Lakeport thats what I thought in my number 5 post on this thread......there would not be a smell now if mummied 3 months ago.......every calf I have touched inutero has moved.....this vet said he felt feet...but did not say they moved why I said to check with vet again...since he had his hand in there...he could have said calf was alive then

Anything new yet?

All quite one the southern front, Amy sitting chewing her cud quite happy and content

Can you see calf movement?

One of my goats had a dead kid, it had died at about halfway through her pregnancy. There was never any smell, no infection. But she would not go into proper labor. I luted her twice and she still would not dilate all the way.; I wasn't even able to get all the old, partially reabsorbed placenta out, but there was no problem. She kidded here a while back with twins. So yea, not necessarily a smell or an infection with a dead kid, and I assume calf. It can all be sterile.

We are waiting for a heifer to calve as well. Last possible due date was the 4th. Been checking her ligaments every day for over 6 weeks.

I have to know for my own mind at what point would You intervene? I have seen documentation of women carrying their dead fetus for 40+ years till they are surgically removed. In my mind Your son needs to be educated on when you need to "get tough and make a hard call" she may never deliver her calf if it's dead. You need to make a choice on what to do about the pregnancy.
I had to do it. I had to lute a doe she was in predromal for a week and due to being lowest on the order she was stressed and wouldn't deliver. I made her deliver in 23 hrs. If I were you I would see what your vet thinks. Your son is autistic And should not be left to make this choice.

I suspect my DH would (by now) be reaching in to those feet, and getting a sturdy, clean rope looped around them ----- and begin with some gentle, steady pulling pressure.

If she is not in labor, then her cervix is not dialated. No way to do any of that at this point.

I am wondering how competent that vet is.
he knows she's way overdue yet did not check if the calf is alive or discuss with you what the next step should be !
I would.call another vet to come look at her.
if its alive its way to bog by now.
just because she is big does not mean much.
I have watched my uncle pull calves,3 men pulling,and they were ai and closely watched and induced if late. and yes,from hollsteins!
if its dead u run a risk of her dying from infection ,I'm sure your son is more attached to her than the calf .....



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The vet was unable to ascertain internally in the calf was alive as they felt the feet via rectal examination.

When attempting a vaginal examination to elicit a response from the calf was unable to reach far enough into the vagina due to ???adhesions ???hyman.

When the vet 'bumped' the calf they got a response. I should have asked exactly how to 'bump' as I do not believe I get any response.

She has bagged up further and is producing more strings.

Still eating happily or laying and chewing her cud. Will keep you all informed.

Thanks

KG, heifers do have persistent hymens so the farmer is right...how do I know....I had a yearling mare have one at 1 yr old. Totally freaked me out...she had this big bubble come out from her vagina when she would run....the vet would have me push it back in when needed...he finally did surgery on her a few months later. Sometimes they are filled with air and sometimes they are filled with fluid. He told me that it happens normally in heifers, rarely in mares. All they did with her is make a cut in it.

Hope everything turns out ok with Amy....she looks like a sweet girl~

Edited to add, my mare had a fine healthy stallion 3 yrs later after the surgery

With her streaming for so many days, have you checked her a time to see if she is dilating and if the hymen is causing her issues for delivery. I know you are on an island and not many choices. Either the head is twisted back or the calf is breach. If the head is twisted back the calf need to be manually repositioned.
I have a doe that has a tilted uterus. When she fully dilates and feels the urge to push I have to reach in and pull the baby. Every time. She cannot deliver on her own. Period! She would just sit around and chew her cud if I didn't pull.

Assuming she is just late and hoping she does calf soon, watch for a retained placenta. It happens sometimes in long pregnancies (and for other reasons too).

Excuse my ignorance, a few have suggested I should 'lute her' I Googled 'how do I lute a cow' and all the info was in relation to making her cycle prior to AI.

Can someone enlighten me please.

Lutalyse is a injectable drug that causes a cow to cycle, or in the case of one bred, to abort the calf prematurely. It is available by prescription only, and some vets won't even give it to you because of the potential for "misuse" :confused:

If you have a mummified calf, it can sit there for a long time, but obviously she won't be producing any calves or showing any signs of cycling. There is a good chance she can be bred again after aborting the mummified calf, but it may be difficult to get her to concieve. Natural service by a bull is usually a better way to go for the first time following, or you'll be possibly wasting some additional time and money through AI.

I'd agree with another prior post that your vet should have attempted to tell if the calf was alive if she was so close to the due date. Any you may be looking at the possibility of sectioning the calf to remove it if the lute doesn't work, or if the calf is so large that it may pose problems to the mother for delivery.

I hope I'm wrong of course...

Kg is your vet able to do a c section if needed? Or putting back a prolapse? These are two questions I think are critical. I think in my own situation I would be calling my vet to ask. Also could you pay for the fore mentioned services? I think you need to start thinking hard on the next step. Unless you need burger?

I think I better clarify before the OP gets the wrong idea when I said "section". I don't mean C-Section...if the calf is alive and very large it may be something that is necessary to save the lives of both, but if the calf is dead/mummified by "section" I mean to go in through the cervix and take the dead calf out a little bit at a time.

If it had been a natural breeding, or if the cow had been with a bull continuously and possibly slipped a calf and was re-bred a couple of months later, it would be different. But with a firm AI date and still no calf, we could still be having this conversation a month from now.

You can give it another week or so, and at that point its time to think about your next step. In any case, depending on the size/birthweights of the AI sire, I'd have a vet on standby until then.

Cows are routinely induced without any problems. Many large dairies do it so they know exactly when to expect calves.


Crossing my fingers for a good outcome!

I keep checking this tread, hoping to see a post and picture of Amy cow licking on her heathly new born heifer calf. That would be so wonderful! Praying all is well..

Praying for a good outcome here as well! Keep us posted.

Any up date on your cow??? I keep checking hoping to hear of a positive out come.

me too!



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As do I. It has become an obsession for me.

me too! I love sweet good cows and I love that your son loves her so much.

fingers crossed!

Me too!!! Hoping and praying for a good outcome.

Me too I check all the time for an update..hoping she doesnt just disappear.. Hoping for good news

Waiting, waiting.

Kg if something is awry please let us support you! We will not tell you " told you so" or point fingers. We're here to help and support. We all pray you are helping her with deliver as to why you are absent. Know we are here do support and answer questions. I ignore my house work n bill paying all the time to help people on here. All hours of the day and night.

reading daily with fingers crossed, good luck and gods speed

I have angst!

And it's making me fret about our heifer more now too.

Hi everyone, I have been away on Pony club camp, my brother was on Amy watch. No change, still happy chewing her cud, will phone vet tomorrow and discuss possibilities. Will update you all when I know more.

Thanks for all the prayers and good wishes, they are appreciated.

Regards

Viv

Her udder has tightened considerably overnight, she has milk pouring from her two front teats, is appearing restless. My son has spent the last 2 hours out with her just lying on her rubbing her shoulders. He came in all excited that he had felt the baby move so we will keep our fingers crossed. Vet is meant to be phoning me back at 10. Will let you all know the update.

Oh good! I'll pray more!

I personally as soon as possible would go in vaginally and check calf presenting position. Make sure the head is not turned back

Thank you so much for posting a update..have been following your story from day one! Cant wait until that baby is born so we all can see what he/ she looks like..I love baby calfs.

Warning tmi! I personally as a human ovulate 8 days later the "normal" and always go 13 days over. So for dr's who only go by 28 day cycles , are 22 days off for me. The dr's freak over nothing with me. If they would only listen! That's why I have a midwife. Lol

Vet is happy to still leave her at the moment, need to treat one rear quarter as she has picked up mastitis.:shrug:

My Heaven, I cannot do a vaginal inspection as her hymen is still intact, have discussed this with the vet, the preference is for it to be broken naturally during birth. If Amy gets stressed at all we will be doing a C Section delivery and this will be her one and only baby so the hymen will not present any issue in the future.

So I gather your vet does not have ultrasound equipment. Did the vet examine her again to see if there is ANY indication that the calf is alive?

23 days past due...about one cycle....are you absolutely certain of the AI date or that no other cattle were in the area at all ever?

Long time ago, we had a cow with a mummified calf (we were new, had just purchased the cow, and had NO clue when she had been bred, in fact, didn't know she was pregnant). Found her straining one day. Took two shots of Lutalyse to get her to pass it. Took her two years after that to deliver a live calf.

Any update. Not sure the time difference from central time to nz time

I was thinking it must be an extremely rare event for a calving to occur normally at over 306 days gestation. Especially since the calf could gain an extra 50 pounds in the extra time.

Maybe someone somewhere studies these things. Of course, the breeding dates would have to be 100% confirmed.