Breeding For a Homestead Dairy Cow

The plan is to use AI. As a general rule, dairy bulls always tend to be a little meaner than other bulls and we sure don't want a dairy bull getting into the beef herd. We wouldn't own a bull period if we didn't absolutely have to have one, as they are just a major pain in the butt that can be mighty destructive.

Not having many dairy cattle of any kind in this area, there are even fewer dairy bulls. I have been pouring through the different sites offering semen from top bulls and then going over all the different choices available. It is better for what I am trying to accomplish if I use the best that is available .

Too many times, when people breed an animal, they do it simply to get offspring. If we are going to assume the added responsibility of breeding animals, we should be constantly vigilant that we are making an improvement. Breeding just to get another baby assures us of having nothing better than what we have always had. No animal is perfect, but that does not mean we shouldn't strive to breed for that perfect animal.

The truth is, most homesteader type folks have little need for a bull. Until a person gets up to around 25 head of cattle, owning a bull is very hard to pencil out. This is especially true when a person has less than ten head. If we ever get out of the ranching game and move to a smaller place, a bull will not be going with us. We are very fortunate to be living in a time when we have so much information available to us. It is nothing to look around online and within just a few minutes we can find exactly what we need. After a couple minutes more, we can buy what we need and have it on its way to our door. This works well when it comes time to pick a herdsire for a few animals too.


Tex

Man, I love threads like this.

I look forward to hearing of the outcomes of your experiments, Tex!

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Knights and Dreams Farm

They can look better. A herd of Dutch Belts on pasture. A nice Longhorn steer. Even those Highlanders you have to admit are pretty to look at. (OK, maybe in a year or so when you've gotten that miserable cow out of your system.) We're on the same page for the most part, but don't get me wrong, I do like the heritage breeds. I like their nostalgia and for the most part their looks. I think it would be a shame to see them lost. What I don't like is the ALBC propaganda that makes them out to be something that they're not, and I find it very sad to see how many people can't think for themselves and swallow it hook, line and sinker.

I'm glad to see that there are still people who can attempt a cross using the right mix of knowledge and purpose, not just "to see what we get", or because it's all that they have on the place when breeding time comes around. I bet that your animals don't all have cutesy names either.

You might consider the Ayrshire. An excellent homesteading breed. Smaller cow, very hardy, and they are known for having a mild disposition.

I have thought alot about an Ayshire. I think they would make a good cross at some point. They have very nice traits, but they would be better as an outcross at some point in the future. I'm thinking in probably 2-3 generations down from the start.


Tex

In the early 1500's the Spanish brought over a small breed of cattle with them. Over the millenia those cattle got loose and the feral offspring have developed into what today are called Cracker's.
They originally carried dairy traits and were kind of a hard scrabble type of cow. Since then, nature has selected and built a cow that can live well on things like salt grass and swamp brush. They have even developed a taste for many kinds of browse.
And they will raise a calf on that.
I would suspect that with those feral inputs that there is going to be some high headed tendencies that would need to be culled and eaten. But things like parasite resisrance, and the ability to stand the temperature extremes of the mountain west This may be a type of cow that will compliment what you are working toward.
From personal experience with both Shorthorn and Br. Swiss cattle I would agree that using both as foundations are likely a sound beginning.
Another that may be something to explore are the wild cattle that are down on the
"Arizona Strip". There are cowboys in northern Arizona that still chase a few down to make a weekend dollar. I will say this. They will come look up your address,so look out.
I look forward to see photos of your results.

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That which is tolerated by the first generation is magnified in the next.

CIW

I think you mean over the centuries, and what you describe is the history of the Longhorn. The crackers have only been around in rather recent decades, because groups like ALBC have to dream up names for nondescript populations of feral animals to justify their own existence and further their agenda, which is mainly to keep their treasury full by selling memberships. Convince a few people that a breed exists simply because you give it a name, and you have a whole other group of disciples to send in their check. Neither the crackers nor the Longhorns are good milk producers. The beef production qualities of the Longhorn are being worked on by a few breeders, but they still are nowhere near as good as a lot of other breeds. The crackers don't have good beef type either. Both are good at surviving on their own.

"Immense" cattle have a tendency to handle adverse conditions better than the little frail pasture ornaments that we are told were the breeds of our forefathers. Our forefathers used most of their grain to make flour. Cattle were expected to fend for themselves. That is much easier when they put on an extra 300 pounds or so in the growing season. There is as much difference in lines of some cattle within the same breed as there is between some breeds. You are looking for a phenotype, not a breed. The Brown Swiss and the Shorthorn should have some examples of that phenotype. If you want a two foot tall milk cow, get a goat. If you want high milk production in marginal conditions, investing in some housing and plenty of grain and good hay might be cheaper than developing a breed.

The type of cattle you are describing used to work and work well, but that was all there was available. Cattle have been bred up and made better through alot of different breeding programs and I intend to take full advantage of all that hard work.

Longhorns or Cracker cattle may survive up here, but they are far from desirable in what I am hoping to accomplish. I really don't need to worry to much about parasites or worms here, so that is one trait I'm not even worrying about at this time. Those cattle have evolved and survived in the conditions they were in without help from people, but they evolved to become more suitable for those particular areas. This is a completely different environment and I think introducing them would probably give me more hurdles to overcome than if I were to use breeds that have more of the actual traits that I am shooting for.

Immense cattle cannot handle the distances that are involved when a cow gets turned out while she is dry. Granted, small homesteads don't have the distance issues we have here on the ranch, but if I can develop something that works for us, I know it will do well for someone in this area who is on a small homestead.

In our beef cow herd, we shoot for 1100 pounds as a weight on the high end. All of our cows are expected to provide and hustle for themselves. We do not overgraze our pastures and we always try to go into fall and winter with alot of standing grass to give the cows something to eat during the cold months. Rarely do we feed them much hay until calving season. Even then, we don't put out much.

We have never had a cow put on an extra 300 pounds during the good part of the year. I have ran cattle in several different regions of this country and I have never seen any pasture cattle do that without the aid of alot of extra feed and if that has to be done, that cow needs to go because she is not paying for herself. Most cattlemen will time their calving so that the cow is feeding that calf during the times the grass is growing. Therefore, all of the extra nourishment she is getting goes into milk production to feed her calf, not put on extra weight for the coming winter. The cow is expected to maintain an ideal body condition while she is feeding her calf. If she can't do that, again, she needs to go.

True, there is alot of difference in some breeds. Each breed has their breed standards though that they shoot for in order to maintain the integrity of the individual breed. At this time, it is some of the different traits from the different breeds I am hoping to utilize. I could try and take it down to the finite details on some different traits, but it would be counter productive at this time. The trick will be to wind up with a general idea of what I am looking for and then refining it from there.

Have you even read my posts in this thread and what I am working toward? When have I ever said I wanted a two foot tall cow? Goats are fine, but they are not a homestead type dairy cow. The end goal is not to wind up with a high production milk cow that should be in a dairy, but rather one that can meet a family's needs while also providing a little extra income. I have spelled out what I am looking for pretty well, I though.

A Brown Swiss and a Milking Shorthorn are both good cows, but they are pretty big for homestead needs. Alot of energy is needed to keep them warm and thriving in the winter time in this region. I appreciate some of their traits, such as good heavy bone structure and thick hides, but I would like to see that in a Jersey size cow and not something weighing 1500 to 1600 pounds.

I know what it takes to get good production in marginal conditions nowadays, hence this little project I am working on. Our beef cattle can make it without a barn and all of the supplemental feed, so why can't I shoot for that in a dairy cow? I realize that there will still be a need for some supplements, but I would rather they go into milk production and not into keeping the animal alive.

We have a barn for the dairy cow to use, but I would rather have a cow that doesn't prefer to stand in it all day waiting on me to feed her every bite she eats. We already feed grain and hay and along with the barn, we have all of the things you listed. By using AI and having a list of people who want calves that will let me breed them how I see fit, I don't understand how increasing input into things I already have would be cheaper.

The whole goal is to end up with an animal that will not require the use of the things you listed as much as they do currently. Everyone of the main breeds we have these days has been the result of someone trying to improve what was currently available. There were traits that people wanted to see improved upon and they tried to make a better animal. What I am trying to do, is not to make a new breed, but rather improve on what is currently available and wind up with a good cross or mutt of some sort. There is a need for something that will meet the criteria I have listed and with alot of work and a little luck, I hope to end up with something that will do better in this region that we currently have.



Tex

I'm a newb, and loved reading this thread! I grew up on a hobby farm in KS, and right now my dream is to start a homestead in CO (most likely South front range area.) I know water is an issue & a big factor when looking for land. I also know the prairie is very different out there. Some areas can be very arid, and pastures would need significant improvements to grow much. I've thought of incorporating a dairy cow into my plans, but honestly wasn't sure about the sustainability of that. Here you could easily pasture raise just about anything, but in CO I foresee lots of barn space, bales of hay & grain. Goats would do better on rough terrain and brush, but 1/2 the family wont drink that milk, and I'm sure we wouldn't like the meat either. I've been looking for dairy cows that might fit our needs better, and looks like I'm not alone. Heck I'd be happy if they didn't brake their legs out there, getting a few bites it eat is a bonus! Aysshire's may have potential, and the Tarentaise seem like they may do very nicely. I mean just look at the first picture in this slideshow! Holy cow! They are like goat/cows.

http://americantarentaise.org/gallery.asp?view=album&album=28

"The Tarentaise breed's home is in the rugged Savoie region of France, site of the 1992 Winter Olympics. It surprises most people to discover that in France the breed is not dual-purpose, but is used solely for milk production for the making of Beaufort, a Gruyere-type cheese.

The cows are managed on pasture under intensive grazing management. The average production is 5,500 kilos (12,199 lbs) of milk in a 305 day lactation with no fed concentrates in the summer. Cows are dried off in the fall and kept in the barn from October through April because of snow and the danger of avalanche. Their basic ration is hay, sometimes haylage. Only high-producing cows get up to 5 lbs. of concentrates daily and then only for the six weeks leading up to their AI breeding. Most calving and breeding occur in winter.

In May the cows are turned out onto lush pastures at 2,500 feet. In June they are moved to high (and extremely steep) pastures at an average elevation of 8,000 feet. Daily temperatures often swing from below freezing to high above 80 degrees. Grazing ski slopes, the cattle are so removed from any town that the herdsmen actually stay with the cows for the entire three months and make the cheese on the spot. Tarentaise are the only cattle in Europe hardy enough to graze this region profitably. Climbing at these altitudes is what makes their remarkable natural muscling and marbling, as well as endowing the breed with a very robust cardiovascular system. This contributes to their inherent high resistance to the common respiratory/shipping disease complexes found in North America.

The first Tarentaise in North America were imported to Canada in 1972. A year later they were introduced to the U.S. beginning in the northern plains states and spreading to all corners of the continent with outstanding performance. They are also used as dairy cattle in Equatorial Africa and the Indian sub-continent. Able to adapt from Alps to deserts, dry plains to humid coasts, Tarentaise will perform for you also."

I am still astounded at the concept of forty acres to feed a cow calf pair!! One would think they would walk themselves to death just getting a belly full?

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I missed this thread in May.

This would indeed be quite the accomplishment to get a cow that can raise 6 calves a year plus milk for the house - all on minimal input.

Pretty much violates the laws of physics or something. Normally when you have that much coming out of a cow, you have to put more into her. In addition, dairy cows lack muscle for a reason. Muscle takes more energy to maintain. More muscle, less energy for milk. So a beef cross cow will have higher maintenance requirements.

Don't know if Tex is around, but I'd like to know how you raise 6 calves a year. How long do you keep each one on the cow? And of course, their production drops the last half of lactation.

I had a lowline angus/jersey cross cow and took a gallon daily, and she raised her calf. I could see her raising one more, perhaps, but not 5 more, and she was on good pasture, not 40 acres per cow stuff, needing to "hustle".

He explained in Post#3. He puts 3 calves on a cow for 5 months, then pulls them to wean and puts 3 more on.

I also think people might be interpreting "minimal input" a bit more literally then what was intended- it seems to me that the goal was for an animal that would utilize the range he has better than the Jerseys, not that he wouldn't provide anything additional for them.