Why is it (BIG farms)

Milkstoolcowboy,


See I term a breakdown as something major, something that hinders my ability to cut, chop or bale hay. I do have minor breakdowns, sheared pins (3-4 total since 96), chains broke and other things. But the majority of the break downs are minor, im not rough on the machine and each winter it is stored under cover. If you have to spend $$$$ on parts each year, have someone show you how to run the machine properly.


Well if you must get specific, here is what we get each spring before its time to hit the fields. Oil, Filters, Grease, Twine, Knives for the discbine.. That sums up the spring. I have someone help me change the oil in the machines, tractors I do myself (easier), and clean the air filters for both the engine and the A/C (cabbed tractor). As far as corn? Who said I was going to put in corn? The only seed will be for hay. IMO corn silage is cheap feed, it does give energy but protein is low. Heck, the corn meal we get is 9%, but it is energy. You don't need to feed corn silage if you have hay, and grass silage. Before corn silage was fed, cows ate grass, and their bodys are made for grass. Anyone that has milked or is milking that I have talked with said they would like to feed mostly hay. But they can't, not enough help to store the hay, and even with a large square baler they can't bale enough. So its why farms feed corn silage and grass silage, as it is less labor intensive. People rather drive a dump truck or tractor, over throwing hay. But with my situation, it will be hay, grass silage and of course grain. Remember, quality feed is what counts. Animals will last longer with hay, sorry but I am not buying silage is better.



Never said the animal is good based on weight, and never mentioned it was dairy. If you go back and read what I said "Grain vs not grained" aka, feed comparison. Remember what assume means, except the me doesn't apply in this situation.

The reason I say my hay is good, theirs is ok, or whichever it may be. Is due to the customers who used to buy from them, two from one place and one from another. The one was being ripped off, but the other was paying less for it being delivered. They like the hay because of its quality and their animals do not waste it. The climate for those two farms better be the same, they are a stones throw away.


Who said anyone is counting on a zero vet bill, twice in your response you assumed too much, and assuming means, well im sure you know, then again... You see, if you need a herd health program this is what that says to me, you need the vet there because your either inept or perhaps dont care. Before you even begin anything, you should have your own personal "program" which is, do what you must to keep them healthy to begin with. See with a small herd, you can keep an eye on an animal better, than say a large herd. What if ol bessy is off behind the lot of cows in the barn. But lets say ol bessy went down, of course bessy at the big farms most likely has a # vs a name, as production is all that matters. Now ol bessy isn't noticed untill she doesn't show up, perhaps the computer shows she is missing (im talking a big if here, as most farms would notice this before, atleast I hope!). Now by the time they get to her, to late. Now imagine if the same cow was in a small herd? She would have been noticed the minute you either let them in, for that night, or that morning before you milked if she was inside. Perhaps she could get up, so the cow is saved. This im sure has happened, don't say it hasn't. Now yes, cows go down, but the clock starts ticking down quickly once a cow goes down on her side. Preg. checks I can understand, those are essential. Keeping animals up to par has to do a lot with observation, feed etc. You can tell when an animal isn't doing well, especially if you know the animals. A small farm can do this, big farms can't. If you have one that isn't eating and normally hogs food, you can pick up on this easier in a small herd. But I still love the fact you think I expect no visits from the vet. Once again my comparison was to now, because we are constantly looking over the herd, making sure their well being is good, we avoid the vet, and the same can be done with dairy animals. A dirty operation will yield problems, a clean operation will have some, but they will be reduced, think about it. Not only that, a lot of the issues that arise you can do yourself..


Yes, and I agree, and exhibit A is down the road. They filled a trench with grass silage, and you know what they did? You might guess right, they left it open for oh 2 months before finally covering it. You should have seen the mushrooms on that stuff. They feed it, and then he said to me "my production is down". I am thinking, well what the heck do you think causes that? It's the feed!. Of course I didn't say anything, he was already ticked at us for something we didn't do, so no thanks. But that operation could be 10x cleaner, but they seem to not give a crap, ah well. I feel bad for the animals, but atleast it's better than it was. Their heifers aren't skinny this year for a change, odd when you can compare a 2+yr old to a 12 month old IN SIZE. This farm is extreme though, and I have no idea why they do what they do. Two sons, father milks and the place isn't a tad better? This might be a family farm, but sometimes I wonder why he even stays with it (he says insurance), but I still will hop on the fields with my stuff to get some of their hay done if they need it...

Last but not least, the best for last. What I find funny is any farmer, anyone who has milked or does milk that I have talked with, anyone who I have thrown my ideas at, said "It's well thought out." I've told them what im doing in the barn, talked with grain producers, etc etc. Heck some places were floored at what im going to do, in regards to cow comfort etc. I think one thing you fail to realise is the fact I have been around dairy since I was born, I learned from past farmers that were here. I remember learning how to bale wayyy back. I have been around cows since I was born. This farm was a full blown dairy back from 1976-1982. Two farms were going, it was about 100 total between the two. My father had two people working, one at this farm, another at the other. He sold out, around the time his mother was dying of cancer. So he has seen my ideas (actually is paying for the grates, etc). He said it seems well thought out, and knows the situation. What I love is people who try to judge others, that decide to assume vs open their minds to listen. I love it when people say they are more experienced, yet the replies show something different. Some may think "Because I didn't do as well as I orginally thought I could, you can't either". You see, im not rushing into it, I have a nice stretch of time to get ready. I never rush into anything, I never tackle anything unless I know I can do it. I did a ton of research prior to making the final decision. The fact that 50% of farms are under 50 head, shows small farms are still ticking along. There are many small organic herds out there, one organic farm south of me in this county. The arrogance is the one implying arrogance, and it is being arrogant to assume too much, and it is what you have done. First the 1500lb animal, never mentioning it makes a good animal, had to do with feed. Then the vet assumption. But what I love is the doubt, and anytime someone doubts me, it shows that I must be doing something right. Because each and everytime that person is proven wrong. But like I said, never assume milkstool...



Jeff

I live across the road from a mid sized dairy farm. Each day I marvel at the traffic that services the dairy. There is the daily milk pickup tanker, the daily feed/supplement delivery truck, the daily/weekly Vet, some rendering truck pickup for the dead cows, multiple salesmen, hoof trimmer, milking equipment repairman, manure removal service, etc. All these people are making some money from the milking operation. The owner/operator man that runs the farm thinks he is the one calling the shots but he is not. Any check written to pay bills comes from a credit banker. The owner/operator is actually working for all the previous mentioned persons and does not realize it and he is poorly compensated after they are paid since there is little left. I go by his place to get to my beef farm. I do not make a lot of money from my operation but I feel badly knowing that I am only going to be at my operation for a short time and I know that I do not have his expenses nor his headaches. I learned a long time ago, it is not what comes in as accounts receiveable but what is left after the expenses are met. I do not farm the government programs, if I did maybe I would try to farm on a larger scale as that is a factor on the government handouts.

I live in the highest dryland production area in the US. Wheat yields on some farms average over 120 bushel. I have a neighbor that leases 1000 acres, doesn't own new equipment, fixes it all himself. Drives new vehicles and doesn't complain about not making enough. I have a friend who farms with his brother on 5000 acres, same general area as the first guy. He told me that what income they make off of the wheat and barley pays for producing the crop ( including equipment) and what they get in farm subsidies is their income. At first I thought well that's not much income, since when I grew up on a farm in MT, you didn't get much in farm subsidies. But, then I find a website that list subsidy payments to farmers and he and his brother are pulling in over $400K each year. I cornered him on it and he was speechless and hasn't ever answered my question.

It really depends on the farmer and how much of the work they do themselves and how much they hire out. Most of the farmers in my area work 6 to 7 months a year take vacations every year and complain about not having anything. The one's that don't complain do all their own work, maybe take a vacation and never complain about doing without.

BobG

Jeff,
First off, let me say that there are successful dairy operations of all types, large parlor operations, small single-family operations, organic farms that bottle milk on the farm, pasture/rotational grazing operations. I honestly hope you are successful because I like to see more young guys start dairying.
Second, I don't think you'd get much disagreement that it has become much more difficult to make a living at farming over the last 20-25 years. I'm not saying it is impossible, but it has become more difficult.
Third, I never criticized your operation or questioned your competence, but I think that you aren't being completely realistic about expenses and I think you're pretty ---- cocky for a guy who is just starting. Just my opinion, and if you don't like it, just ignore it. I don't give a tinker's ---- what you or anyone else thinks, because you don't pay the bills for my operation.
Fourth, here are some things I do know for sure:
1. Almost all people who are successful in any field got there and stay there because they work hard and they work smart.
2. When I was 25, I THOUGHT I knew a whole lot more than I think I know at age 74.
3. There is always someone who is better than you
4. Never stop trying to change/improve for the better.
5. When ever you stop to pat yourself on the back, the next sensation you feel will usually be a bit lower and a whole lot harder.

With that said, guys like you make me laugh my *ss off. I guess I've made a living farming for over 50 years by being either tremendously lucky or having somewhat of an idea what I'm doing -- must be mainly luck I guess. I bought three farms, raised four kids and helped put them through school, and have no debts. I've got all my inputs and fuel for the upcoming year bought and paid for. I don't know who or what has been impressed by what I do, and I really don't care.
I have a cow-calf operation and feed out steers, farrow-to-finish some hogs, and sell some hay and straw as well, but dairying and selling registered Holsteins has been my bred-and-butter for the last 35 years. I honestly don't think I need anyone to show me how to run my machinery, and I could hardly stop laughing when you said that a herd health program means that you are either inept or don't care. Ever heard of prevention being better than cure? I have a high-BAA Reg. Holstein operation with some very valuable animals, why is that I wouldn't care?
Let me leave you with this thought. If it was so easy to make money dairying, don't you think you'd see more people getting into the business?

__________________
"Never tell people how to do things. Tell them what to do and they will surprise you with their ingenuity." Gen. George S. Patton Jr.

Actually, I'm not sure you would.

I don't think most younger people today really want to work that hard ... or be tied down to the farm all the time (what's a vacation?) or have to work outdoors in all kinds of weather.

For instance my neighbor has 3 kids and none of them want anything to do with farming. A shame because there is plenty of money to be made there. (I'm not complaining though because now instead of buying our hay, we're able to sharecrop because he doesn't have enough hands to put it all up!)

__________________
"I love all of this mud," said no one, ever.

Jeff, I would suggest that your neighbor satisfies a niche market which makes him very good money but the circumstances are just perfect for him. In answer to your question, 'why big?" The answer is simple really. There are not enough little operations to feed your population and not enough land base to have the little operations needed to supply the entire population and I believe it was you that said you don't want any livestock coming in from other countries to meet that need so there is really one solution, big operations and it really doesn't matter if it's dairy, beef, grain, oilseed or salad crops. Mom & pop operations will not feed the US.

milkstoolcowboy, I always appreciate you input, you always bring a wealth of information and insight. I know you aren't looking for a pat on the back for your hard work in a tough industry but you I'd be glad to give you one. It's nice to see you've come back out of hiding and back visiting.

Unioncreek answered my question, and that seems like the likely reason. What I do not understand, or maybe they do. Is how the heck can you enjoy something that gives you that much headache to make some cash. Sorry but, if this thing gave me a huge headache, and I was not enjoying it, id start building and selling computers like I was going to do at one time.


Now back to stoolcowboy,


One thing you have done is assume wayyy to much, because you judge what I typed by the way I am, is not wise. I for one am hardly cocky, if I was cocky I would not question my abilities. I do question my abilities, and the reason why I do is I try to improve each year, go for an efficent operation. I organise, plan etc for the coming year. At this time I am planning what fields to chop, what fields to bale for 1st cutting, which mows ill use, etc. I do not have to plan for the fuel and the oil because I know what I need, and know when we need it. I know the number of bales I need (twine) for the coming year. Last year it was 10, bought more later as for some reason we baled more hay. So this year ill buy 15 bales of twine. I always buy a box of grease regardless what is left over, usually go through a box or more a year. The feed is all planned for, and I have an idea what ill need this year. So with the assumption you made with not planning, is just that. For someone 74, you assume wayyy to much. For example, I never assumed your age, never assumed what you do, etc. I figured you have been farming for a while since you did have an older baler, and acted like you knew your stuff. But the cockyness? How about, planned. I could say someone is cocky if they said "I have this setup, etc etc". Instead they sound like they have planned things accordingly. I found my milk markets, researched cow comfort, researched dividers, lunge room and the list goes on. I have talked to people about comfort. Heck I got an idea from the one farm we bought four registered Jerseys from about mats. She said the mats are ok, etc etc. But she liked the mattresses, so I looked them up and read about them and went with those, those arrived Monday.


So if I was cocky, etc I would not listen to people, would not take things into account. I plan accordingly, I study an idea, I talk it over, read about it and see if it will work. Last year I ponderd a new chopper, I wanted more 2nd cutting, and wanted better forage (grass silage), and during wet years it would be helpfull. So I did some calculations, I figured if I chopped x fields, I could get x 2nd cutting bales. So after it was all figured I said, it will work. Well I sit here now and think, boy am I glad I chopped. I filled the silo 1/2 way (60ft silo) and I have enough grass silage to take me to May, if not beyond. This has cut down on hay intake some, the animals look better, and due to the lack of sun it is the best feed on the farm. The fact we got soooo much rain, not a lot of sun, everyones forage around here is lacking. But that grass silage makes up for the lacking nutrients in the hay we feed. I have never seen the animals look so good. So before you assume, remember im not some cocky bastard that walks around thinking I KNOW MORE. I am far from that. Now you can laugh your @$$ off, but what makes things entertaining is when someone thinks they are all so surperior to someone else, because "Im older, your younger so shaddup". I find it funny the other day someone a good 20-25 yrs older than I comes up to me and asks me about my baler. They live down the road, drive by here during hay season, so they see what is going on. Apparently im doing something right. So I gave him the info, told him that I had to tweak the 570 a little, and now I break a total of 10-20 the entire season. Those are bales that are weak at the knot, or hit a bale square (pops the twine). But you get those regardless. He was thinking of either fixing his old JD baler, or getting a 570. Those balers BTW pack bales something fierce. I fluffed up a bale yesterday and its amazing how much hay is in those bales. I can't imagine what my old 42" 75lb bales were like, much less the 100lb alfalfa bales I baled once.

I too have some darn good stock. Bought 4 reg jerseys for 2400 at one farm, 4 Reg. holsteins totaling 8000 at another, and 10 totaling 15,000 at another. I don't screw around when I do something, I do it right the first time, as one of my incomes will be selling the calves that come from these animals. The dams to these animals range from Good to Very good, a couple are under 80%, and those I will either breed up to improve their udder, frame etc etc, or breed them to a hereford to get some baldies. But the whole genetics part of it is interesting, and its nice to have two farms willing to help me that have some of the best genetics in the county. One of them won the showmanship award or whatever it is twice in a row at the county fair, out of 200 something animals. An animal leased from their farm last year won 1st out of the heifer class. Best part of it, they are willing to help, and are not snobby people. Originally the lady wasn't going to sell us as many, she said "she might have 1". Well that list grew to 6, after I talked with her husband and told him what we feed, what im going to be doing etc (he did say to me with my operation they will probably last longer). There are two sides to that, one was she didn't want them going to some place that wont take care of them, and every single cow there is friendly. So they were her pets of sorts. But it felt good that she could trust me with them, from 1 to 6, pays to be honest. Best thing though was when the cattle hauler picked them up. We were all standing there, her son (went to college for cattle genetics), myself, kid that helps us out, hauler and the owner. The cattle hauler says "I wouldn't truck for anyone who doesn't take care of their animals" or something like that. This is a guy who will like you, or wont deal with you. He knows the setup, knows our animals. It made her feel good, and surprised the hell out of us. But regardless if you care about compliments or not, I do. I do not expect them, but when they are out of the blue, its a confidence booster. Another tid-bit, there are a lot of people who drive by here, wayyy out of their way. I find that amusing. Who knows, maybe its the fact they know we dont have to do this to make a living, and see what is going on. But that alone makes me work even harder.



Back to the topic..


Willow_girl,

You hit the nail on the head why people do not get into milking, and the labor aspect of it. Why people do not like to throw hay, it all comes down to work. It is not easy throwing hay, it is not easy running a herd, its work and hard work at that. If it was easy, more people would do it.

Raising animals does take skill, some people kill animals not on purpose, but because they feed them improperly (feeding egg and milk to young birds, why people think birds drink milk is beyond me). But once you gey lazy and slack off, its time to quit. If your milking and your somatic cell count is sky rocketing, its time to look into the problem or get out (remember your wallet might be hurting, but the animal is the one suffering). But all of this scares the bajeezus out of people, and most people can't afford to start it up, even if they can, work is scary to most. A lot of people now adays rather work at a desk, than do things like farm work. I just hope in 2 years when one of the kids that helps here graduates from school, will be replaced by someone else. If not, the backup will be 12 wagons x 300 which will be plenty of hay to feed the animals + 1000 to 1500 bales in the barn. All of this might happen if we cant find people, and we had one kid come for one day, he had to go home, could not handle the hay. Some can do it, some cant.


Wr,


The problem with the neighbor is, I don't think they care as much as they should. Letting a full pit get rained on for several months was very frustrating, and gave me the sick feeling one gets when things aren't going well. Atleast they have some good feed there, and they aren't hurting because of money. Their equipment isn't greased, and their tractors aren't maintained. I checked their TW-10 once, no hydro, no wonder one of the pumps that drives the pto stopped working. But I love the chance when I get it, to help them out, makes me feel good.


But I do understand that big operations are essential to us living, however before the big farms came in, there were over 800 farms in this county. There were more cows in this county then too. Now we no longer rank up there, western NY has more cows. But even here the big farms are going. One big one last year, and who knows what other farm is next. One thing remains, milk companies and the government rather have a couple big farms in an area vs 200 small famiy farms. It is easier to pick up 75,000 lbs of milk per day at one place, vs 75,000lbs of milk at a bunch of little places combined. But comparing small to big, the people at small farms will invite you in, and talk etc. The big farms are so busy they dont have time. Its interesting how the small farmer after the morning milking and chores can go off and do something else, while the big farmer cant. The big farm we bought 10 Reg. holsteins at had a number of sick animals, the other two farms didn't. One farm had two, but both were healthy (the problems weren't major), the other farm had none. Maybe im bias because im a small buisness kinda guy, and like the buisnesses that are friendly.

And yes I am the one that said I dont want to see an influx of animals from outside the us, because I like to see our country support itself, and the small local guys benefited at the market. The guy that moved the animals down here said he likes the current situation, because he knows people that are benefiting off of the current market.


Jeff

I don’t know anything about keeping cattle but what I’ve read on these boards. I’m saving for a farm. I spend a good amount of time lurking and rarely post.
I’d like to thank Milkstool and Jeff (and others) for this exchange. It’s been very informative. Please don’t think of your exchange as a battle over who knows the most, because you never how a little piece of your post teaches us new to farm life. The smallest detail to you is new to me.
Keep up the great info and those pic’s posted of the barn being renovated were great. I dream of doing that someday myself.

**** happens.
I'm sorry, Jeff, but I simply cannot get over how overly sure of yourself you are. You simply cannot stop things from going wrong. You may have a few good years and then everything that can go wrong, will go wrong all at once. Regardless of how much you plan ahead. You can plan your little heart out but in the end nature doesn't care. Everything on your farm is susceptible to nature.

Maybe I am bitter because it is winter and we have lost three calves, three goats, and are having to sell our older cows because they have healthy immune systems. Maybe it is the fact that a man who has never had to take out loans to run this farm and has always had enough to support his large family is now considering quitting (which affects the lives of over 50 head of cattle, over 20 goats, etc.)...Maybe it is the 200 plus pounds of milk having to be dumped in the manure spreader because the counts are too high because the cows are older and have healthy immune systems (in a couple of cases it is mastitis but that milk wasn't going in the tank anyways).


In the end you can never be fully prepared. You can only hope you have the strength and ingenuity to tackle what is thrown your way and come through it still alive and kicking!

__________________
Roseanna
Morning Mist Herd
Journey's End Jerseys
Jerseys, Jersey/Norwegian Reds, Beef, Boers, Nubians & crossbreeds

Roseanna, keep your chin up. Yeah winter is tough. Had a stillborn heifer on the farm this morning. She didn't freeze; she just never got going. Took a couple sips of air but couldn't manage to clear her lungs. She was a great big calf too, from a healthy cow. Sometimes you just shake your head and wonder why ...

Those older girls of yours might make good homestead cows or maybe you could place them with someone who would like to raise calves off the milk.

I just finished 2 days of fixing pens, fences, gates and you name it around here. Everything and I do mean EVERYTHING was getting out!

The last straw came last night, when Gary and I were snuggled up watching a movie. We heard a commotion, looked outside and a cow (Christine) was standing on our DECK! She went back and forth between the window and sliding door for awhile, mooing to be let inside (NOT A CHANCE) then took a healthy dump and ambled off, right down the steps (didn't faze her a bit!).

She is back in her pasture today, with a new strand of electric wire up and hooked directly to the charger (I couldn't figure out where the fence was shorting out!!!). She is not at ALL happy about this turn of events, but oh well ...

Sometimes I fear this is a lunatic asylum I have here ... and the inmates are running it! :no:

__________________
"I love all of this mud," said no one, ever.

Jeff, dosthouhavemilk has some very valid points regarding unplanned circumstances that can affect your world and there's more than just mortality. Drought or a surplus of rain can severely affect hay quality & production would be something that comes to mind. Others would be regular market fluctuation, you might be too young but I can remember times when milk was literally worth nothing and dairy cattle were worth the same, disease unrelated to the cleanliness of your operation can affect you. Since you are in the building phase of your operation you can bring in something or perhaps you might want to review the old news clips of hoof & mouth disease or what happens to the value of your herd if you happen to have BSE show up in a dairy cow in the US, do you have any deer - lepto can be a problem if you do? Again, just a few more of those unforseen circumstances.

dosthou,



Let me explain myself better. We have had our share of problems, and I expect many more down the road. However, the vast majority of problems we have, we remedy (some we had in the past were ones that are one time deals). So far this year, one problem cropped up. Sasha, a hereford/Jersey/hereford cross (yes, you read right, mother of the mother was a Jersey, her father was a hereford, and Sasha's mother being the cross was bred to a hereford, she doesn't look like a hereford, and has a Jersey frame) managed to damage her hoof on a feeder. Well she is doing fine, after being lazy for 2 weeks she is back with her group. Last year however, all of 04 0 problems. Called the vet once, for the rabies vaccine. Lucky year, and with 11 out of 11 calves, it was one hell of a year. However, the previous year was not so nice. We lost 3 calves. The 2 out of 3 were not pleasant, in order to get them out, we had to articulate the head, push it back in, move the leg in the right position, then ease it out. That sucked, not the whole articulating part, but loosing them like that. They were dead btw when I began to cut. The other one, died later on, about 45 days later. His mother was not happy with us, I think she thought we took him away. Last year, when we seperated her calf briefly, she got really nervous, because I do think she remembered. Cows aren't stupid keep in mind. I have seen cows get nervous, but she did act different. It's to bad they don't understand, but anyways. So yes, we do have problems, but these are problems not related to overall health. The mothers are healthy, the calves are new, and the calves are at the mercy of as you said, nature.

But with the milk herd, those animals are different, they aren't as strong as herefords. So I do realise their needs, realise they can have tons of complications which can kick you in the arse. Now the biggest complications, that can mess up your production is mastitis. That happens, however from what I have read. Mastitis is due to feed or a combination of feed and a dirty environment, or simply a dirty environment (and as you mentioned, older cows, read about that part too). The farm we bought the 10 holsteins from (going to post all 18 of my new ladies soon) has this one cow, all 4 quarters has mastitis. Well she (wife/co-owner) said, she never lays in the stalls, she always lays in the manure etc etc. I asked her, is it because she keeps laying in the manure? She said yes. I guess she is a problem cow, and one that will need to be shipped, dumping the milk from her isn't making any money. Nothing they can do about it, and they aren't going to devote their calving barn to one cow. But if you looked at this cow, you can tell she is a bit mental, she was druelling, and well she acts a little mental. But you get some mental cows sometimes, and steers.

So what am I doing to reduce mastitis, reduce the problems? When you see the final product of that barn, the one I posted pictures of, tape your jaw around the top of your head. Well maybe your jaw won't drop, but this barn I plan on working in for many many years, and do not want to be wasting time fixing, wasting time tending to animals because the barn was not setup right. The barn will also be online, it won't be for whoever lives here, and comes around. I will have a webcam in that barn, so I have to keep things clean, and keep them looking good. I love a challenge, and perhaps it's why I do what I do. When we have any breakdowns, or we have animal problems, at that very moment your thinking, why the he11 do I do this? I then say, you know Jeff, when you get this here cow set, or get this here machine set, the feeling you get is good. If things dont go right, don't quit, or you will always quit under pressure. When I cut hay, and the next day the models/forecast changes I am like WTH! But boy, when that hay is all in and it POURS just after your done, you do a little dance inside your head. I should create a post, asking "Why do you do it?". Because I wonder if people do it because they like doing it, have to do it, etc etc.


But if anyone is going to take upon the task I set out to do, you gotta give yourself time to think it over, and realise it's not simple. The best thing I did, was get some experience with these herefords, and I also have been around dairy animals all my life (seen all kinds of problems). Some farms are clean, not many problems, some farms are dirty, they get hardware and sick cows. You know what was good, one night I was outside (I am a night owl), and was over in the neighbors pasture. One of his holstein heifers was down on it's side. She couldn't get up, so I worked at her, got her up. She lived another 6 months, then died (found her late at night). I think she got hardware, she did waste a little. There was another one down, and I couldn't save him. They don't know I did this, I would never tell them. But that felt good to save her for a while longer. I figure, why not? He doesn't watch them as close as he should. This is the same guy that is down the road. I'm not worried about disease, it isn't disease that kills them. Besides our animals have been in with his before, and this coming spring, those fences will be doubled up. No way in hell am I taking a chance with my dairy animals going over there.


Wr,


Rain rain rain, is all it did last year but we did get some quality feed. I ran out of room in the barn at the end of the season, so we did quite well during last years monsoon. The quality of feed isn't as good, no doubt there. However, our forage analysis weren't that bad. A little lower than 03's, but not bad. The 1st was about the same, the 2nd about the same. What did kill me was the alfalfa, it came out fine, it is green, but NOTHING like 03's. That was 18-20%, it was awesome stuff. I wish this stretch we are getting here was in late May. I could get 60% of the hay done. But it is feb, not late May, go figure!

The animals we brought in, were not fly by knights. The farms vaccinate theirs. Two of them don't vaccinate for rabies, however the bigger 1500 cow dairy does when they get older. But sure, that is always a concern, and it is why we are cautious with introducing, it is why I refuse to buy from an auction. This kid that helps us told me that his grandfather bought a calf at the auction for 250 or so, he put $800 into it. He would have been better off going to a farm, and paying for a $600 calf. It is what we did for all of them, and im glad. Every single one is strong, and healthy.

Milk prices with organic dairy is totally different than traditional. More are getting into the market, but it makes up only 2% of the entire milk market. Prices start at $22.00/cwt from dairylea, and go up to $26.00+ (was quoted a farmer that received a $26.40/cwt milk check for 3.6% butterfat, and 2.6% or so protein). That market is consistent, beleive me I did my research prior to buying animals. I found out their minimal pickup, I asked a lot of question to see if it is worth it. Organic dairy sounds scary, but as long as you have the mind set like they have (certifier), transition, etc goes smooth. We are 90% of the way there, and the lady at N.O.F.A said what we are doing will be a walk in the park (certification). They know our setup due to maps etc (land), and it also helps the same person (at NOFA) has an organic dairy farm. She said, since they dove into organic dairy in 95, they noticed their animals aren't as sick, and they don't have as many weeds (they got more weeds when they sprayed). What I also found online, was a write up about an organic farmer out in the Mid-west. He said since he went organic, his cows health is better (no antibiotics, so their systems work). I found that interesting. Remember, I have done a ton of research on this.


Willow_girl,


A person at the Jersey Association said that they know of someone who lets their Jersey inside to sit on the couch. Now that I gotta see! That doesn't surprise me though, Jerseys are curious/smart bovine. The one we have had for the last two years loves attention. She comes up to me and puts her head down, wants a hug, so I ablige.


Jeff

I hope they put a diaper on her first!

I used to have a Jersey who loved to go into the garage. (Not just our garage -- the neighbor's garage, too!) One day she came through our garage and pushed the back door to the house open, stuck her head in and was looking around. Gary caught her just before she stepped inside ...

I do think Jerseys are more intelligent than Holsteins, generally. There is a big bell curve when it comes to Holstein intelligence, though. Christine (my Houdini cow!) is right at the top of the curve. My other cow, Twister, is pretty dim, though.

My favorite cow on the farm where I work is dumb as a box of rocks, but friendly. We have a little routine where she'll stretch her neck out and rest her head on my shoulder and I'll scratch all around her face with both hands. It is rather cute because she'll let her neck go limp and put the whole weight of her head on me (it's heavy!). I've been teaching Christine here to do the same thing, she likes it too.

__________________
"I love all of this mud," said no one, ever.

So far from what i've noticed, there is without a doubt a nice solid difference between holsteins and Jerseys with intelligence. The 5 Jerseys we have, are totally different. The holsteins are aware, however those Jerseys catch on quick. We have a chain in each corner to grain the 4 individually (the other Jersey will be 2 this spring) and when it's time they will go to their corner, and if they don't they won't fight you. The youngest (echo) relents and lets you hook her up. Another one (opal) is beyond curious, she chews on the stones, glad the stones are solid. Well she will go to her corner. Blitzen will wait in her corner most of the time, and Reba is the only one who won't, she won't fight you as much, but she isn't as aware as the others. Now maybe holsteins would do the same, but I doubt it, same goes for herefords. Now i've noticed when you cross a Jersey to a hereford, you get the jersey brains, because there is a difference between their body language, and awareness. One of our crosses (vilderness gurl, vildy, visky or disky for short (don't ask me why)) can be snotty, like a Jersey. Now that saved her once

One day, my mother came up to the house and said someone is calving. So I went down, and found two (that day was brutal). Well vildy's calf was not coming right, and it was already out a ways to push it back. Well after calling the vet, working on her for 5 hours, calf did die. She was on her side for 5 hours+. Now after this entire ordeal she got back up, and is fine. She had a calf last spring and is due sometime late this month into March. I think due to her spunkyness, she made it. The vet did mention to put her down, and am I glad I didn't go with it (yes it was that bad). I figured, if we can get that calf out she will make it. She might be one snotty at times little bessy, but that's why I like her. She fought with a bull x many year back, and after beating him, she walked behind him for another day and kept hitting him in the arse. She will walk up to another cow and just start butting her for no reason, no one pushes her around. The best part of all, is purposely annoying her. For instance, ill grab her hair on her head (she has this long hair, its as if she has a wig) and she pulls away. I don't grab hard, but it's funny to see her snottyness. If I could have a herd of her, I would take it because those types have the most fight, and she actually makes a ---- good mother. The steer out of her taped out at 850lbs, he will be a year later this month.


Jeff

This has been a very interesting post. All of the comments have brought up some very good topics and interesting agruements. I must say that JeffNY has got his hands fulland wish you the best. I do have a coupe of questions though. Are you married, have kids, college loans, or insurance. Yes 20 cows at $ 20 cwt can pay some bills, but can it make a living and provide for you and a family. This is why we milk 80 cows and everyones wife works at a job that they dislike for insurance and to pay for braces and cars ect. We had a neighbor that was going to go organic dairying, and sells organic hay , but can't finish anything and just got kicked off the milk route. So just because everything is fed is organic doesn't mean they are healthy . Personally If I get sick I'll take antibiotics, and they same goes for every animal on the place. Mastitis happens anytime anywhere. Yes filth has a lot to do with it. I do grant that those mega dairies can produce large quantities of high quality milk, hence why the milk companies want them more than the ma and pa places. Best of luck in your future keep us posted.

You bring up a good question and it is why I can make myself a nice little income. I am not married, no kids, and live at home. I am an only child, and my expenses are minimal. I do my part which is keep the farm working, and keep the taxes low. So my primary expenses when the milk is flowing, will be the electricty/grain/fuel and income taxes. These are expenses for the barn, regardless of month, and day. Now of course there are vet bills and the like, however my overall expenses are low, and it is why the situation for me is different. Not only that, everything is paid for, no debts, loans, nothing. There is one farm out there that is organic, no idea where they are (I think it is NY). They feed minimal grain, because they graze. Well they turn almost total profit, in otherwords. Their electrcity bill is low, and im not 100% certain what they do with that. Not sure what their overall expenses are, but I think they are into electricity savings things. Either way, this was an organic grain producer who told me of that, I guess he sells to them, what little they buy.


Jeff