Breeding For a Homestead Dairy Cow

That was you experience Tex. Like G. Seddon said, chill out. I can tell you stories about the Angus I've dealt with.

The Highland cow my wife is sitting on basically jumped over a fence one day to help protect my wife from a wild Hereford cow. I won't know what she'll taste like because when the day comes she'll get a nice spot on the property for her final resting place as appreciation for being an outstanding producer and gentle loving pet. She's 16 years old, calved back every year, and has never had a vet out to so much as look at her. That's her daughter that our nephew is practicing his roping technique on.

I'm chilled. Hell, I never was upset. I just said that "I" have a hate on for them. I did counter that though, saying that every breed has their attributes. People have different needs though and often times, people tend to forget that every breed will not work well in every region or situation. I did find a good use for that cow though and she didn't go to waste.

We are ranchers, but we are also homesteaders. We do not make pets out of our livestock. They are here to work for us and make us money or food. If they can't do that, they don't stay. Even cattle we like get sold to slaughter or they get made into beef for ourselves when the time comes.

I have had to deal with rank cattle in just about every common breed and there has even been quite a few honkey Angus in that mix as well. Nowadays though, the first thing we cull replacement heifers for is attitude. There has been alot of times when we will send the best looking heifers we have down the road because they are high headed. Nine times out of ten, a rank cow will raise rank calves and we don't want them. It doesn't cost any more to feed a docile cow than it does one who has her head and tail both held high as she is chasing you down.

I wasn't saying people are wrong for raising anything. I was saying that one breed in particular is way wrong for me. If something works for someone in their situation, then it works.


Tex

Tex, think you might want to do a little bit more research on the Tarentaise breed. They are part of Kit Pharos breeding program in Colorado, and there are breeders in Wyoming.

Here is what is on the Pharo Cattle Companys website along with the breeds they use.

Red Angus, Black Angus, Hereford, Tarentaise and Composites of these breeds. These are all moderate sized, low-maintenance breeds of cattle with extremely strong maternal traits.

Tarentaise is a Continental breed that originated in the French Alps. They are noted for their fertility, milk production, meat to bone ratio, and excellent udder conformation. Compared to the British breeds, Tarentaise have a higher growth rate, higher milk production, and produce a leaner carcass. Compared to most of the other Continental (exotic) breeds, they excel in calving-ease and fertility, while having a smaller mature size. Tarentaise is the most moderate sized exotic breed that I know of. A Tarentaise-cross cow is extremely hard to fault.

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Barbara N.
Legend Rock Ranch ~ Texas
Dexter Breeder
www.legendrockranch.com

I did say I was going to give them some more thought. What I said about them being kept in barns in France was taken from the tope site you linked to. I haven't looked at the second link yet.

They may be what I am looking for, but I would need to do quite a bit more research before I make that determination. Whenever I am trying to figure out something such as this, I will usually disregard most of what the breeders websites have to say and go and visit with the people who are actually using the cattle. The websites for breeders are just about like websites for everything else that is being sold. You can get the basics and they willl tell you why you should buy that product, but they never give you the negatives. Speaking with the people who are running cattle under similar conditions, or with similar goals, a person can usually get the lowdown. That is how I decided on the Shorthorn as a basis for this project.

It is good to know there are people running them so close though. I am interested in them for sure. Now I just need to figure out a few things to see how interested I am. Thanks.


Tex

When looking for Jersey semen to use in your breeding program, consider the New Zealand Jersey bulls. The cattle there are bred for grassfed operations. Their Jerseys tend to be smaller with more body capacity. They are moderate producers on pasture/hay without the need for high grain feeding to maintain body weight.

You won't find the bulls listed with any of the big US semen distributors, but the company name is LIC New Zealand, and they have a couple of sales reps in this country. The semen is shipped out of Minnesota, and the shipping charges can be a big negative factor if you just have a small order.

I've just placed an order for 4 different bulls from LIC. They are all negative stature (produce smaller daughters) and A2A2 beta casein. In my case, I'm breeding for a smaller thrifty Jersey that can handle the desert heat here in southern AZ while feeding mostly hay,and a little grain at milking.

We'll see how it goes.

Good luck on that, Mary. Please let me know what you think of it when you are able to start seeing results. Had I known about that, I would have given this route a very serious look. I ended up going through Accelerated Genetics and bought ten straws of sexed semen. The minimum order was five straws, so I got five each from two different bulls that met my criteria. Having know about your information sooner though, I would have probably done things a little differently.

Can you get sexed semen from the outfit selling the Aussie semen? What is their minimum order? Are the prices bearable?


Tex

They have 5 bulls available with sexed semen in the U.S. I found the prices quite reasonable compared to what Select Sires is going for down here.
The regular straws were $14 - 16.50 and the sexed semen I ordered was $38 each. The killer was the shipping charge to AZ. I do a little A.I. for some backyard milkers here in Tucson, so I ordered 20 straws. But there was no minimum order requirement.

So the guy doesn't like Highlanders. So what? Why is it that in today's society people get so "offended" when someone has the nerve to state their opinion? Stop blaming others for your emotional frailty. I happen to like Highlanders. That someone else doesn't, isn't the end of my world or even enough to ruin my day. If I'm honest I can readily admit that some Highlanders are terrible to work with. I've seen them. I wouldn't have an Angus on the place myself. Again, so what?

Tex-

What started out as an interesting thread about selecting for your needs and environment abruptly went down the tubes with your post about the Highland. I think all of us here readily accept that there are breeds we prefer and those that we don’t, as well as the fact that there are individual animals in all breeds that have bad temperaments.

Illustrating your negative post about the Highland with a photo of the cow bleeding out on the ground was a bit over the top. I think everyone on this board understands where beef comes from, but to me, it’s quite obvious that you had a bad experience with this animal and got even.

When you state that you “will get flamed for this and I am very likely to tick a few people off,” don’t be surprised when it happens.

So anyway...

The Shorthorn has had her first calf and the Angus in the pics is raising her second or third calf. I bought some of the scratch off type heat detection patches that ho between the tailhead and point of the hips and both cows have been isolated together on good hay and feed. I was turning them out in the yard around the barns during the day and bringing them in each night.

These cows had never seen each other until I put them together and I noticed they weren't grazing anywhere close to one another. Seeing that, I started keeping them kept up in the corral atleast until I saw them riding one another. It has been over a month though and Neither one has ridden the other to indicate a heat.

I've asked a neighbor who does alot of AI and he couldn't think of what might be going on and now I'm trying to come up with alternatives. We have a couple of young new bulls we just picked up in the other corrals, so I am going to move both cows down thhere today and put them into the pen next to the bulls. It will drive the bulls nuts, but I can't think of much else to try at this point. Sexed semen is not always as fertile, so I have been warned that inducing a heat may be counter productive.

I am open to suggestions on this one.


Tex

Have you ever thought about dexters?

As far as incorporating them into my little crossbreeding experiment?


Tex

Just as they are usually everything you need in a homestead dairy cow

I know alot of people feel that way, but I tend to disagree. Dexters work for some people, but I haven't seen their advantage out here for what I'm trying to do. There are a few people around here who have them, but several of them have told me there are different aspects they wish their Dexters were better at.

The ultimate goal is to produce a cow that has the smaller frame size and temperament of a Jersey, while having the heavier bone structure of a Shorthorn and a thick hide like the Brown Swiss. I am not interested in having production like a Holstein, but I do want them to be capable of raising six calves a year, while also meeting all of the dairy needs for the house.

A person could probably find a cow that meets that criteria, but now for the kicker. I want one that can do that in this region and area. We are high and dry here and most dairy breeds are not used to hustling. I do a very good job of feeding and taking care of animals, but I am trying to end up with an animal that can do that on minimal input. It takes alot of gumption on the part of a cow to get out and hustle in this region and most have to be bred for it, atleast somewhat.

A cow should not be more trouble than they are worth, but in this area, a dairy type cow can lead to alot of work. I have tried different breeds and had better luck with some than others. Then there are other breeds that cause me to listen to folks who have raised them in this area. I am not trying to develop a multipurpose cow, but rather one that can do a particular job well in this area.


Tex

I think that it's a sad day when people feel that sensoring the truth is preferable to discussing the hard realities of life.

No one is being censored here, not at the moment.

Homesteading Today has the "Be Nice" rule though, lets not forget that.
Is saying you "hate" a breed of cattle and then posting graphic pics like that considered being nice?
Probably not to a lot of people.
I am letting it stand because this is about cattle.
They are meat animals and we have had worse pics than that here.
Please watch the cursing too.

To the OP:
Good luck in your quest for the perfect hardy dairy cow.
In my experience you sacrifice a lot of the "hustle" for pounds of milk.
A cow who is out scrounging feed has less time or energy left to make all that milk.
If it was easily bred for in a few generations I think we would have that breed already.

Just my opinion, obviously.

__________________
Cows may not be smarter than People, but some cows are smarter than some people.

That breed is already here for many different regions of the country. We have many different breeds available for folks to choose from and there is something out there for everybody.

This region of the country is a little different though. There has been a long gap between alot of the original homesteaders who helped to settle this region and the people who are homesteading in this region today.

Way back when, the homesteading allotments for people in this region were just big enough for people to think they were getting something and then wind up starving. If a family was not fortunate enough to file a claim on a good water source, they usually starved or droughted out in very short order. The people who were able to prove up, breeding up a good strain of milk cow was the farthest thing from their mind and they just made do while they worked to improve their ranches.

It hasn't been until recently when the demands for energy have increased so much and outside people were drawn to this area for jobs that the homesteading mindset has taken hold again. Now we have people buying 40 and 80 acre ranchettes and they want nothing more than to try to be self sufficient while they are working at their job to pay for their place.

Most of these people do not have the time, space nor inclination to try and improve on what works well in other areas, eventhough it does lack in this area. This region of the country has never been known as a dairy mecca and alot of times a tame range cow was what was used for a family's milk needs. That is all changing in the recent past though and people are looking for something that will work for here.

A 40 or 80 acre spot is not nearly enough land to try and raise a small herd of beef animals as well as use the land for other stock too. One good milk cow though can utilize that land very efficiently while raising enough extra calves for a family's beef needs and also some to sell. That is what I am going for.

It may not work, but I won't know until I try. As I said though, the homesteading and self sufficiency thing is a recent development for this region. Before this movement took hold here, all of the land outside of the towns belonged to big ranches. Now alot of those ranches are being divided up and that is where these people are moving to.

I am looking at alot of different avenues to try and make this work and there is no telling what may get thrown into the mix. I'm not looking for a multi purpose animal though as that is not the end goal. What little bit of beef influence I plan to add will come from cattle born and raised in this region.

On a different note...
My wife and I do this sort of stuff for a living. We don't run a hobby farm. This is not our weekend get away. We do this day in and day out to take care of ourselves as well as our extended families. I am not a sensitive person and I call things like I see them.

If my pictures of dead and hanging beef offend people, it may be wise to have me removed from the board or just avoid my threads. I do my very best to help people and educate them as to what actually goes on around a ranch and a homestead. I try to take alot of pictures whenever something is going on so that I may share them with others. Sometimes these pictures and the stories they tell are not pleasant, but they are what actually goes on.

We had the butcher out again yesterday and I have several pictures of the process from start to finish. I also have a picture story of gelding horses. If you see a thread with "Branding" in the title, avoid that one too. This is not a petting zoo around here and things are done a certain way for a reason. I am always trying to learn something, but I have been doing this stuff for a long time and I enjoy sharing what little bit of knowledge I have.

If someone wonders why I feel the way I do about something, or they wonder why I do something a certain way, ask me. And trust me, when I have a question about someone else's preferred methods or their reasons for something, I will ask.


Tex

I wish you well with your project, although I think that you might be asking for a bit much, especially with the milk production that you're looking for. I don't think that there's any getting around the fact that you need lots of quality feed and/or forage to produce lots of milk. Remember that the Longhorns developed pretty much on their own to survive poor conditions. They produced meat simply because they are a large animal, but they were not efficient at it, and their milk production was just enough to raise a calf. All of the so-called dual purpose "heritage" breeds almost died out simply because they do not do either job well. A good dairy type body is very different from a good beef type body. Mix the two and you don't magically get an animal that is better at both, you get one which gives you some of each, but it will not be an optimal producer of either. I'm sure that you know all of this, I'm just posting because there are a lot of gullible people who swallow the ALBC propaganda that the "heritage" breeds will be the savior of us all. There is a reason that they lost favor, and it's simply that they are not productive. You can't pencil nostalgia into the bottom line.

Thank you for that. I have been saying the same thing for quite a while. 200 year old genetics are just that, 200 years old. In the last 100 years or so, there have been alot of advancements in cattle genetics and that is why we enjoy a bunch of the traits we have today. I can't think of anything one of the heritage breeds can do that another breed can't do better. The advancements that have been made were done for a reason by people who actualy used those cattle to make a living.

I understand what you are trying to say about feed and milk production and you are right. My animals still get fed and well cared for as I don't just expect to turn them out to fend for themselves. Along with what I have listed previously, heartiness is a major trait that I am going for. I want something that can utilize what is here and be able to navigate a little rougher ground and terrain.

We had a Jersey that got a back leg into a foxhole and then waited there for me to come and pull her out with the feed truck. There is what is considered a river in Wyoming, right behind the house. One of Jerseys decided to cross it one time on a gravel bar. She drowned in literally six inches of water.don't ask me how that one happened, because I still haven't figured it out. Our grass here is tough, but it's strong. I have seen those girls standing belly deep in good graze refusing to eat it.

When you start expecting more from an animal, it only makes sense that you will have to increase your input somewhat. That being said though, that animal should atleast be trying to do for itself. I have not seen any of the dairy breeds that will do that. Some will to an extent, but the dairy cattle in this country today are derived from those on the bigger dairies and almost all of those are fed every bite they eat. Thank goodness we have those dairies in operation, but they have bred out alot of desirable traits. Don't get me wrong, they have made some major improvements, but traits like teat length and heartiness have fallen by the wayside.

Tex

Hi, I know it has been a few days since this thread, but we raise Brown Swiss. Great cows, big though. They are really hard to breed using a bull, they just don't take. AI is a much better option. I don't know if your 3/4 will have any problems.