[QUOTE=Cliff;5971372]Maybe part of the problem is your evident perception that livestock should be pets. Livestock is livestock. You mention your "healthy relationship" with your animals. Where did you get the idea that we should have relationships with our livestock? My relationship with my livestock consists of me providing for their needs including caring for them when they're sick, within reason. If it's something that will cost more than the animal is worth to fix they are culled. Occasionally I will have a favorite which will occasionally afford that animal a little more latitude but in the end they are farm animals, not pets and not my family. This is real life, not a disney movie.

"Buried with respect?" Again, they are animals.

maybe you shouldn't be reading into more than you are.. i have a healthy relationship with my animals.. yes i do. and what i mean by that.. is i am with them all day.. and i am out with them.. checking fences and they do follow me around.. none would hurt me. i yell from across the field they come. i make sure they don't have cuts abrasions and such.i check there teats for possible injuries and they hold still. so if i am doing something wrong then let me know.. my husband cant even get that done...and sometimes i find stuff that isn't right. and it gets taken care of immediately.. even if i have to call a vet.

[QUOTE=shagerman;5971640]It's not wrong for you to do it that way, people are just upset that you're insistent that everyone else do it that way too.

I doubt it. It's probably exactly like pancho said; there's a big difference between those who make a living from their livestock and those who have a few pets. Not saying there's anything wrong with having pets btw, but don't expect me to take 800 head of mama cows and call them by name or check them daily for cuts and abrasions... ;)

Right, it's not wrong of you to make pets out of your livestock. To each his own as long as we aren't neglectful or doing harm. What is wrong is you expecting everyone else should do the same and you implying that we are somehow wrong or unethical in not doing so. And implying that we weren't raised right because we don't make pets our of our livestock? Come on, you are really crossing some lines here. Best quit before you bury yourself any deeper. Your whole attitude is remarkably offensive.

+1

From someone raised in ag, I too, find it offensive when people have this attitude.

I like the fact that city people want to move to the country and give it a shot.... I have a hard time believing that some would not realize they can't bring their city ways with them and expect things to change. When you move to a truly rural area, you are moving into an area that has a longstanding traditional culture that is so different from the city. You can't expect this new culture to change to suit what you THOUGHT it should be. That is what is offensive about the whole attitude.

I have seen so many times when a farmer/rancher gets called on because he is starving his animals... only to see the person complaining laughed at. When cattle are allowed to grub and graze and are in lactation, they will look a bit thin. If a cow is too fat, she will have trouble conceiving. If she is too fat at calving time, she will most likely have calving troubles.

I still stand by my point that the OP needs to mind his/her own business and not try to change a way of life in a culture to which he/she was not raised in and obviously does not understand or even comprehend.

i was raised on a farm. only i couldn't do anything because i was too young.. later on i got to feed the pigs. then the other animals

. and i was raised right..


later on it was turned into city land.. then in my 20s i was back on a farm. then off again. maybe my judgement isn't quite what other people want or like. but i do what i have to do... so now i am going to be bashed .. not at all... and if you don't like what i have to say.. then don't come back...its as simple as that.:cow::cow::cow:

You started out this thread by complaining that your neighbor left dead animals in the field for coyotes, and somewhere, maybe halfway through the discussion changed it to this thing of the cow being in the creek.

If a cow in the creek was the problem, that's what you should address. I feel like we are all over bunny trails with this whole discussion, since you seem to be changing it as we go along.

If there is, in fact, a cow decaying in the creek, you should call the neighbor whose cow it is, so that he can take care of the problem. No one wants an animal decaying in their water.

We had one to die in one of our ponds a few years back, when we had the fields under lease. We called the owner of the cow, who was sad for his loss, and came out almost immediately to take care of the problem. He dragged the animal to the back of our property (which is NOT near anyone's home) and the coyotes and buzzards took care of it in short order.

I do not believe that anyone deliberately has left an animal in a running creek.

you are putting words in my mouth, i never said everyone should do as i do. what i said was this certain person. shouldn't be leaving a dead cow in a creek. get it right.attitude.. you really haven't seen that yet..:catfight:. and may i say if you don't like what i have to say. stay out of this completely. i asked a question ... out here... and it has ran in several parallels ..which is interesting. i once heard that a farmer is the closest to gods heart... so adam must of been one hell of a guy..:cow::cow::cow:

i have went and talked to him.. i may as well have talked to a wall. and yes the cow is still there.in the creek. i don't care if one is in a field.. that's their choice.. i bury mine. because of the stink... and its been in the 90s up here.
i am giving only a few facts out here. if i gave it all you guys and gals would want to puke also. i said enough to stir a beehive.. and that's not what i wanted. i just wanted a simple answer.. but undoubtedly there is none.

Does the creek have water in it now? That makes a big difference to me.

Maybe i should started this whole thing. With what if and the situation? I bet on the odds it would have came out differently. But lesson has been learned. On how to put things out here.. And it has been interesting... But i wanted was a simple answer.. And i didn't get one.. Instead i got a beehive..

No words in your mouth. Direct quotes. Your first post said nothing about a creek. Later when people said this is normal, you said a cow had been pushed into a creek.

If this was just a complaint about the purity of your water supply, then it should have been part of the first post and a major part of your replies instead of going on and on about practices that sound normal.

I'm guessing the guy did nothing to help you because you had a bad attitude and he sees no advantage in being a good neighbor to you. Complainers will keep whining whatever you do, maybe if he annoys you enough you'll move away and he'll get a more friendly neighbor he will move cows out of the creek for.

Don't help him when his cows get out. If he really needs your help he'll make overtures to regain your friendship.

That is your opening post. I see nothing about creek or water. You made it appear that you were angry because he can afford to lose cattle and when he does, he doesn't call the meat truck. Then you ask who to call. The majority of us told you not to call anyone. It was part of the way of life and was none of your concern.

Then you added the creek into and then referred to them being half starved. I think the entire thing boils down to the fact that he is where you wish you could be and your jealousy and envy has prompted you to write this and try to find a way to make him miserable.

Then you say,

If you post something to a public forum asking opinions, don't get angry with the responses. I have as much right to voice my opinion here as you do....

I still say you should just let it go, unless there is one in the creek, if that creek doesn't end on his property. Then you should speak with him first. If that doesn't work, then you should contact your state department of health. .

...if there really is one in the creek.

You did get a simple answer, several times. The answer was and still is that if the cows aren't starving to death then mind your own business. You don't seem to want to hear that but that is our answer.

I will repeat that it is not illegal not to call a vet. Who do you think you would call and what would you say? You have no case for anything unless there really is a cow rotting in the creek. Even then they will just ask the guy to move the carcass. You aren't going to gain anything by calling anyone except that you will be laughed at and considered a silly meddling woman who has no clue about real farm life. No I am not calling you names, I'm telling what the good ole boys will think of you. In fact that's probably why the neighbor is already ignoring you. And if you do call someone and raise a stink now about him not calling the vet, cows rotting in the field etc, if you ever do have anything valid to complain about they will remember and not take you seriously.

If you had posted this as a what if scenario you would've gotten the same responses.

A month ago I had animal control called on me because I had a cow that was thin. She was a milking Jersey cow that had developed a bad leg. Animal control said I HAD to get a vet out to look at her within 24 hours. This cow, was very much a family pet and family milk cow. She was in a pasture of grass that was belly deep on her. She had plenty of water and plenty of food. However, three people (whose names I cannot get) decided she was not taken care of properly. Could have been neighbors of mine. So the vet came out and looked at her. Said he couldn't tell what the cause was, but her ankle was swollen and sore. It could have been caused by some trauma or she may have cancer or ... this list is endless. So I was given two choices - kill her or take her to town for slaughter. I ended up shooting the cow. The vet bill cost over $100. She was a lactating Jersey and yes they get a bit thin when milking heavy. The hurt ankle slowed her down and caused more weight loss for sure. But she was taken care of. I never got to face my accuser. There was no trial. No one even asked any relevant questions. She sure wasn't malnourished. Cows eat grass - I doubt the folks who called even realized she was standing in a field of food. I just think in the land of the free and home of the brave, people need to be more real. Part of freedom is that people are free to say and do stupid things. For me it goes back to the golden rule and you can solve a lot of problems with that simple rule - DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU.

I hope that puts things into perspective. As for my advice, like I said before - as hard as it is for you - you need to bite your tongue. The only exception would be the cow in an actively flowing creek in which the water supply will be contaminated. If the creek is dry - I am sure the buzzards and coyotes will have it cleaned up soon if it isn't already. The one I shot was gone in a week. Yes, even the family pet cow got set out for the critters to get at. Our ground is clay and rock. A hole big enough to properly bury a cow will take some heavy equipment, which I don't own. You sure can't do it with a shovel. Like I said, the critters had her gone in under a week. Right now you can't even find bones, most of them have been drug off.

Just learn to look the other way. Everyone has their own way of doing things. He isn't going to listen to you (as you said) and he isn't going to change what he does. Bite your tongue and look the other way. Move to a new place if it bothers you that much.

OK folks. Let's all step back and take a few deep breaths. Post is starting to go a little too much personal.

Ken Scharabok
Forum Coordinator

So the meddling do-gooders caused you to have to kill your family milk cow. That is horrible. I sure hope they know what they "accomplished." If I were you I'd make sure everyone in the area knew.

To the op, this is a prime example of why country folk really really hate when people who don't understand farming meddle in things that aren't their business.

I would have found another vet and/or fought animal control tooth and nail.

That would have cost even more money and to what end? It was a great time for a lesson to my kids and I think a lesson to those on here as well. I doubt my kids ever forget the trauma caused because some people thought they were doing the right thing. If those folks had took a moment to ponder the golden rule or realized they only had partial facts, the outcome may have been very different. She could have had a full recovery. Now it is very unlikely:):grin:

Cliff - I hear you! I did not make a big deal out of it. Not even sure who to complain to. This is a very rural area, but we are right off the highway. People could be a few states away and have just been passing through. Or they could be my neighbors..

Now dang it, Ken said cool it!:huh:

This is a second warning. Calm down folks or I will either lock or delete thread.

Ken Scharabok
Forum Coordinator

It is real hard for me to understand people who think they are helping when the animal they supposedly care so much about is killed.

Do these people think the cow is better off now?

I still don't get why the cow had to be killed. The vet came out, gave their professional opinion that the cow was not being abused/neglected, so why wasn't there some time allowed to see if her condition could be improved?

If the cow had to be put down, that is like acknowledging that whoever made the report was right, she was actually in that bad of shape. Please understand I'm not accusing, just trying to understand it.

Ken if you see this please delete it.. It has went way to far out of what i was trying to accomplish... Its beginning to be a 3 ring circus, and that's not what i wanted at all.

I will lock it. There were some quite valid opinions expressed and some venting done as well.