Sale barn lesson. Now what?
 

I went to the sale today to pick up a couple of steers for next years freezer meat. I bought two nice little calves. The first is a black 338 pounder. He has a long body and flat back. Just a great looking calf.

The second looks just like a Hereford (white face with a red body) but his hair is really slick and short. The hair does not have any curls except a few right on his forehead but only just a little. Anyway, he only weighs 208.

They were announced as steers and the paperwork lists both as steers. But when I get them home and in the corral, I notice the little red one still has all his natural hardware. I bought steers because I am a newbie and did not want to deal with turning bulls to steers yet. But I read the sign right over the auctioneer that states "No guarantees, look closely." Guess I will sit closer next time.

Can a bull this size be banded or will I have to find someone to cut him? If so, where can I buy a good banding tool?

Take him to your vet, it doesn't cost much and they will know the best way to castrate him. Be sure to have a tetnus shot, too.

Do you have cows that you are worried about? If not, just keep him intact. The meat will be just fine.

If your going to cut him, you will need to wait till cold weather. You can band now , but I would wait for cool weather at the least. I would also call the auction barn, and just ask, why does my steer have equipment yet. > Thanks Marc

If you get him finished and processed young he will still be good eats. As long as there aren't females on the other side of the fence for him to make trouble over. He could still be castrated but why spend the money and put him thru the stress if you don't have to. And a big 10-4 on the tetanus vaccination plus antitoxin if you do it all at the same time. We lost one to tetanus after castration and it was not pretty.

He will be in with my 6 heifer calves that are to small to breed yet. They will not be big enough until January. I have worked out a deal with a friend to use his bull then for the fee of a calf. His bull is a low birth weight bull he uses for heifers. I guess a vet bill is in order. Thanks for your insight.

Whatever you do, please don't put him in with your heifers!

If you have to haul him and pay a vet, I'd just band him at home. As small as he is, you can put a rope on him and snub him to a post or tree or lay him down. If you haven't banded, get your neighbor to help (the one with the bull). If he doesn't band, he'll surely know how and be able to cut the calf for you. It's easy and takes just a few seconds to cut a calf.

But you have to cut a bull when its cold, otherwise you will get maggots in him. You can cut horses and hogs when its hot, but cattle has to be cold. > Thanks Marc

We band all of our calves now, your calf should be fine if you band him and give him a tetanus shot.

No you don't. I agree it's best, but if you spray screw worm aerosol or blue lotion, you won't have any problems.

Correct, I have cut many hundreds in the S FLA summers and have never had problems with maggots.

Something I didn't see mentioned and not to sound dumb but are you sure he is still a bull? Did u get a hand on his sack and give it a squeeze? Depending on how you cut a steer the sack will still be there and have a fatty deposit inside it.

Before u get a handful of sack get you a banding gun and bands from your local co-op. at 200 pounds or close to that that calf is just weaned. Still plenty small enough to band. If you feel testies inside the sack put a band around them. They are simple to put on. While u have him caught might as was give him a tetanus shot and a dose of durapen to knock out the crap they always seem to get in their lungs from the sell barn. If you don't want to use shot form antibiotics aramysin crumbles can be added to their feed and take care of both of new steers at once.

I am glad you mentioned that, I saw for the first time last week at an auction what you mention, had a sack, but didn't look like it was intact, wasn't sure if it was cut, or still a bull, although I did not see the hang-age I was expecting. I have only dealt with banding, so wasn't sure what to make of it. Thanks, makes me feel better.

Well you guys cut all the bulls you want in the summer, not me, I`m an old timer I guess. > Thanks Marc

A calf is only just getting a good start at 200 pounds. Most beef cattle aren't weaned until at least 450 to 500 pounds. Ours are usually closer to 650.

If a calf is weaned at 200 to 300 pounds, it was because of some other issues... orphaned, dairy, sick, etc.

For those of you who remember my failed cattle deal, the vet charged $70 to castrate the one we got as a steer. That seemed excessive to me.

But normally we band.

If you squeeze his sack and he kicks you. You need to band. I know I would kick if some guy squeezed me there! LOL

I understand that. I was just under the impression he has bought these from the sale barn and was just pulled off their momma (weened)

Still a bottle baby.

It is normal for a salesbarn to list almost all of the male calves as steers.

If they were steers, they would. And most would be, where I come from. Steers usually bring more per pound.

Our auction has started pulling calves off the older cows when they come into the sale barn, and selling them separately. I guess they figured out they can get more money for them that way.

It does give those of us who want a bottle calf an opportunity to buy a nice beef animal.

My apology. I thought you were saying they were weaned at 200. You'd be surprised how many times I've seen "city" farmers buy calves at the sale barn at 200 to 300 pounds and were told they were weaned....

Thanks for all the info. They are in the corral at the moment.

Weaned or not, he is now. He was not run through with his momma. He came out of the trailer eatting grass for about 30 minutes. He drank some water. I then split 3 pounds of 16% feed for the 2 and they shared the trough nicely. I then put in a 1/3 of a square bale (60 pound bale). They both ate the feed and then nibbled the hay. I just got home to go check them today.

At 208, he would need a ladder to reach the heifers I would think. They are all 500 to 550. Am I going to have to find somewhere to move him? That will be hard!

I have a call in to my friend to see if he can band or cut him. Waiting to hear back.

Here we clamp our bull calves. We haven't banded nor cut a bull calve in 40 years. We try to clamp the bull calves the day or the day after they are born and give them all pinkeye and blacklegg shots, heifers and bull calves. We don't give tentanus shots to any of them.. We might have 25 plus bull calves born annually, use to have more cattle then we do now and we clamp them all.. My brothers took over the cattle farming for my dad and well the boys aren't as good as dad was and we did have one stagg from last years group of calves. As for clamping, weather doesn't matter, we have clamped in 20 degrees or 95 degrees.

I have sales barn reciepts going back to the 1960s. Every bull calf we sold was listed as steers, we didn't casterate anything we would be selling as calves. If we had a few that we thought were worth keeping as bulls we would sell them seperately as bulls and the sales reciept would say bulls.
Those would be sold by the head not by the pound.

Calves that have been clamped with a burdizzo at an older age can look like a bull................The scrotum is still intact. But upon closer examination, you can feel the testicles are shriveled or hardly there at all. Depends on what age it was done.

I guess my biggest question now is when is a calf mature enough to breed. If he is only 208 pounds, how old is he at the most? 3 months or 2 months? When will his equipment mature enough to work?

My neighbor said we need to wait until September and make sure he is healthy from the sale before we add a new stressor. He said he can't breed the heifers that big for at least 6 months? Any thoughts?

Bulls cn breed as young as 4 months but usually dont' till 6 months or latter. As the heifers are bigger that doesn't mean much bulls will get it done. He might already be a steer some people around here have steers that look like bulls not sure how though.

I think first you must fence off the heifers from anything remotely resembling a bull. (But something tells me you're not planning to do that if you're asking how old he has to be in order to breed.) You will be asking for trouble if you allow those yearling heifers to be bred (potential calving problems among other things). If they've already been exposed and possibly bred, I would terminate the pregnancy.

Then determine if these two "steers" are still intact. If not, then have them castrated when it's cooler. I agree that the change in environment is enough stress for now.

Do you have a large animal vet in your area?

The advice I was given locally was put the together and cut him in September after he calms down. They say he is to young to breed the heifers. I have no idea when he could breed them. That is why I am asking. Putting him separate other than just in the corral will require finding a pasture to borrow and trailering him. He has been in the corral since his arrival. The closest he has gotten to the heifers is to touch noses through the corral panels.

This is already august. He isn't going to breed anything next month.

Really? Cattle won't breed in the fall?

As was stated, bulls can breed very young. If breeding to a couple cows, anytime after 6 months. But... if turning out as a herd sire, we wait until they are 2 years old.

The main thing is... he can breed if he can reach the target on a cow.

As long as he isn't a jersy he shouldn't be a worry.

Nchobbyfarm, I fear you may be headed for a rude awakening -- 6 heifers that won't be old enough to safely breed until January and 2 "steers" that may in fact be bulls are pastured together because you don't have proper facilities.

Losing a heifer that's bred too young and her calf is no picnic. Why take a chance? If you value your animals and your investment, I hope you will rethink what you are doing and re-read the advice that has been posted on this thread.

Our sale barn has the paper from the seller with the sex on it as the seller declared it on delivery and a ring man who takes an educated guess .but as you say none who will take blame for a mistake .hope all workes out for ya and like me take the lesson and check em closer next time

Well after reading it all and since you asked for advice here is mine. He weighs 208 and will never be any easier to handle. at that weight the small cherrio type bander will do the job. Get one, crowd him in a corner with help or an alley or throw him and find out if he has testicles. Band him, give tetanus shot and the worry is over one way or the other. Banding a calf at that size is little stress. If you put it off he gets bigger, you wonder is he messing with the heifers, which is really not a concern at this time. Find out and take action. ps banding a calf that size will be easier with him standing and make sure you have both nuts before you release the band.

I will also comment that things are not all the same every where, some people seem to think that the way it is where they are is the way it is everywhere. Here a group of bull calves will be sold as bulls and the price will be discounted.

Thanks all. I have rented a second pasture to hold the bull calf and the steer. Yes he is a bull calf. I ran him in the corner to find out. The larger one is in fact a steer. I will move them tomorrow after work. They are still in the corral so loading should not be to hard and there is no way he can get to the heifers. Expensive lessons. I still don't believe he can reach these 500+ pound heifers but why chance it as several have stated.

i would go ahead and band him while you have him in the corral they do sell larger bands i always wait to band my calfs right before they are weaned but i have banded 300 pounds calf with no problem good luck