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Cattle For Those Who Like To Have A Cow.


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  #21  
Old 08/21/13, 10:36 PM
Otter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Oxford, Ark
Posts: 4,471
I am not a breeder, I am a homesteader, and my livestock and garden keep us off foodstamps.

If you feel that you can afford to take a $400 dollar loss on every heifer calf that your cow has, good for you! I am too poor for that, so were I going shopping for a fad breed of cow like a Dexter, I'd do whatever it took to get one with papers, so that my one cow could put milk in the pail, beef in the freezer AND money on my pocket.

But, if you'd rather take the loss, and sell your calf for whatever runty black heifers are going for at the sale barn, then do that. It's your cow, and your money.
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  #22  
Old 08/22/13, 05:48 AM
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 452
I would suggest if you don't want pay for an animal with papers, that you look for a grown cow and not a calf. One of the advantages of a registered animal is you have an idea (not a guarantee) of how they will turn out.
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  #23  
Old 08/22/13, 06:44 AM
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Michigan
Posts: 316
Quote:
Originally Posted by krebolj View Post
I appreciate your opinions as just that- breeders. I do not want to be a breeder, I do not want a breeding herd; I want to be a person with a cow that fits on my property and provides milk, I want to be a person who butchers the calves and eats them. I don't want to better the breed; I want to eat and feed my family healthy food. If the breed suffers from my one cow not providing a registered calf every year, compared to the many breeders with numerous head of cattle providing nice registered calves yearly then something is very wrong.

Like it or not you're going to be a "breeder", unless you're just going to put the cow out on pasture and look at her. Maybe not on the scale as some of us, but as Otter said there is value in registration of the heifer offspring of a registered cow and registered sire. Maybe not so much in bulls, but as I said trade your 4 month old registered heifer for a 12 month old steer or bull calf from another farm. You've cut 8 months off your feed bill, and the breeder of registered stock has added a nice heifer that they can use to increase their herd or as a replacement to the older animals that either are approaching or past breeding age and no longer productive. Multiply the additional value of the calf by 12 or 15 calves in the lifetime of the cow and it's not a small amount of money.

KarenP is also correct. As a calf out of ???? parents and pedigree/breed, you will have a much better idea what you're getting with a mature animal. Even Dexters have significant variances between the animals, with some coming from more milk lines than others. Purchasing from a responsible breeder who is knowledgeable will possibly save you a lot of headaches, and they will likely be more available to "mentor" you in the care and handling of the cow you purchase. Or you can do it your way and get a "grade" cow that you don't know much about, and believe you're saving a few bucks in the short run. Maybe you will, but the odds are far less in your favor.
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  #24  
Old 08/22/13, 08:03 AM
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Central Michigan
Posts: 325
What about a Jersey? Not too big, 900 lbs., loads of cream, enough milk to feed the calf, family, pigs, and other critters. Quite available, quite affordable, both in purchase price and AI costs. Delicious meat, and easy to sell off heifers. Lots of unregistered stock around.

I appreciate the efforts of preserving heritage breeds and the passion of those encouraging registration. However, in my small homestead, production qualities rein over breed preservation. The affordability and efficiency of the Jersey suits my situation perfectly. I love my Jersey.
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  #25  
Old 08/22/13, 08:34 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 165
Thank you, Looking4ewes,

If I may ask, how do you feed your cow? The only thing that has kept me from a Jersey is the reputation of being grain reliant. What has your experience been?
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  #26  
Old 08/22/13, 01:14 PM
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 43
I'll throw my experience out there as a pretty new milking cow owner. We bought our Jersey in March of this year. Like you I had previously had dairy goats and didn't care for them for some of the same reasons you mentioned.

My Jersey is on the smaller side, about 900 lbs. You mentioned 1 acre of pasture. Would that be all the pasture she has as well as the sheep grazing on it? You're further south than me (I'm in New Jersey), but I don't think I could keep my 900 lb girl on 1 acre alone. We rotationally graze using electronet. She is in a 5 acre pasture with roughly 1/3 of it is some pretty rough pasture that we are rehabbing. Up until last week she shared the pasture with a Dexter steer, a ram and two wethers (Icelandic and Shetland). Steer went to the butcher so now we have three ram lambs in the pasture to replace him. She's on her 4th rotation of the pasture this season and we had a wonderful growing season. Lots of rain and mild temps. Grasses did not stop growing mid season during heat and dry spells like summers past. From my teeny little bit of experience, I would question if a 1 acre pasture could support a cow 150 lbs lighter than mine plus her sheep friends. Of course your pastures could be incredibly productive (mine are not and still a work in progress). There is obviously always the ability to supplement with hay, but it seems like you are looking to avoid that during the growing season.

Good luck in your search! We adore our Jersey and have never regretted adding her to our farm.
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  #27  
Old 08/22/13, 02:11 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: VA
Posts: 1,554
Dexters and Jerseys both have their place on a homestead. It would depend upon how much milk you wanted, for the amount they eat is related to how much milk they produce.

I started out with a single Dexter/Shorthorn heifer calf. Then added purebred Dexters as I was able to find them. I've been keeping 8 to 11 Dexter sized cattle here since 2003, on 10 acres. 7 acres of grass and 3 acres of trees. There used to be a lot of brush under the trees, but no more.

I have to supplement with hay every winter and often during droughts. I cut my herd recently to reduce the amount of hay I have to store for the winter. Today I have 9 Dexters, 3 are calves. One is less than 2 weeks old.

When I said that my Dexters will produce between 2 and 3 gallons a day, that is total production, without the calf. Most of the people who buy a Dexter from me for milking follow the same plan: Separate the calf at night. Milk once a day, in the morning, taking one gallon. The rest of the milk goes to the calf.

This plan requires the cow to eat grass and hay only, without losing condition during her lactation. It also allows the owner to skip a single milking once in a while. It's a friendly plan that suits a lot of people.

That plan only works with a cow with the same level of production as a Dexter. A cow that produces more is more needy of being milked regularly. A very heavy milker must be milked 2 or 3 times a day.

If you need more milk than a Dexter gives, there is a very real benefit to having 2 dexters rather than one heavier producer. You can stagger their pregnancies so you always have at least one in milk, and the milk related problems that parallel milk production will remain low.

There are as many different types of Dexter owners as there are Dexter owners. I'm one you might call a preservationist. I want to preserve the Dexter breed in all it's glory, and my version of doing that is to accumulate the best Dexters I can find and reproduce them for sale.

I bought my first half Dexter heifer from an ALBC ad. My bull's semen is stored in the vault of the Swiss Village Foundation. I'm dedicated to preserving the breed, so I hope I didn't offend you in any way when writing about the importance of registering Dexters.

About visiting: There are differnt personalities among Dexter cows, just like people. Some are sweet as sugar, while others are grumpy and uncooperative. People are like that, too, and cows pick up on it. Some people make quick moves that startle the cow or make her uncomfortable. Some people wear scents that make the cow behave badly. Some people would be comfortable with a shorter cow, while others prefer any cow with a classic shape. Many variables. If you find a cow that you and she "click", you'll enjoy every minute of milking her. If you get old Grumpy, milking will be a chore. The cow is quite capable of holding back her milk, too. Not only will you get less milk, but it will be less rich. The last milk she gives has the highest butterfat. If she's holding back, you're not getting the richest milk.

When you go visit a cow, see if she will let you handle her teats without walking away or especially without kicking. See if you feel a kinship with her. Is she just perfect for you? If not, keep shopping.

The reason for buying from a breeder, rather than a craigslist ad, is because the breeder is most likely dedicated to providing high quality animals. His reputation would suffer if he didn't.

The reason for buying a registered Dexter is that the registration shows who the ancestors are. On ADCA, PDCA and Legacy registries, you can find pictures of a lot of those ancestors. You can find the names and address of the owners, too. Writing to them with a question about your cow's mother can help you choose. Without the pedigree, your only means of judging the cow is by looking at her.

There are many Dexter farms close to you, but here's an offer for you. I have no Dexters for sale. All mine are sold or spoken for. I won't try to sell you a Dexter. So, if you're heading north, consider stopping by to visit Paradise Farm. You can touch, handle and try to milk at your pleasure. You can easily determine if you feel comfortable with them. And if you spook them, I'll tell you so. That's so you'll know to change your deodorant or cologne or bath soap or learn Temple Grandin's approach to handling cattle. You'll go away happy, possibly giggling. Many before you have.

All my contact info is on the second page of http://paradisedexters.com

Give us a call and come on by.
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  #28  
Old 08/22/13, 07:20 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 165
Thank you genebo, that was much more informative and relevant to the information I originally requested regarding the milk production of Dexter cows.
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  #29  
Old 08/23/13, 08:03 AM
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: the flat land of Illinois
Posts: 4,652
Krebolj, I had a very small jersey/Guernsey that I bought from an organic dairy - she was sold because at 42" she was a midget and very small for the herd. She had never been off the farm, never been hand-milked - and she adjusted on her first day pretty darn well. The farmer selling her marketed her as a good family cow because he knew her temperament well. He ran a small milking operation and really liked his cows and wanted this one to get a different chance.

I thought I wanted exclusively grass-fed but in the end I supplemented with grain because I hated seeing her looking thin. I loved seeing her be glossy and have some cover on her ribs and and hips. I had almost perfect hay for her (tested) and the hay was not enough to keep her in the condition I wanted to see.

I was able to reliably get 2-3 gallons/day, with almost no drop towards the end of lactation, going 18 months between calving.
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  #30  
Old 08/23/13, 10:47 AM
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 575
krebolj,

It sounds like we have similiar goals. I do heritage breeds where I can (red wattle pigs), but put family production and "earn their keep" as the priority. Originally, I was strictly aiming for heritage, until we got our American Chinchilla rabbits. I know some have success with them, but they were so high maintenance for us, due to their lack of hardiness, which was due to them being a genetic bottleneck since they were so endangered. (That's a run-on sentence if I ever saw one!) Anyway, that is when I realized that crossing other breeds to get a breed that worked in your area, on your type of homestead, and met your goals was the perfect breed for you.

That being said, we have Alpine goats now. They are high-producing (gallon a day), but I have bred for lower maintenance, so they get by on about 2 lbs of grain, as long as they have good forage. They do not do well on just pasture, but thrive in our foresty, bushy land. We wanted a cow for the same reason, and I researched for several years. I like a small breed because they eat less on a small homestead, but couldn't find one that met my desires. I had settled on the dexter for some time, but found out the average dexter (including those bred for beef rather than dairy) only produced a gallon a day. I didn't see the economics in feeding a 600 lb animal for a gallon of milk, when I could feed my 120 lb goat for that amount. So, we looked at other breeds. I just bought a standard Jersey, though she will likely be closer to a mid-size. Her genetics produce roughly 4 gallons a day, which is very doable for us.

As far as feed, we also have 2 Lowline cows. What I have found this summer, is that your pasture sustainability is totally based on your management of it. My mother-in-law, who has 2 cheviot sheep on 1/2 acre absolutely cannot grow grass. They decimate it. On the other hand, through rotating, I can graze my 2 Lowlines, their 2 spring calves, my jersey, and a standard donkey on just under 2 acres, and fully sustain them seasonally. The area is divided into 10 different paddocks, and in the spring lush, I can get 2-3 days out of a paddock, while in a dry summer, I can only get one day out of the same paddock. In the spring and early summer, that >2 acres totally feeds them, and I cut another 2 acres for hay. Now that we are at the end, I have to give those paddocks more time to recover. So, I will have to rotate through the entire 4 acre area through the fall. I haven't been here for a winter yet, so I am stockpiling hay, just to be prepared. I'd love to not have to use much of it.

TO answer your other question, yes, it is totally possibly to sustain a jersey on strictly grass. There is a local dairy here that does it. What they found was that milk dropped about 25-30%, but their loss in profit was made up for in the health of their animals. They stopped having calving problems, colic and bloat issues, mastitis, founders and lameness, and just general overall health of cows improved.

One other thought. My jersey is also unregistered, though my Alpines are registered for the reasons given above. HOWEVER, I do like the animals to pay for themselves, so our jersey is DNA tested A2/A2 casein protein. This is the original gene, that existed prior to mutations caused by the CAFO dairy operations. I would have paid triple for my girl just for that gene (healthier milk). I have no doubt that my calves' value will be similiar to registered untested calves, if they have that gene. All that to say, it may be worth your while to have whatever cow you buy DNA tested. You can use blood or, more commonly, tail hair, and the test runs about $25, so well worth it.

Hope all that helps!
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  #31  
Old 08/23/13, 12:53 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 165
The thing is that all my land is grass, very nice grass. And if I were to purchase adjoining it is also very nice hay/ pasture land...no forage. I bought sheep because I wanted fiber and they do excellent on just grass because they are grazer like cattle, and not browsers. I could theoretically milk my sheep but they are incredibly greasy and getting the grease off every milking would be a chore in itself. The benefit to me, even though Dexters only give 1-2 gallons would be that the 1-2 gallons comes from a grass/ hay diet and my budget would be significantly slashed by cutting out the grain necessary to get the equivalent from a goat, and it would not be necessary to shear/ wash wax like it would be to milk the sheep. Plus, my husband would like something that is capable of being a good plow ox; in order to get him to agree to getting a cow I figured I could compromise on that end. A dexter farm about 1.5 hours north of me told me that I could get away with stocking 2 cows and their calves on the land I have available without supplementing much, if any hay. I have a visit scheduled to look at a calf next weekend where I can get my eyes on a couple generations of parents and make my decision from there. They are unregistered, but the registered farms still can not give me a number on how much their animals produce- as I mentioned one farm said 3-6 gallons and another said 8gallons....obviously not the case....so if I can't get the numbers I'm looking for from registered parents, can still do health/ genetic testing to get a healthy animal, and can look at the parents and grandparents of the calf I'm going to go for the unregistered calf. Our parents have already asked us to contribute to hay costs and split the cost of beef calves...so unregistered calves will not be a problem.
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