How much impact are Factory Farms? Really?

You seem to have a strong opinion and I think that's fine. Many of us do. But, i want to be sure you better understand Feed lot cattle and antibiotics.
It isn't cost effective to regularly feed antibiotics in a feed lot.
when cattle are brought in from all over the country to a feed lot, SOME feed lots give antibiotics for awhile, because the cattle are exposed to all sorts of bacteria that they didn't have back home. The antibiotics use are often tetracycline type of drug, not the drugs acssociated with drug resistance.

Because nearly all drugs have waiting period before they are out of the cattle's system, it wouldn't make sense to give drugs to cattle destined to slaughter.

Yes, going down the highway, seeing and smelling thousands of cattle isn't pleasing. But drive around to a lot of small farms and you'll see the same thing, cows up to their hocks in manure. The big guys allow it because it doesn't cut into their profits, while the small operations often can't afford large paddocks of properly drained and scraped concrete.

You believe that people want "pasture raised" because they want to stay away from grain fed? I always thought it was the mind's eye of an Angus steer standing on a grassy hillside was what they wanted to think when they stabbed their fork into a steak.

When folks buy "free range" chicken, I don't think they want to think about all the insects they eat or horse manure they pick through. It is the thought of a dozen chickens running free in Grandma's back yard, that has the appeal.

I'm not totally ignorant of what I'm talking about. I am exclusively a cow/calf operator and grow or buy no corn, soybeanmeal etc.for some time now.
But back in the eighties I was a grain farmer, I could tell you every herbicide for every crop and how much to apply. That was before the day of Roundup Ready corn and beans. If anything good has came from RRcrops it is the fact that very little soil is plowed up(no-till). Not that plowing is a crime or anything if we incorporate good practices like interseeding and cover crops and moving back to permanent grass occasionally but that requires more work.
We measure our success in bushels per acre. IMO there is probably not as much nutrient value in a 150bu ac RR corn as there was in the 70 bu open-pollinated corn our grandfathers grew. When was the last you ever heard of anybody sending off a sample of their bin busting crop to a lab and had an extensive nutrient test done on it?
As far as GMO being a thing of the past more and more countries around the world are banning it and 80 to 90 percent of Americans want GMO labeling. If people ever get a choice to know what they are buying ....they will refuse it and the GMO crops will dry up over night IMO. How will farmers grow grain? The way they used to with conventional varieties if there are any left.

If GMO crops dry up over night, all your knowledge of various pesticides and herbicides will again be useful.

Huh. Funny, I never see it here. NEVER.

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I only know what my customers tell me. You, however, appear to be able to read their minds.

The hoopla of other countries not wanting to buy GM crops has more to do with THOSE countries trade agreements
and attempts to support their own farmers than it does any concern about being 'poisoned' by Monsanto (and others).
Imagine that: Regulations that support your own country's farmers over buying stuff shipped in from overseas!

But instead of seeing it for that, the implication is that "All Things GM" must be very bad and evil, etc.
Very similar to the 'image/belief' issue in post #10.

I support each farmers right to choose their own seed and to grow their stock however they wish.
I trust that farmers are not stupid people and they are not heartless jerks.
Maybe a few are, but mostly they are honest hardworking people who deserve my respect.
They care about their land and they take pride in growing the food that feeds the people of the world.

The media would make out farmers to be monsters who brutalize their animals, rape the land, and dont care a whit for anything but money.
That has not been my experience ever.

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Cows may not be smarter than People, but some cows are smarter than some people.

Don't get snarky. I said " I always thought". That's my opinion. You haven't canvased the world, so you only have your opinion based on a few people. Feel free to have another opinion.
I never claimed to be able to read minds.

Funny, CA, the land of loopiness rejected the law when put to vote. If labelling can't get passed there I have big doubts as to your 80-90% figure..

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Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

I think the trend now with grass fed beef is not so much grass fed and no corn, but having it without the use of antibiotics and growth hormones. I think the consumer is more educated in those areas than whether corn reduces omega 3's or if it was fed gmo corn. I don't think the average consumer is that deeply aware or up to date on everything grass fed means. But that is slowly changing. There is nothing quite like losing ones health or a loved one losing theirs that makes people take inventory about what they put in their body.

Depends on your definition of family farm. In this area, big ag has a HUGE effect in the downfall of the small family farm. Used to be every other farmer milked 50 head. Today, maybe one farm per couple miles. The mega dairies, yes they are clean, but the cattle never see grass. They are required to contract so many acres per head to spread manure on. As a result, the price of land is driven sky high, combined with Monsanto and his GMO high priced corn. Now land is 7000 an acre and no small family can afford land to farm, so instead they sell out to the mega dairy. One more small farmer gone.

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I dont see a lot of education when it comes to antibiotics, hormones, reduction of Omega's, etc.
Mostly I just see the same FB type 'shares ' of misinformation.
Very few people are really doing their own research.

There is so much misinformation out there in circulation and it keeps getting perpetuated.
Seems like nobody even asks the farmers what they are really doing any more.

A whole lot of people just choose to believe that you only have 2 choices:
Agri-biz: (which is evil uncaring rapist sons of a you know)

Or:

Organic/grass-fed/expensive/fancy (which is righteous, hard-to-do, deserves the high price, bend over and pay for that).

And the truth that I have seen in my own (42 years so not that long) life is that

NEITHER OF THESE OPTIONS ARE PERFECT.

I have worked organic dairies that never used antibiotics.
I have worked 'family-owned' larger dairies( 500 head, not terribly massive) who did use antibiotics.

I have stories I could tell from both points of view.

The media 'spin' sways people. I think the average consumer of beef and milk has very little clue of what it entails to bring these products to their table.
In fact, I am certain that the bulk of them have no idea-what-so-ever.

Food is like this magical thing that you get from stores.
So I am not buying the idea that "more people are educated".
That has not been my experience at all.

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Cows may not be smarter than People, but some cows are smarter than some people.

Do your own research. Right now GMO labeling is voluntary I have seen it in the supermarkets though its not a lot. But I believe as more companies see the trend going to non-GMO they are going to start labeling everything they can. No company is going to say their product contains ingredients from GMO sources until they are forced to by law.
So why don't you grow GMO corn? If you had a choice to buy corn meal that was GMO free and one that wasn't which one would you choose? If you knew that in the genetic altering process a gene from a different species was put in so something native to the plant was taken out, would you think twice?
It took 30 to 40 years to create the Dust Bowl by plowing up the native grasses of the great plains a mistake finally realized after the fact.
What kind of catastrophe is on the horizon with all this GMO food?
These huge corporations are only in it for the money they can make. They don't care about you, me or the environment.

Gone a milkin............just to clarify. Consumers know about antibiotics because people take antibiotics we all know they are not as effective as they once were stronger and stronger antibiotics are needed more and more. Everybody knows that beef, chicken, and pork are raised with some degree of antibiotics and have been for years.
And everybody knows how girls are developing much younger than they used to. Many people attribute it to the hormones in beef, pork, chicken, and milk. So consumers are connecting the dots. Whether antibiotics and hormones in animals effect people or not......the perception is in a lot of peoples mind that it does.

Antibiotics cost money. And like you say they are less effective when they have been misused.

It is also true that if you dont ever use any antibiotics, creatures will and do suffer and die.


I have seen both sides of that coin up close and personal.

My contention is that the media perpetuate this idea that all 'factory farms' pump their animals chock full of antibiotics constantly.
That has not been my experience tending livestock my whole life.

Hormones. Your supposition that "everybody knows" that animals raised commericially are are chock full of growth hormones?
That is honestly not 100% true. And not 'everyone knows' it to be true.

You can believe it to be true if you want to. I have had different experiences.
It is every bit my right to point out my experience as it is yours.

Lumping everyone into your statement does not make it more correct or honest.

The only reason I even bother to stand up for farmers is that so much misinformation is spread.
It doesnt make me "pro-Monsanto" tpo say that most all the dairies I have known (which has been quite a few in 7 states over the last 25 years) do not pump their cows up with antibiotics or BSE hormones.

The media finds certain situations and expounds upon those.
The PETA type orgs also flood the air with half truths, exaggerations, and outright lies.

People eat that with a spoon and then say "Farmers are Evil" while they point to those soundbites for validation.

Meanwhile, most farmers are not doing these things that you claim "EVERYBODY" knows about.
I am sure that some of them are. I know it for a fact, actually.

But if you have ever been on an organic operation where they didnt treat any animals w/ antibiotics EVER or risk losing their status..?
Well, I dont believe that is more humane or healthy for the critters or the people involved.

There is no one perfect answer to this debate.

I guess that is my only point. Its like saying you dont believe in antibiotics at all.
Or hormones at all. Both of those things have their place.

My best wishes to you ycanchu2. I try to know what I feed my family too.
Luckily I am right in the thick of it so I can see w/my own eyes and make case by case choices.
Not everyone is so lucky I suppose, and they depend on regulations to make it 'safe' for them.

But I dont see most people being really all that educated on where their food comes from.
I guess discussions like this do help.

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Cows may not be smarter than People, but some cows are smarter than some people.

I don't know about cattle or dairy farms being "factory farms" but I know the pork industry and chicken industry are truly factory farms, with the actual farms owned by family farmers but the raising, feeding and medicating controlled by giant industrial corporations who only care about their bottom line and care nothing about the farmers or the livestock. We live this every day. I will not eat the product that our farm grows because of the way they are fed, which we have absolutely no control over. Our options are to grow for this one company or to lose our substantial investment and our income in a county where the unemployment rate is over 20%. It's killing my husband, physically and mentally. It's a horrible way to raise livestock. It's a horrible way to farm. We're trying to get out of it, and will probably have our contract ended soon because we refuse to pay for any more capital "improvements" the company keeps insisting on that only benefit the equipment and chemical suppliers they probably own anyway. Factory farming is real, and if you eat pork or chicken from a store, it's a real problem for you too.

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BTW, hormones have never been allowed in the pork or chicken industries. Any pork or chicken label that says "Hormone Free" is telling the truth because it has never been allowed. However, organic cyanide has been fed to chickens for the last 60 years because the FDA approved it in the 1940's and it makes the birds grow faster and heavier. Oh, yeah, it also turns to inorganic cyanide once it passes through the chicken's gut and then it never leaves the soil the manure is spread on. The EU banned it's use in 1999, but here in the states it's never been banned. Alpharma quit making it in 2011 (brand-name 3-Nitro) but other companies were not banned from making it, selling it or poultry companies prevented from using it as a feed additive. Enjoy your chicken.

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Problem is, antibiotics are required to be used on an organic farm if it is the last resort. If an organic farmer is killing animals by withholding antibiotics he is in clear violation of the rules of NOP and should have his status revoked.

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Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

Every bit of feed used on most dairy farms is tested before it is included in the ration. No sense mixing in what you don't know. So constantly would be the answer fo you.

As an aside, regardless of the slightly higher protein found in some OP corn, corn and all small grains have been considered low protein feed sources since long before GMO and most hybrids were ever around. Corn isn't fed for its protein.....

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Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

Sure, most people know about antibiotics, but most people don't understand them and most people have the wrong idea about antibiotic use in livestock. Add that to the foolish belief that early puberty is somehow brought on by bovine growth hormones, and you have set the stage for perpetuation of myths and rumors.

Girls are developing earlier because they are growing faster, because they are fed better. Most 12 year old girls (and boys) are carrying an extra 10-15 pounds. Where do you think the girls put that? Yup. Breasts and muffin tops.

If you believe that chicken, pork or beef is sold with antibiotics in the meat, you'd be wrong. If you believe that pigs and chickens are fed growth hormones, you'd be wrong.
The perception in many peoples minds is wrong because people keep repeating the lies.