Best dairy cow/meat combo

My favorite cow was a Lowline angus/Jersey cross. Bred her back to a lowline angus bull for beefy calf. She could have handled a bigger bull, such as found at Pharocattle.com.

As for Dexters, they are not all the same. Bred for different purposes. The one I had didn't give much milk. And her steer calf was pretty bony. And she was wild. I didn't like horns. Otherwise a pretty good cow.

I am currently raising a Hereford/Jersey heifer, bred to a red angus. I prefer non-black cattle because they are cooler in the summer.

While I'm waiting for her to calve, I'm milking a British White cow, supposedly a beef cow. As Francismilker said, enough milk for just me and wife. Take 2 to 3 quarts after separating calf for 6 to 8 hours. I even take a few days off milking per week.

genebo,
With no offense intended. The dexter breed associations are even suggesting that the mid-sized Dexters are the best performing in the breed.
The American Dexter Assoc. was stating the average for a cow is around 750 lb. I couldn't find anything about 205 day weights. What have you found to be true?
For me, a commercial cow should be able to raise 1/2 her weight, in calf, at 205 days of age. If I were to breed a 1350 lb. cow (large frame) to a good quality bull. It's hard, and even close to impossible in some cases, to acheive that 50% growth rate at 205 days without alot extra feed. Those last 75 or 80 lbs. are hard to achieve with the larger framed cows because feed isn't as good of a quality in the latter part of the season. And they need more to keep themselves up. The smaller framed cows just can't take in enough to bump that big calf over the 50% mark.
If I breed my 1150 to 1200 lb. cow to the same bull, she will be more likely to reach that bench mark and still breed back for next year. If they don't, they are culled as heavy springers come february the next year or as open in the fall.
I guess I should explain, I run a group of meduim framed F-1 cows bred to Limousine bulls. Those same bulls were bred to my Swiss and my Guernsy cows. I had 2 really old cows that were looking bad so I grafted thier calves to my milk cows and sent them to the sale while prices were high on cutters. I did this instead of milking the past 2 years.
So those 2 cows are both raising 2 calves each. They will raise they're weight in calves on slew grass and willows. We will find out for sure if they can do it again at the end of September.
My calves are contracted @ $1.89, over my scales. That makes those 2 cows worth alot.
I saw one farm that stated that they were selling a 24 to 30 month dexter calf, on the hook for just over $1600. It ended up being over $5.00 a lb. I don't remember the exact amount. I didn't catch how many were available. But thats a good return.
I will condition my calves 3 to 4 weeks before they ship at 8 1/2 months of age. Now which cows are more efficient.
My dad has always told me to follow the money. It won't lead you astray.
It would be hard to run 2 of any breed of cows on 3.5 acres, throughout the year, anywhere in the U.S., without severly impacting the ground. Especially with this years drought. Side note: The last I heard, 58% of counties in the U.S. are in drought condition of some kind. Adding alot to equation.
I cut back to 39 pair this year. The lowest I've ever been in the 21 years here. That will still fill a pot load and some to sell individually next fall.
To the point; Himeson, I hope that this gives you something to chew on.

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That which is tolerated by the first generation is magnified in the next.

CIW

Thinking of your pasture ,it can be so much more effecent if you can devide it into 3 or more maller lots let her graze in a differint one every couple days letting the grass recover in the others most cows can be fenced with a single strand of electric once they learn about it .this helps avoid her makeing a mud hole or barren spot in one area and neglicting others

Genebo, I have to question the underlined comment you made. I agree with the question you raise but dare to ask it back to you. I know you're a fan of dexters and more power to you, but I don't know of any breed of cattle that will make an abundance of milk on the that (except for maybe the crabgrass). I know dexters are good foragers as the brahman breed is, but I don't think there's enough research to prove they thrive on undesireables. They may eat it when there's nothing else to eat, but I doubt they thrive on it.
I'd dare to bet you could put a herd of dexters on a pasture that had bermuda on one side and your described bushes above and we'd see them eating more bermuda grass as a matter of choice. I do know that cows will nearly stand on their back hooves to reach a tender leaf off a tree, but they don't thrive on them. I've had cows that would walk a hundred miles to eat forage for acorns, but they've lost more weight than they gained.

Just my two cents here.

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Francismilker

"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much" James 5:16

I have been reading the rotational pasturing thread. I plan to utilize the idea. I will divide up the property using the elec poly wire. How big of a area would you guys start with as a paddock? Feet x feet. I know I will have to adjust to keep the grass at 3 inches. I will probably start with one, then her calf....then mom a new calf and the yearling. So three at the most.

For a small acreage I vote for a Dexter, but be aware that there are beef-type Dexters and Dexters from milky lines. A Milking Shorthorn is also a good dual purpose cow.

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CIW,

The American Dexter Cattle Association has a breed standard that call for a cow not to EXCEED 750 lbs.

Dexters are traditionally a dual purpose breed, whose place in life is to fill the needs of a small landholder for milk and beef. They can never compete in the commodity beef market with specialty breeds developed for that purpose.

Rate of growth of a dexter is usually a non-issue. The calf is expected to live off of it's mama for a while and then forage until time to harvest it, usually for the family freezer.

In cars, there are Hummers, Cadillacs, Ferraris and Priuses. Each fills a need for somebody. Choosing Dexters for a large commercial beef operation would be like bringing a knife to a gunfight. But for the purpose intended, and the question of "Best Dairy/Meat cow?" they are hard to beat.

Francismilker,

I sold 4 cows to a young man who milks them on cow shares while simultaneously raising beef calves on them. They are on 100% pasture. No grain, ever. They keep the shaded area of their pastures cleaned like a hound's tooth. He has to rotate pastures so the underbrush gets a chance to grow back. The fence line is picked clean, too.

I don't milk my cows, but they sure do stay fat and sassy on what I feed them. I cut my neighbor's fields for hay. It includes all the items I listed plus almost every other weed you can imagine growing here. The drought wiped out all the grass in my pastures so that the neighbor's hay was all they had to eat and they loved it.

Now, a month later, the crabgrass and bermuda are all that remains of my pasture, but it is tall and lush. The annual rye seed that I spread under the trees is 4" tall. The reason? They don't like those grasses. They spend all day in the woods eating bark, fallen limbs, leaves and prunings. They come into the pasture to graze just in the morning and evening.

I have so much of the weedy hay that I can splurge, so I throw out a square bale every morning and night. All 7 of them stop grazing to come eat it. All that is left is the blackberry thorns. I hate the thorns, but the cattle love the leaves.

I have a hard time finding uses for all the dead cedar trees that my cattle and goats killed by stripping the bark.

A Dexter is not a substitute for a commercial dairy cow. Even the highest producing Dexter cow can't match a good Jersey. Her place in life is to provide enough milk for a small family with limited acreage. She doesn't produce more than they need and does it on less feed. Often, a homesteader finds it is too expensive to feed a cow to produce 4 gallons a day when all they want is a gallon.

It's awfully nice to be able to milk a Dexter just once a day, too. Keeping her calf on her means that if the need arises, you can skip that one milking and she won't suffer for it.

People who grew up in the commercial beef industry or on a commercial dairy have a hard time fitting Dexters into their schemes, and rightly so. But not everyone has the means to do that. Instead of a hundred beef calves to rush to market, they want one beef calf and can wait for him to develop, nursing on the same cow they use to supply them a gallon a day for the household. Instead of measuring their month's income by pounds of milk produced, they just want to be able to give their family wholesome, home grown milk when they only have 3 to 5 acres.

In that case, Dexters rule. No Holstein can do the same thing so well. No Angus can fill the bill. It's a world that big beef and dairy farmers can't understand, but those who are in that situation can see it clearly.

See? Three worlds. Big beef, dairy and smallholders. Families. That's my crowd.

Here's one of my steers, in drought pasture, with weedy hay in the feeder. Notice the tree line in the distance. Eaten clean as high as a cow can reach.

Excellent post genebo!

I second everything Genebo said. Dexters are a very old celtic breed of cattle bred for small homesteads, small pastures, harsh conditions. They thrive where most breeds can't. Their small size and ability to forage make them perfect for people who have these same conditions now. My three girls have come through this drought in top condition with nothing but dry pasture, hay, and a small handful of grain in the morning to keep them gentle like pets. They are thriving on well under 3 acres of partially wooded WV "pasture" in the ridges.

Dexters allow a small landowner with poor conditions to keep a small family of cattle where they could only keep one or two animals of other breeds. If this fits your situation you should try them. You could keep one milk cow, last year's calf you're raising for beef, and her new calf easily.

I am not going to argue the point of Dexters being dual purpose or who converts pinecones into better beef; it's a known fact that Dexters have always been meant to provide some milk for a family as well as nurse a calf that goes in the family's freezer. I'm sure there are a number other breeds that can also do that. Complications pop up when the calf is a heifer (we can't send a pretty little heifer to the meat locker, we could sell her for more, oops she's not registered, now what do we do?) Managing a breeding milking animal is far more involved than just tossing hay to a couple of steers and loading them up when the time comes.

My concern is a new person with no experience starting off with a family milk cow (of any breed) on limited space. Any milk cow must be bred sooner or later if she is to continue to have a job; that involves either AI or live cover (AI is somewhat involved and live cover often depends on how close a suitable bull and a willing owner can be found). This fact can be a major obstacle to people just starting out.

I advised Himesan to start slow, see if you like having cows before you make a more demanding commitment. If you don't like what's involved in keeping cattle, then having a couple of steers processed for beef and sharing with family and friends is a whole lot easier than wondering why you got skinned at the sale barn with a small cow with horns.

If someone really wanted a smaller quantity of milk - and that was the primary goal - there is little need to rebreed quickly. I bet you could keep a cow in a reasonable amount of milk, for family consumption, for years without rebreeding. My cow's production did not drop at all from 6 months into the laction till 18 months into the same lactation when we dried her up for calving. Being later in the lactation also means that you can switch to 1x/day milking with few negative consequences as lactation is not at peak levels. Very family friendly!

My good friend continues to get 3/4 gallon of milk from a goat in her 4th lactation year since kidding. It can be done successfully for an animal that is not pushed for production and that is kept kindly and fed responsibly.

The only reasons to rebreed annually, imo, are either commercial milk production or wanting another calf.

G. Seddon,

I heard you, and I with take the caution to heart.

I like a smaller holstein/hereford cross. Will raise 8 calves each lactation and give enough milk for a family without much grain....James

any cow will give you less milk with little or no grain.
Grass fed holsteins will give a fair amount of milk but nothing like the amount of their sisters fed high powered grain and silage rations.
I wouldn't be afraid of getting a lightweight holstein heifer and raising her to be a family cow.
With a grass based diet and lower milk production her butterfat will go up as well. Probably not near a jersey but sometimes trying to get a jersey heifer is like pulling teeth.

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Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

I would recommend Milking Devons but any of the old multipurpose breeds would be good. Milking Devons are one of the smaller thriftier multipurpose breeds.

New to your forum here but just reading the replies on this topic I thought I'd throw my 2 cents. We have a Dexter that just calved a couple weeks ago, (1st calf), and although I love the breed, they can be a little sporty to get milked. Best option there is to start out with a young heifer calf and let grow around you. I got mine from another farm at 2 years and although halter trained, don't take the rope off. However, we just recently got a "mini-Jersey" and she is a docile little sweetheart. Not the original mini-jersey of the 1800's, but bred through a couple generations of Dexter bull to Jersey cow. Outstanding combination. We get about a gallon a day.

Another thing about a home milker, some people are concerned with the A1/A2 casein gene-- if it's just your family and you have zero issues with milk and don't take the dairy scare seriously a Holstein or fresian derivitive is fine.
I decided on sticking with dexters, jerseys brown swiss etc. both to err on the side of caution, and for my milk to be more sale-able-- even if I don't plan on selling any now, it's good to have the option of more types of customers.
Seems like the more you scratch the surface on natural food-- the more hangups you find that people have with food.

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G.Seddon's advice to start slow is sound. You might be able to find a farmer nearby that would pasture a couple of dry cows at your place for the summer. See how you like it without the long-term commitment, no need to bring in hay for winter, etc.