Here in Humboldt county, California, we have laws/restrictions at least as prohibitive as WV...a grade A organic dairy in Del Norte county north of us on the Oregon border had a milk share program and a consumer contracted a life threatening case of listeriosis. That being said, I drink our goats milk raw all the time. I love Oregons common sense laws that allow small holdings to sell from farm...Jeffersonian in practice? A well informed public, blah blah blah? Know where your food is coming from....but drink raw at your own risk?

I know of no pasteurized milk that will last 30 days in the fridge. Most of it smells quite repulsive to me when "fresh", (ie full of dead decomposing bacteria) Raw milk in a clean jar with little air space can, and will. Heck, I just ate some unpasteurized milk that was about six months old on my sandwich, and I feel fine. Brave heroes from the USDA please save us, (if you're not to busy depopulating animals that aren't sick) The information you seek is readily available from credible sources. It is not my job to research raw milk for anyone. That is each persons own responsibility. I will say that it would be wise to introduce your body to raw milk slowly and in small quantities, just like anything. At risk of not being credible, I know a guy, whose name I will keep secret, (to protect him from government flunkies) who retired from a sewer treatment plant. When guys first came to work, they got sick all of the time. A lot of them quit because of it. But the ones who stayed on, reached a point that they never got sick, period. If someone gets sick from raw milk, even poorly handled raw milk, it is not the milk's fault. It is because they have a substandard immune system. The best way to foster a substandard immune system is to eat sterile foods. Works great until that one bacteria shows up to the party. I prefer to populate my intestines with good and bad bacteria, and be part of the fight between good and evil. As far as the government, and their self validating research, they can pry my raw milk from my cold dead intestines.

On one hand, raw milk is so pure that t stays fresh for a month, then it has such a bacterial load as to sicken most people that haven't built up, what you say is a resistance to bacteria.
I've said it many times, but I'll repeat myself. I have no opposition to anyone drinking the milk from their livestock. But when you throw bacterial laden raw milk into the open market, you tarnish the reputation of milk in general and needless hurt many familiy farms.
But since you hate government, I thought I's share what a few slackers and flunkies have been doing. I'm sure you won't approve:
Scientists at the U.S. Department of Agriculture's main animal-disease research facility in collaboration with scientists around the world have intensified their efforts to find ways to curb the spread of deadly African swine fever (ASF).

African swine fever is a contagious viral disease present in domestic and wild swine. The disease is transmitted by ticks moving from sick to healthy animals, by garbage containing infected meat, and on the clothing of people moving between farms. Symptoms are high fever, shock and hemorrhaging lesions. The disease kills pigs within a week of infection and has no treatment or vaccine. It does not pose a threat to humans.

Led by USDA microbiologist Manuel Borca, researchers at the Plum Island Animal Disease Center in Orient Point, New York, are working to develop experimental vaccines with the hope that some might lead to a vaccine that can be used to control African swine fever. They also work to better understand the disease's cause and immune response, Borca said. Plum Island is a former military facility 2.4 kilometers off Long Island run by the Department of Homeland Security. With additional support from the State Department's Biosecurity Engagement Program, USDA scientists at the facility tackle other dangerous diseases like foot-and-mouth that threaten livestock health and world economies.

Lots more facts about raw milk in the General Discussion section, titled Raw Milk, don't read if you don't want to know

Do you work at a diary or in the diary industry?

No, do you?:kiss:

To think that raw milk is without danger is foolish. To think that USDA Grade A Pasteurized milk is safe is even more foolish.

I do hope that Pottenger's cat doesn't have your tongue.

I apologize for citing a supposedly disreputable source as a case against pasteurization. So here is my second attempt. :)

milk/http://www.realmilk.com/health/raw-m...teurized-milk/

or
http://www.healthiertalk.com/got-real-milk-1695

or
http://www.draxe.com/video/pasteuriz...tion-raw-milk/

or
http://metabolichealing.com/educatio...genized-dairy/

or

The opposing view, which you may notice is a .gov site full of scare tactics and a bit of dishonesty at best.
http://www.cdc.gov/foodsafety/rawmil...wers.html#hurt

They sell raw milk in vending machines in Europe, they will all be dead soon. Meanwhile here in the States, the FDA attacks raw milk, it's perfectly legal to sell Ritalin, Mad Dog 20-20, and Marlboro Reds. Meanwhile the USDA is playing with an African pig virus not far from where European Starlings were introduced and China is cleared for bringing in Pork. Fantastic. The CDC says that Fukushima is no big deal, but you might want some potassium Iodine tablets on hand, but whatever you do, don't drink raw milk. Did you ever consider that those above average U.S. numbers on raw milk attributable illnesses are skewed because of the high prevalence of immigrants that don't have access to refrigeration technology, but really like raw milk, any way they can get it? (yet another reason we need amnesty, raw milk statistics.) (I had to endure a lot of government authority chest thumping for that little gem!)

All I know is I can drink raw milk from my goats without it bothering me. The stuff from the store, not so much. It sends me to the bathroom in less than half an hour most times.

Interesting thread. We milk our family Jersey cow and have for the last three years.

Had our own dairy goats before and are considering getting some again. Used their milk raw here at the time with no problems.

If I am unable to drink and use raw milk, I would rather do without than trust the store bought milk. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.:happy:

No.

My mistake. You appeared to be very invested in the commercial milk perspective.

I know in Arkansas the legislation is unfairly biased in favor of commercial producers to the point of making it impossible for the little guy to earn a living trying to sell anything, milk, meat etc,, off the farm.

A nice piece highlighting agenda driven policy: http://thecompletepatient.com/articl...ng-food-safety

There really needs to be three categories to get real statistics, raw milk, commercial raw milk, and pasteurized. Add in the government's new statistical data generating model and it's easy to see where they get those crazy numbers. And if they really cared about food safety, they would send a nuclear warhead to Plum Island before something from a Steven King novel becomes reality.

Pasteurization was started to kill off the bad things that could make a person sick. And this has been used in many items besides milk. It IS a good thing.

In Michigan, the government has been trying to make it easier for farmers, large and small. Recently, they allowed some canned foods and baked goods to be siold, without the requirement lof an inspected kitchen. Just have to let consumers know where it came from. It is a harder balance than most understand. Protect consumers while cutting needless regulations or restrictions. Mostly the government stays out of the way for stuff you consume that you grew. Most folks have figured out ways to get around the laws. Herd shares is one way to avoid the ban on the sale of raw milk. In Michigan, the goverenment has officially accepted that scam. Because if you get sick from your own cow, the public food supply is still protected. Same for meat. Illegal to sell a farm killed beef, but if you and three others own it, you can butcher it anywhere, anyhow and have no one to complain about. So, illegal to sell the meat, legal to sell the live cow to four people and deliver THEIR cow to the slaughterhouse.
It is a common thread on Homesteadingtoday, that the government helps the big farmers but not the small farms; Then in the same breath, announce that they burn their USDA censis, don't visit their Soil Conservation Service, Extension Service or Department of Agriculture. Can't have it both ways, folks.
Don't get the idea that the focus is large farms. I think the average number of cattle on a beef farm in Michigan is about a dozen.
In most cases it isn't the government holding back the small farmer, it is a lack of salesmanship and imagination.

And now that we changed so many things in the last hundred years, it is not always needed. We have refrigeration(bulk tanks), sanitation, Stainless steel, better herd health, elimination of diseases and knowledge. This is most of the main reasons that they started pasteurization, and one other reason was man was starting to get greedy and trying to alter milk before it was sold, people were putting chalk in milk to make it look white after the butterfat had been taken out. Many other reasons they used pasteurization, but I think you get the idea. I am not say pasteurization is all bad, like I have said many times before, everyone has the right to choose. > Thanks Marc :hrm:

Pasteurization does not reduce the vitamins and minerals in milk. Lots of peer reviewed studies over the years have proved this.
Healthy looking, well cared for cows can carry a variety of disease bacteria that goes into the milk. Most illnesses caused by drinking raw milk came from healthy looking cows.
It is impractical to test for every bacteria or virus every day to insure that day's milk is safe.
To believe otherwise is to deny the truth.

Does pasteurization affect enzymes? Does it affect the solubility of vitamins and minerals? How does the presence of bacteria prove that milk is not safe? How do you know that milk that has had it's bacteria killed, won't become re-contaminated? Are bottling plants devoid of all bacteria? How would one go about pasteurizing waxed cardboard?

All good questions for an expert on pasteurization.

I once had a milker come down with Listeriosis. This is one of the scary ones, right? She was clinically diagnosed by a licensed vet. After she was successfully treated, (one of her herdmates was not so lucky), due to the nature of the disease, she should still be shedding listeria. I continued to drink her milk. Raw. After talking to doctors, and vets, it became obvious that since I was drinking her milk raw before she showed signs, and since I was playing in the same dirt and hay and grain that she was, I was already exposed. As was every other milker in the barn. No point in not drinking it, if I fed it to my chickens, they would just give me Listeria in a sunny side up egg. Should I sell it to someone who has never eaten a single bite of food that didn't come out of a plastic wrapper? Absolutely not. Should it be legal to sell to someone who, like me was aware of the risk? Raw milk is not dangerous, just because it is raw. There are many other factors that determine it's inherent danger. Pooled milk, improperly handled milk, and milk that the consumer isn't acclimated to is dangerous, raw or not.

Remember, your wholesome, grassfed, locavore, herdshare statistics are being lumped in with this phenomenon. : http://www.ext.colostate.edu/safefoo.../v14n1s06.html

Behold, the dangers of raw milk, dumped into a tub with some fromunda culture.

Salesmanship and imagination are important.

So is finding a USDA processing plant. Those few that do exists are own by large processing companies and do not process for small farmers. The few that process for small farmers are scattered hundreds of miles part.

I can't imagine salesmanship overcoming that.

My understanding is that safety in milk became a problem when dairy cows were fed the leftover mash from distilleries and their gut flora was disrupted, causing outbreaks of bacterial infections.

There have been more salmonella outbreaks from pasteurized milk than raw milk in recent years:

http://www.realrawmilkfacts.com/PDFs...reak-table.pdf

Summary:
Between 1998 and 2010 there were 2824 total illness from pasteurized milk and milk products in the US, and 8 deaths.

Maybe relying on pasteurization instead of clean conditions at the dairy is not the most reliable way to maintain a safe food supply.

OK, you can't market your milk from your small dairy to a far away milk plant. I can't market my 5 tons of sugar beets at a far away sugar plant. Does that make the government evil? No. Chose one or a half dozen other things that you can make money doing. Get on the "buy local" band wagon. Promote your products, create your market.
Because of the extreme efficiencies of many big ag enterprises, you cannot compete in traditional market channels. So, you just need to use your imagination and salesmanship.
Time spent crying about your inability to compete, undermines your chances of success.

Over the past hundred years, there have been far more car crashes involving General Motors manufactured vehicles than there were crashes involving the Yugo. Therefore, the Yugo is far safer than any General Motors vehicle?
Same for the tiny slice of the market that raw milk represents.
Your understanding is incorrect. Healthy looking cows, fed high quality feed, can produce milk with several different pathogens. Read up on campylobacter, listeria, salmonella, and TB.

I see from the pro- raw milk web site, you offered, many illnesses from pasteurized milk involved processes that went on long after pasteurization . Sort of hard to blame pasteurization on contamination in the following cheese process. Agree?

After seeing a couple of Colorado cantaloupe farmers get convicted, fined, and jailed for their role in a listeria outbreak, I'm wondering why anyone would want to risk their farm, life savings, and freedom by selling raw milk.

This is true of any business; there will always be someone or something standing in the way of success. The one good thing about laws is there's always a loophole. The lawyers leave them in there on purpose so that they can bill hours when they argue the law in court. You just have to figure out what works; not everything will.

So Haypoint, you say that even properly cared for cows can spread disease. Likewise, I suppose even someone who washed his hands can get sick. Therefore, we should not wash our hands?

So are you against clean cows? Why is it that the only part of disease prevention you care about is pasteurization? Why not reduce crowding and stress, and improve cleanliness and feed them better?

The answer is usually a matter of economics. It is more economical to feed a lot of grain, and to crowd cattle and to let them lie in mud and manure, than to provide bedding. More economical to have high producing cattle with big udders that get more contaminated.

So, are you against clean cattle, or do you insist they be raised like this one near my folks:

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p...a/IMG_4283.jpg