I think he is advocating the type of thinking that you need a moderate-sized (1000-1100 lb) cow that can manage on mainly grass and hay without a lot of supplementing and will wean a 500-550 lb. calf. In other words, a low input type of operation.

Compared to a 'high profit per cow' operation that has larger cows that wean calves that weigh a lot more but need more inputs and acreage to produce those calves. (1400 lb. cows that wean 750 lb. calves after a lot of supplemental feeding).

Stocking rate doesn't have much do with it besides the fact that you should be able to stock more 1100 lb. cows than 1400 lb. cows on the same acreage.

ramiller5675

Compared to a 'high profit per cow' operation that has larger cows that wean calves that weigh a lot more but need more inputs and acreage to produce those calves. (1400 lb. cows that wean 750 lb. calves after a lot of supplemental feeding).


Not trying to be argumentative but where would the profit be derived in the above statement?

You're right, there wouldn't be more profit because it would take more inputs to produce that calf.

But, I thought the article was trying to say that some people simply look at that 750 lb. calf and what they sold it for compared to what they could have sold a 500 lb. calf for without fully considering the inputs it took to produce that 750 lb. calf.

I'm not sure what the article was actually trying to say, but I know that a smaller cow that weans a smaller calf is usually an easier keeper and should be more profitable. And, big cows that wean bigger calves don't necessarily make you more money.

Beyond that, I don't know what the article was about.

This is where your management style plays the most important part... culling. You cull those hard keepers, low milk producers, slow gainers, etc. You can easily develop your herd to produce larger weaned calves than just 500 pounds with no additional supplements. Yes, sometimes during the winter, I will add protein either through tubs or liquid feed (QLF).

Keep in mind that buyers buying weaned calves want to see calves that are not too fleshy, calves that will have room to put on weight and in the least amount of time as possible. When those calves are bought, then the plans change to cost of gain per pound or the feed conversion rates, whereas the cow/calf operator isn't as concerned with feed conversion rates if he/she has a grass fed operation. BUT the operator is concerned with higher weaning weights, cows that have higher milk production resulting in heavier weaned calves.

As far as the poster that commented on the Holstein cross calves. Yes, they may grow very quickly. But, you will get hit hard at the sale barn because a cattle buyer can see the dairy in that calf, even if it doesn't look obvious to you. If you are wanting a cow/calf/beef operation, stick with traditional standard sized beef breeds for the highest rate of return.

Sorry for my 2 week absence. We took a couple foster boys camping at a lake for a few days. Then coming home, I have been working long days just to get some things caught up with no time for the forums.

PaulNKS

BUT the operator is concerned with higher weaning weights, cows that have higher milk production resulting in heavier weaned calves.


This is one of the very few areas that we are not in agreement. I want no more than a moderate milk producer to produce my calves. I feed nothing but forage all year. Some seasons my forage is not the best and that is what my cattle get. A heavy milk producing cow will give up body condition on marginal forage to support the calf. If the cow loses too much body condition she will either delay or not breed back timely. I want the cows producing calves and I want the calves to start consuming forage ASAP. Low cost forage is what I am marketing and as you stated the buyers are wanting calves with potential and they are not wanting to pay for pounds. I learned a long time ago that the buyers are a lot smarter than me at judging a calf. I try to produce what I believe they want and I watch the sale prices to observe what weights they are buying. I then compare where my forage supply exists and make my decision to sale or not. Trying to accomplish a weaning weight that may impress someone has no meaning to me. Neither does selling a calf a month early or late with my feed costs where they are. My best returns this year was on a lot of 412 lb. steers grossing $820 each. Even with plenty of good forage I would market calves here at less than 550 lbs at this time.

Even a beef cow with a body condition score of 5 is considered moderate to thin, but is ideal for rebreeding.

Not all heavy milking cows will lose body condition to a point of causing problems

The cow/calf beef game is all about genetics.....not necessarily registered vs. grade stock. Anyone can change the genetics within his/her herd through culling and breeding. You develop the herd you want.

PaulNKS and anyone else.
This ground may have been covered somewhat before but I wanted to get some opinions about bull calves and heifers running together.
I have some calves that are coming up on about 6 mo. old and the bull calves are trying to ride the heifers.
Is there any chance one of them could breed a heifer?, the heifers are not standing still for them and also the herd bull isn't interested either. He probably knows the young bulls don't know what their doing.
What say you?
PS They will weigh around 5 to 6 hundred#

Either cut the bulls or separate them (unless you band). Yes the heifers can breed as young as 9 months.. maybe sooner in some cases.

All producers have to remember that while you get a higher price by producing what buyers prefer, you may do better by producing what they're willing to buy, but costs you a lot less to produce. Most of us need to think "optimum production" rather than "maximum production".

I didn't mean to suggest that anyone use Holsteins in a cow calf operation. She's our dairy cow and I was simply pointing out that bigger is not necessarily better.

Please don't change what I write if you are going to quote me. I specifically stated that buyers want to see calves that are not too fleshy. I didn't state that buyers want to see "xyz" as in raising animals that may or may not change. This is a standard you will find anywhere in the country when selling commercial calves (i.e sale barn). They don't want fleshy calves. They want nice sized frames that they can add weight to. That's not just an opinion. It is fact.

Keep in mind that this thread was only started to explain how WE built and maintain a very profitable cow/calf operation and how we used that to build our land and cattle holdings and passing that information on to others that weren't as fortunate as us to be raised in it and come to it later in life. This is about us passing on information just to help others.

When you have a cow/calf operation, you aren't raising what the buyers may be willing to buy. You are raising what they dictate. You are raising what they WILL buy, not what they MIGHT buy. There is a big difference. If you don't raise what they dictate, your cow/calf operation will not utilize it's full profitability.

Didn't mean to offend. In attempting to save time typing, it often comes back to bite me.

I really liked this thread and thought it was a good place to ask this question. I'm doing better in this my 3rd year having cattle. My cattle lose condition late summer when the fescue starts to go dorment. What's the best way to fight this? I could give them feed if that's the answer but that's pretty pricy and honestly I don't have enough money to feed them for 6-10 weeks. I provided protein tubs this year and that has helped but still feel like something else is needed.

Overseed with a different grass that does better in late summer? You'll have less spring feed, more summer feed.