted.

How did you prepare the fiber for each type? Take a deep breath, and tackle it tomorrow

frazzlehead · #12 03/05/12, 08:36 PM

JDog ... keep in mind that SOME OF THESE ARE MEANT TO NOT WORK.

(Shouting so you hear me over your self-deprecations!)

It's not necessarily *your* spinning. Some of these fibres strongly prefer woolen over worsted - and the exercise is meant to show you that. Depending how you prep it, how you spin it, you will get completely different results.

As for plying - the "technical rule" is first spun first plyed, which means you have to rewind the bobbins. But hardly anyone ever actually does this and as near as I can tell it makes absolutely no difference to yarns spun by ordinary mortals. Perhaps hair fine silk thread ... but regular old wool? I defy anyone to tell the difference.

Seriously, don't over think this. DO document each thing you do, but that's all the detail you need to "worry about" - writing it down. Just do it, and write down what you did. The idea is to experiment and then see what happens. If everyone were to "only do it the way the Fibre Police Say it Must Be Done" ... you'd miss out on so much of the learning. Sometimes, doing things the 'wrong way' gives you exactly the result you are after.

Hey - want another trick to add to your list? You can spin from the fold.

Then you aren't spinning tip first OR cut end first, you're spinning from the middle! I'm doing this right now on my supported spindle with some really, really fine alpaca/cashmere.

And now you know why I am not a master spinner candidate. The thought of doing all these experiments is more than I can handle - though I do like to try things and see what happens, I'm not up for a bunch of tiny skeins and all that documentation. I'm more comfortable with taking eight years of trial and error and winging it!

However, when trying to decide what to do with a given fleece, I *will* take a section and try spinning it different ways - woolen, worsted, combed, carded, long draw, short draw, thin, thick, 2 ply, 3 ply - and *then* decide which one I like best. So I use the tricks, but I come at it all from the back door.

Marchwind · #13 03/06/12, 07:10 AM

JDog as for plying from the ball (inside and outside). Hold the ball in your lap or rit at the foot of the wheel. The yarns have less distance to travel and less chance to tangle with each other. The outside will always go at a different rate then the inside. As for plying from the tip end and the butt end. I'm really not so sure it matters that much unless you are being real perfectionist about it.

I also agree with Frazzle these are all supposed to be challenges to your self. Not everything is going to work. I think with spinning and most fiber arts you have to keep in mind that you learn as much or more from your mistakes, trial and error, than from your successes. I think that is what this is all about. I know when I've taken classes and workshops from well known people the ones I liked the best were the ones that made you struggle a bit to find an answer and not all of them worked the way you thought. Kind of like a science experiment.

Most of all have fun with it.

JDog1222 · #14 03/06/12, 08:02 AM

So far, ALL of them are saying they want to be WOOLEN. I really don't see much difference in the two.

I'll take pics and be back in a min.

JDog1222 · #15 03/06/12, 08:12 AM

Breed Study - help us pick! - Fiber Arts

Can anyone guess who is on the left, in a navajo ply?

**gone-a-milkin** · #16 03/06/12, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDog1222

Can anyone guess who is on the left, in a navajo ply?

Carlee Sue Cricket?

JDog1222 · #17 03/06/12, 08:30 AM

LOL, NO, but I sure hope she turns out that nice. It's COPPER!

O how I love love love his color!

frazzlehead · #18 03/06/12, 09:26 AM

Beautiful!

One more centre pull ball trick: hold the ball in your drafting hand with a finger in the core of the ball and your hand gently around the outside. As you ply you kinda roll the wrist a little to help the outer strand come off as fast as the inner. Use your forward hand to guide the two together. By not letting the ball roll around you get less tangling.

Marchwind · #19 03/06/12, 10:14 AM

I stick my thumb in the center of the ball when it begins to collapse on itself.

Have you washed those skeins?

JDog1222 · #20 03/06/12, 11:24 AM

I held the ball in my left hand and had my finger and thumb in the center. They are really small balls, only 10yrs.
I did wash the skeins, why? They look ALMOST the same to me. Shouldn't I be able to tell worsted from woolen?