No person ,animal or mammal of any kind needs milk after it is weaned. If you want it you have the right, but it is not necessary. Milk is only for babies.

I'm still learning about the cows, as we've only had them a few months, so not sure how testing will work there. I plan to test regularly just like the goats though. As far as the goats, The Johnes, Brucellosis, TB, CL, CAE, and several others can all be tested through blood. I simply submit a sample to the lab. Might testing be done during a dormant period? Sure, but wouldn't you agree that testing is better than not testing at all? As far as Mad cow, that has been strongly linked to cows eating the brain matter of other cows. Our cows come from a multi-generational line of strictly grass-fed cows, and we are pasture as well. Our cows get their protein from grass, not other cows (or chicken manure or any other animal protein). So no, I have no concerns about mad cow on my farm. I admit I don't have all the answers, but unless you want to just eliminate all livestock in the name of safety (or just all the stock not raised the way YOU like it), then I think this is another conversation where I am done.

Haypoint, I haven't figured out whether you are just cranky by nature or just towards my posts, but I get the impression sometimes that you follow me around this forum just to prove something. I'm not interested. I dare say a man of your seeming experience could help a lot of new folks on this forum if you could offer help with a bit more tact rather than attacking anything you disagree with. I am very comfortable with my research and our way of doing things. I have said multiple times I am no expert, and I am always learning. I have nothing to prove, and am not trying to change anyone else. I'd appreciate it if you'd offer me the same respect.

This topic has strong proponents and strong opponents, I doubt anyone is going to change their mind. Most of this has been hashed over long ago. Myths persist. When someone makes a statement that they feel safe because of this or that, I can't help but offer additional information that might make their choice less clear cut. Sorry if I sound cranky. I'm not picking on you for who you are, just responding to what I view as carelessness. I am trying to give useful information, even though I know it isn't welcome. Plus, many come here just to argue.
You say cows are purple, I'll disagree. You say your milk is safe because you operate a closed herd, but regularly expose your billy to other flocks. You seem to presume that an annual blood test insures your milk is safe. BSC (Mad Cow) is very rare, as far as we know, but caused the loss of a billion dollars to the American farmer. We now know that sheep tallow should not be fed to other mammals. Seems obvious now. What other farming practice that now seems normal will one day prove to be disastrous? You are new to cows. Perhaps, like me, you have much to learn. I'll share what I know, OK? But if you believe something that is factually incorrect, I'll likely respond. To me that is how we learn through discussion. Yes, a blood test is good, glad you got one done. Just don't think that they tested for everything or that it was conclusive. If someone told me they felt safe driving their car 200 miles an hour because they had NASCAR tires, I disagree and point out that there was a lot more to it than just tires.
Often this exchange of information detours to claims that big ag is filthy, small farms are perfect, and the government agencies that work hard to keep our food the safest in the world are just lazy bloodsuckers that we don't want or need.
Please go back and read the thread I started about the dangers of raw milk. It is in General Discussion, don't read if you don't want to know.

Thank you for claryifing, Haypoint. That is the biggest issue with online communication---it is difficult to determine the meaning behind someone's words. I welcome your experience in terms of educating.

I will, however, ask you to be cautious in claiming what is myth and what is not. As a biology and science major in college, I was taught the definition of "science" is "anything that can be measured." That simple fact is likely a basis for half the arguments we have on this board. Your research sources may be biased in one direction, while mine are biased in another. Some things cannot be easily measured due to all the variables involved. We know better than most how tests cannot catch everything. My 1st born had seizures for the first 8 months of life. He was a failure to thrive, doctor after doctor was clueless, and we are at wit's end. It's a long story, but through research and, we believe, divine intervention, we discovered it was our water. Nothing in particular showed up in the water test results, so we don't know what exactly caused his seizures, but once we switched our supply, his seizures just stopped, literally overnight. That began our long journey into learning about how foods and environment affect our health. And my, were our eyes opened! We did our best to review unbiased studies, and even found quite a few. We read everything we could get our hands on, talked to the "experts" in every field we could find, and attended seminar after seminar to learn. I may be inexperienced with much still to learn, but it certainly isn't for lack of trying! Just as a trained and professional veterinarian doesn't have 100% success with determining pregnancy or diagnosing illness, nor will we be accurate in every decision we make. I have already made mistakes that resulted in illness or death of my animals. However, I believe life in general is a matter of making educated decisions as best we can, then learning from our mistakes and the mistakes of others. In our case, due to a myriad of health issues, we decided to eliminate what toxins we could from our food and environment and introduce beneficial organisms as best we could. As Bible believers, we even went so far as to pull out scripture to determine what we believe God's original intent was for stewarding the land, raising our food, and getting back to the basics. Of course, I'm sure others will interpret the same scriptures in different ways, but we learned what we could, and still review continually. We have taken MANY steps in the direction we feel is best for our family, and our journey is far from over. I don't think our way will work for everyone, however, I do think that MANY of our modern day health problems would be reduced or eliminated if folks would educate themselves, and learn about the food they consume. I'm sure there will be some that still feel CAFO meat and pasteurized milk is the way to go. There will also be those who feel raw and grass-fed is the way to go. There are those who feel USDA inspected is safest, and those who feel "knowing your farmer" and his husbandry methods is the safest. I'm OK with that. As you said, once you begin educating yourself, you will likely make up your mind and it can't be easily changed. As I said, previously, though, sometimes we need to agree to disagree, not try to force what we believe to be "the only right way", and just respect each other's views. I think it's part of what makes our nation what it is.

Oh, I just wanted to clear up this confusion for the reputation of our farm. No, we do not expose our buck. We sold our bucks. We haven't purchased does in several years, we don't show, and our does are exposed to an outside buck once a year. We work with another breeder who has built her herd from reliable breeders who test their herds as well. She has never leased her buck to others, so he has only been exposed to her goats, and my goats. I don't have the desire or ability right now to permanently house a buck, so we do the best we can to protect our herd.

I have been gone for a few months, and the topics are still the same. The neigh sayers are still the same. The the ones who believe in raw milk are still right. Raw (real) milk is as safe to drink as your well water, and sometimes better. A lot of studies and statistics can and are doctored to make raw milk look bad. The CDC has now decided to change it`s studies in some states to make raw milk look worse than it is, in order to get legislation passed to limit the sale of raw milk in that certain state. One of the reasons I have been gone, is because I have been on a raw milk advisory board here in my state. The FDA does not like raw milk, and it is trying to make the sale of raw milk very hard to do in any state that will allow it to be done. We have done a lot in this state to open the eyes of our state Government as to the benefits to the sale of raw milk. I still stand by ideals that raw milk consumption is up to the public and not the Government. And the possibilities and likelihood of having contaminated milk is very, very slim. I also believe there are so many health benefits from raw milk, pasteurization does kill off all GOOD and bad germs. Most milk now days is only a by product, all the fat has been removed and all the good bacteria has been killed, you might just as well be drinking water. Also raw milk never spoils, it just changes form. On the other hand, pasteurized milk spoils, it will get rotten. So why did we start pasteurization?? It was when mankind started selling milk that was disease laden, and chalk was added too make it look whiter, among many other things. What have we changed? Disease control, sanitation, cooling, testing, equipment, feeding, to name a few. Can raw milk make you sick ? maybe, will it ? probably not. You are more likely to get sick from store vegetables than you are from raw milk. I know there will be a couple people on here that love to get in your face about raw milk, and the sale of it too the public, but they are the few. Don`t let a few spoil it for the many, just like our government does now, A very few speak for the majority. Is the same for raw milk. > Thanks Marc

I stopped entering this argument on this site a long time ago because the nay sayers are worse than fanatics. But, just had to say, we've been drinking raw milk at our house for many years with nothing but good results. As a parent, I would feed my children raw milk from a known good source or no milk at all. Processed milk is worse than no milk at all in my opinion.

I prefer raw milk. I know what is in it, and (more importantly) what is NOT in it.

That said, if someone prefers to purchase milk from the store, go for it.

Just don't try to legislate away my right to eat what I choose to eat.

I usually stay away from these threads but now I can speak from experience! ( I love my cow!) Y
It was with some trepidation that I drank my first glass of raw milk in many years. What if it was teeming with bacteria? I had been careful in cleaning her and me and cooled it quickly. I also looked high and low to get it tested with no go. I took the first drink. It was really good. I waited to see if I was going to get dysentary or some other horrible potty issue, nope. Actually, some weeks later it dawned on me that an issue I had had for years, was gone. To get it back, I only need to drink milk bought at the store. That was not something expected, cool beans! Did I say I love my cow?

I have read pros and cons on raw milk for years. I equate it to an informed decision, kind of like driving. Not 100% safe but lots that I can do personally to make it safer. I do not believe that milk that is pasteurized is 100% safe. It would take far more time than I have now to fully explain and suffice it to say, I think many of us are quite capable of making an informed decision as to what to feed ourselves and our families. Personally, I think children fed the typical diet, including a liberal dose of fast food, are in greater jeopardy of permanent harm, i.e. diabetes, than a child fed clean, raw milk.

I will also add that many years ago, the one time ds drank raw milk, he did get sick. The " friends" that brought it were rather large farmers. Wifey told me later they had had no problems with their milk, gosh no! Hubby told me yes, they had gone through an awful time, high bacteria counts, warnings from the milk plant, etc. It is in part because of that experience, lots of reading and other experiences that I am in favor of raw milk BUT knowing the source. To know your milk is dirty but it will be "ok" after processing, makes me grossed out.

Those concerned about milk safety should agree with you - if we just quit drinking milk, we could avoid the illnesses from raw and pasteurized milk. Sodas are much safer!

Perhaps now milk isn't critical, but you could say the same for any food.

There was a time when my northern European ancestors relied on milk for survival into adulthood. Which is why such a high percentage of that population have a gene to produce lactase as adults. Lactase is the enzyme that digests lactose, the milk sugar. In other populations like Chinese and Africans, lactase persistence into adulthood is rare, as they were not dependent on milk for survival.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence

Quote:

The presence of this gene is the cause of lactase persistence. Today, this haplotype can be found in 80% of Europeans and Americans of European ancestry. On the other hand, the percentage of the population who are lactase persistent in sub-Saharan Africa and Southeast Asia is very low. It is absent in the Bantu of South Africa and most Chinese populations.

Adult humans have been drinking milk for thousands of years, probably longer than humans have been cooking!

Visit - http://www.farmtoconsumer.org/raw_milk_map.htm

To see if your state allows the sale of raw milk.

Ridiculous, the "sterile" milk bought at the store doesn't compare with raw milk that contains the enzymes and active cultures for our bodies to digest it. There are so many people now with lactose intolerance. I have had milk from the store go "bad" in a few days but the raw milk I get from my neighbor, keeps a couple of weeks with no off smell or other signs of it going bad. In fact, if I want some soured milk for cooking, I just leave it out overnight..... try that with the so-called cleaner milk and you get some sort of rotten, fowl, junk that doesn't even resemble milk. What is it they are putting into the milk at the store these days?

no there is a middle ground. I worked at dairies. even went to school for herd management. My first Dairy was a small one in CA. 160 milking head. i could drink right from the tank and feel safe doing it. the largest I worked for was the largest in NC. 600 milking head. it was the cleanest in the area but I don't think I would drink from the tank. individual picked cow, yes, but not the tank.

I drink raw everyday from my own cow and I think if someone who wants to drink raw they should have that choice to do so. buy it if they want and do with it as they please. like meat, if you want it raw go for it at your own risk.

LOL - could you call my mother please? She has been struggling with weight for years and I have been trying to convince her that Milk is at the root of her problem. I don't have anything against it, I cook with it (mmmm gravy), and I drink one of those instant breakfast things each morning, we put it on our cereal or in our oatmeal.

But she drinks (by herself mind you) 5 GALLONS per week! She has finally cut back to 3 Gallons and thinks that is good enough. I have tried telling her that stuff is designed to take a cute little calf that is smaller than her dog and turn it into a large cow that can see over her cute little car in a very short time period - but it just isn't sinking in. I suspect she just suffers from "butt powder syndrom" which is that condition that causes you to never want to take advice from someone whose butt you once powdered. Maybe she will listen to you :-)

But the world doesn't work that way. Raw hamburger contaminated gets thrown out, along with a million pounds that was processed prior to the positive test. I guess you'd be OK with a label on that hamburger, " $1.00 a pound, Cook well"? Frankly, so would I. Consumers should expect to cook meat.
But raw milk isn't generally cooked, as hamburger is. So, in an ongoing effort to make our food supply as safe as possible, raw milk remains illegal to sell in many states. In most cases it is really a non issue. Those wanting to market raw milk wouldn't be able to come up to the grade A standards required for milk headed for pasteurization. My thoughts about milking for yourself is fine, but buying it from others or selling to others mirrors your feelings about drinking the milk from one cow is fine, but drinking from the 600 cow bulk tank not so safe.

moderation in all things. I happen to not like the taste of milk...never have.
But I realize some people do and that's fine. One thing I have noticed is that almost without exception, all my friends that I know of who have bulging discs, degenerative discs, or serious spinal issues , back problems, joint issues.....all are serious heavy duty milk drinkers....the store bought milk....not raw milk. Whether it would matter or not I don't know.
Even though I don't like milk straight up.....when I was a teenager I would use it almost everyday with cereal and recall that I was always hurting my back or it would seem to hurt easily. I finally quit the cereal with milk for breakfast and my back hasn't hurt for a long, long time .....now I'm in my 50's
Was curious if your mother has any back or joint issues.

Haypoint says "Those wanting to market raw milk wouldn't be able to come up to the grade A standards required for milk headed for pasteurization". You just need to visit Texas. We've got lots of grade A raw milk dairies licensed by the state.

http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.u...htm/HS.435.htm

there are many recipes for raw meat dishes. why should the government have a say i what i want to drink? they should be allowed to go as far as requiring a warning label.
the reason i said what i did about the 600 cow milk tank is that i want to know which cow my milk is coming from and that i myself watched it being milked. when you get 600 cow going though 3 times a day, milked by someone who is just a worker (not a owner) and doesn't care if the cow kicks off the milker while she is peeing...
it is about the lack of caring because it will be "cleaned up" at the creamery that keeps me from drinking from their tank. but if you go to a small dairy that cares, one that you have seen and feel comfortable with, you should be allowed to choose for yourself.

While the statute you provided is interesting, it does not detail the huge investment required to produce grade A milk. Regulations vary from state to state. But to construct a passable milking parlor, stainless plumbing, cleaning units, bulk tank, testing equipment, non-porous floors, walls and ceilings, etc. is often well beyond the scope of most homesteaders. So, in most cases, the legalization of the sale of Grade A raw milk would still be beyond the reach of most people.
Perhaps the demand for raw milk is higher because of the Hispanic population's taste for raw milk cheese, known nationally as bathtub cheese.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/16/nyregion/16milk.html?_r=0
http://www.turnto23.com/news/your-neighborhood/east-county/buyer-beware-of-bathtub-cheese

Yes she has all kinds of joint pain and alignment issues. But I don't know that I would blame it on milk other than it keeps her very fat which undoubtedly is hard on her joints. Also she refuses to go to a doctor, like ever, so nothing ever gets fixed. Her family had the crappiest genetics I have ever seen (bother her parents died in their 40's) and she has all kinds of issues besides joints. But I chalk it all up to genetics and then complete lack of trying to take care of any issues.

Actually, there are so many licensed grade A raw milk dairies in Texas that I gave up counting and there are many more that are not listed on this web site. Many are small dairies run by stay at home moms using a portable milker (I personally know them) and are very successful.

http://www.realmilk.com/real-milk-finder/texas/#tx

I guess Grade A milk standards are different in Texas.

Did you know that 78% of statistics are made up on the spot? LOL Seriously though, stats of illness leave out so much information. If 2 people have died in one decade "from drinking raw milk" then drinking raw milk is one of the safest activities of the decade!

Here's my take: raw milk is a gift from God, full of nutrients that are good for our bodies. When reasonable care is taken to ensure the health of the cattle and the cleanliness of the product, there should be no fear in consumption.
However...so much boils down to the immune system. It needs to condition itself to whatever the body eats on a regular basis. A city-bred person who gets fired up about raw milk will be fired up at the other end. I drank raw milk for years. One day I drank a quart of raw goats milk. 2 hours later I considered making out my will. Ease yourself into it and everything will be just fine.

And I must protest strongly against trading the benefits of raw for the "safety" of pasteurized milk. It's burning the house to be rid of the mice, people. Your body cannot absorb the few vitamins and nutrients that are left by the time the milk factory gets done with it. see, I'm citing a source, click here

And so I pass the soap box to the next passer-by. God Bless!

I remember being told by parents years ago this story about my brother who is 6 years older than me. He was very young, I think around 3 or 4 years old and came down with some kind of illness. Doctors were unable to help him and my mother was giving him store bought milk to no avail. My Dad found someone that had raw cows milk and they started giving him that and he got better. This was over 50 years ago and he is alive and well today.

Mercola? That's hilarious. Never any real scientific backing of any of their claims. Basically a very biased Oped.

http://online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-...share_facebook

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21875744

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...78C75O20110913

Whether you want to use real, raw milk or not is not the issue – the issue is do you believe American Citizens... WV citizens have the right to make food choices? Do you believe citizens have the right to co-own livestock and use their animals' products?

I know raw milk is a safe food when handled properly, like all other foods, but that is not the issue for me. Yes, It has been used for thousands of years, and our grandparents and great grandparents – people much healthier than we – know it is safe.

But can it become, like produce, meats and pasteurized dairy products, contaminated, as well?

Sure. Any food source or water source can.

The CDC's own data has proven raw milk is a low risk food. We consume high risk foods each day that the government makes no attempts to outlaw. Produce like spinach and tomatoes. Meats and seafoods – all higher risks foods than raw milk.

Think of the raw foods sold all over the state – served openly in restaurants like: Raw Oysters, raw fish in Sushi, Steak served tar-tar, rare hamburger. Eggs served over easy. . .All we see is a warning label telling us we consume this at our own risk. Our right to do so isn't circumvented.

When it comes to milk, it is?

Why?

This isn't a safety issue. This IS A FREEDOM ISSUE.

When citizens aren't even free to use a naturally occurring food source that has been used in civilized societies all over the world for thousands of years, there is a Freedom problem.

Our government allows (sad that we must speak in those terms) the citizens access to tobacco. Alcohol. Pharmaceuticals over the counter known to cause side effects and death. . .but WV's government says we, the citizens, aren't to be trusted with milk the FDA and AG Dept hasn't had a hand in.

Beyond that, WV is the only state that feels it has the power to tell the citizens that we cannot co-own a dairy animal herd and use our animals' products. If you want to co-own Jersey cows with me, fine, but you cannot co-own AND use the milk from your cow or the goats we both own.



You cannot give the milk away. If it means saving the life of a calf that needs the colostrum, you cannot give it away. If it means allowing a soap making access to have a local, humanely produced milk product for their milk soap – You cannot give it to the soap maker.

Basically, this boils down to NOT BEING Allowed to by pass the FDA and Dept of Agriculture. You are not able to cut ties with the hand they have in your milk, basically.

How is that freedom? You aren't allowed to have milk unless they approve your choice in milk and have a hand in the process – how long before this applies to many other aspects of the small farm community? If you believe only in local milk that is unpasteurized, you're out of luck.

How can the state of West Virginia tell us we cannot enter into a legally binding contract with someone and share a herd of cows. How do I have rights a man who doesn't have land to keep a dairy animal does NOT have? I have land, and so I am allowed by the state to use milk from my own cow. No one else. Based on current law, not even my family living here can use it. If you aren't lucky enough to have the land or time, you are denied a right I have. . .

Whether you want to use raw milk or milk of any kind is not the issue – whether you believe raw milk is safer than factory farmed pasteurized milk is not the issue. The issue is do you believe citizens have the right to make a decision about their diets on their own without government interference? Do you believe we have the right to co-own livestock and use our animals products?

This is a Control issue, folks. This is about having over the consumers, and this is pushing BIG Agriculture over the small, sustainable farms of WV. This is robbing hundreds of thousands of dollars of income from the struggling farms in WV.

Whether you want to use real, raw milk or not is not the issue – the issue is do you believe American Citizens have the right to make food choices? Do you believe citizens have the right to co-own livestock and use their animals' products?

I know raw milk is a safe food when handled properly from healthy animals, like all other foods, but that is not the main issue for me. Yes, It has been used for thousands of years, and our grandparents and great grandparents – people much healthier than we – know it is safe.

But can it become, like produce, meats and pasteurized dairy products, contaminated, as well?

Sure. Any food source or water source can. What? Ought we live in a bubble?

The CDC's own data has proven raw milk is a low risk food. We can pretend otherwise, of course.

But We consume high risk foods each day that the government makes no attempts to outlaw. Mass farmed and shipped Produce like spinach and tomatoes. Mass farmed Meats and seafoods at most grocery stores – all higher risks foods than raw milk that is from healthy animals and handled correctly.

Think of the raw foods sold all over the USA – served openly in restaurants like: Raw Oysters, raw fish in Sushi, Steak served tar-tar, rare hamburger. Eggs served over easy, eggs from filthy factories. . .All we see is a warning label telling us we consume this at our own risk. Our right to do so isn't circumvented.

When it comes to milk, it is?

Why? It isn't because it is surely dangerous. You delude yourself if you believe that. Too many far more risky things are quite legal.

One can come up with many reasonably arguments about exactly what is at play, but American health isn't the issue and the real concern here.

When citizens aren't even free to use a naturally occurring food source that has been used in civilized societies all over the world for thousands of years, there is a Freedom problem. That is fairly plain.

Our government allows (sad that we must speak in those terms) the citizens access to tobacco. Alcohol. Pharmaceuticals over the counter known to cause side effects and death. . .but ourgovernment says we, the citizens, aren't to be trusted with milk the FDA and AG Dept hasn't had a hand in.

Beyond that, my state that feels it has the power to tell the citizens that we cannot co-own a dairy animal herd and use our animals' products. Where do we live again?

You cannot give the milk away here. If it means saving the life of a calf that needs the colostrum, you cannot give it away. If it means allowing a soap making access to have a local, humanely produced milk product for their milk soap – You cannot give it to the soap maker.

Basically, this boils down to NOT BEING Allowed to by-pass the FDA and Dept of Agriculture. You are not able to cut ties with the hand they have in your milk, basically.

How is that freedom? You aren't allowed to have milk unless they approve your choice in milk and have a hand in the process – how long before this applies to many other aspects of the small farm community? If you believe only in local milk that is unpasteurized, you're out of luck.

If you aren't lucky enough to have the land or time, you are denied a right to decide if your milk is raw or pasteurized in too many states. For me, that is the real issue -

I could care even less than less if you feel raw milk isn't safe. I roll my eyes at that theory, as you roll your eyes at mine, but HOW can homesteaders argue against the CHOICE?

Whether you want to use raw milk or milk of any kind is not the issue – whether you believe raw milk is safer than factory farmed pasteurized milk is not the issue. The issue is do you believe citizens have the right to make a decision about their diets on their own without government interference? Do you believe we have the right to co-own livestock and use our animals products?

This is a Control issue, folks. This is about having over the consumers, and this is pushing BIG Agriculture over the small farms.

<standing ovation for Creamers> http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/ima...ilies/clap.gif

Egg-zackly. :bow:

Herd shares or co-ownership is a way to avoid the law. Apparently in WV, they aren't going for it. In Michigan they have ignored it and recently officially allowed herd shares.
I do not believe it is a control issue. I do know that healthy looking cows can produce milk with campylobacter and that makes people very sick. I know that very careful milkers in clean looking milking parlors can contaminate milk. I know that Food Inspectors test milk, meat and spinach. It gets pulled off the shelves and massive recalls result.
Most of our grand parents and great grand parents were not healthier than us. Probably not as dern fat, but they dropped dead of all sorts of diseases, way younger than us. I think we have short memories about how unsafe food once was.

Since this is still quite civil, :) would like to add, we as posters won'ttpersuade the "other side" as it is a pretty divisive topic. What it does do is help those reading and gathering info, many of whom don't post. I read many of these threads in my research along with some technical papers, some of which were provided as links, long before I'd venture a post.
As I have posted many times, was taught in FFA that the best way to debate is to know the other side and the objections and rebuttals that will surely come, no matter the topic. The objections to raw milk are pretty much the same as what I was reading twenty years ago. There are smart and savvy people on both sides of this issue and so it is important to put the info out there for those trying to decide. As there is also a dollar factor in this issue, not just facts about bacteria and cultures, there will continue to be debates.
So, that said, carry on! Sorry for the lengthy post......

I liked your post. But I have to take exception to a bit of it. As someone has pointed out, Mercola is a quack. Please use information that isn't so poorly collected. I assume it is his site that misinformed you about the vitamin's and minerals in milk. There have been numerous studies that prove pasteurization does not damage vitamins or minerals or the ability of the body to absorb it. homogenization may increase the body's ability to absorb milk fat, but that's a story for another day. Stats for raw milk related illnesses are a tricky thing to understand. Here's why.
Lets say I drank some raw milk a week ago (Wednesday) On Thursday, I'm a bit uncomfortable. Friday, I'm sick and call my Doctor. I get a Tuesday appointment. Sunday night, I'm real sick, but the clinic is closed. I think I have the flu. Tuesday, I'm feeling better, but go to the doctor. He finds nothing, but asks me to fill out a list of all the places I ate and what I ate over the past few days. For 99.9% of the cases, this is as far as it goes. But this rare time, I continue to be sick. In those rare .1% cases, it gets turned over to the local Health Department. The Health Department thinks it is some sort of food poisoning. But, by now, my digestive system is flushed out and no samples are available. But in this rare case, probably one in a thousand, I saved a stool sample. They decide that it is important, or they are having a slow week, they get the Lab to test it. They isolate campylobacter. They isolate a specific strain of campylobacter. Next they swab the kitchens of every place I ate since last Wednesday. By this time, my jug of milk is long gone, rinsed out and waiting for the next time I go to Farmer Brown's dairy. But, this is a rare event, maybe one in a thousand. I still have some milk left. It gets tested and the Lab proves it is the same strain of campylobacter that made me sick. So off to the dairy. By now, their bulk tank has been cleaned 20 times since my milk was drawn off. They take samples but they come back negative. So there is no proof raw milk made me sick. So, you see, there can be 10,000 illnesses from raw milk and none proven. The ones that end up in the statistics are the ones with larger groups of sick people, and an ongoing problem at the dairy.
Big Business isn't against raw milk because you take their business. Raw milk sales, where it is legal is far less than 1%. They don't like raw milk sales because every time a group of folks get sick from raw milk, people stop buying all milk. That hurts their reputation and their sales. In states that they have been able to put the health risk burden on raw milk producers and make it so very clear to the consumers of the risk, so the public is clear that pasteurized milk is still safe, some sort of legalization is happening.

While I agree drinking milk from a 600 cow bulk tank wouldn`t be my best advice. Some of us that do sell raw milk are Grade A standard, at least I was before we stopped selling milk to the processing plant. Inspectors will not set foot on a raw milk dairy in Illinois, we don`t exist in their minds. I know there are alot of small dairies that can`t make standards and that is a shame, but I`m still not saying that their milk is of any less value. It all boils down to choice, and that is what America was built on. > Thanks Marc :goodjob:

Hear! Hear!!

I've just learned to ignore the govt trolls on the board. It's sad, though...

And ;like it or not America is also a Land Of Laws. Without them you have lawlessness. And that we can not have is people getting sick or injured because some fe3el it is their right not to follow laws of the land.

That is true, and raw milk is legal in Illinois, as it is in many states. :rock:

I think one of the big points that gets missed in this debate is that raw milk has good bacteria in it, and that good bacteria keeps out bad bacteria. I can expect a 30 day shelf life on properly handled raw milk, can't do that with the poisonized stuff. The silly statistics about illnesses caused by raw milk are cooked up by agenda driven, government flunkies who find a jar of raw milk and say, "AHA! now we know why these people got sick" and ignore the McDonalds bag in the same fridge. Then they run tests at most likely the same lab that the aforementioned government flunky lab worker found an unexplainable cow sample with TB. I know someone who sent in a sample of store bought pasteurized milk to get tested. It had all kinds of horrible things in it, when they tried to bring this to light all of the information got lost on the desk of some brave protector of food. If the folks from the Unwise Scientists Destroying Agriculture club want to do something to insure food safety they should quit wasting time attacking raw milk and go hold a Geiger counter over some seafood entering port on the west coast for a while.

Well, there's "legal" and then there's legal...

In Illinois, you have to be careful to whom you sell, and you have to make sure that your customers bring their own containers and fill their own containers AT YOUR FARM.

Again, however, I must reiterate that the govt has no business in business. If someone is selling bad milk, they will not have any business.

Unless, of course, they're a big corporation like Dean Foods or an egg factory or a chicken factory. Then they can sell whatever they want.

Funny how that works.... :hohum:

Please identify for me the good bacteria that attack the bad. Please don’t use Dr Mercola’s ”data”. While you are at it, tell me which vitamins and minerals that are "lost/killed" in standard run of the mill pasteurization.
I think most folks drinking raw milk from their own cow will not support your belief in a 30 day shelf life, unless it is kept very, very cold. As will pasteurized milk.
The raw milk and the data is not cooked up. The Laboratories that run the tests can and must be able to match the type and strain of the bacteria in the sick person to the type and strain in the milk. In fact most cases of bacterial infection from raw milk are not blamed on raw milk because it cannot be traced back to the milk if the milk is gone. To think that the Scientists are making wild guesses about the source shows a lack of understanding of the testing process.
Explain about the flunky and the TB sample. There are at least three different TB tests. Each has different levels of cost and accuracy. The caudle fold test is most common and is about 80% accurate. So a Vet can expect some false positive, or suspect results. A second, more accurate and more costly is then done.
I have to toss out stories that start out with, “ I knew a guy…..” as hearsay.
You have no understanding of the food and animals, imported and domestic, that the government inspects and the threats to our food chain that are stopped, every day, in this country.