Butcher older cow

Hexe · #21 05/28/12, 09:34 AM

Yeah, she's a very tame, good animal. Calm, good to be around and comes when called, like a dog. Why couldn't it have been the loud, cranky 11-year old?...

Plowpoint · #22 05/28/12, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonelyfarmgirl

It wasn't so much a flavor thing as it was a tenderness thing. We found that those raised on corn feed or corn silage were tough as older animals, and those raised without grain were tender as older animals. We found that balage did not have the same effect as corn silage.

I tried raising a beef cow in the "new" style and it just did not work. I gave him grass and hay only, no grain, let him free range with the sheep and slaughtered him at 14 months. The results were disappointing.

A very strong flavor, extremely tough, no fat and little marbling of the meat, and this was on a Holstein so the fat and marbling content should have been excellent (dairy breeds do that the best).

I asked my Uncle about it (50 years in the dairy and beef farming industry) and he said I did everything wrong in order to get flavor and tenderness. Slaughtering him early was fine, but he suggested giving them grain, keeping them tightly penned up, and feeding silage and no hay.

After raising beef cows both ways (always Holsteins) I must say that I will never raise a grass fed only cow again. I still have some of it in my freezer and pull it out from time to time just to remind myself how much better grain fed beef really is. (Just teasing you...everyone is different I guess).

lonelyfarmgirl · #23 05/28/12, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Plowpoint

After raising beef cows both ways (always Holsteins) I must say that I will never raise a grass fed only cow again. I still have some of it in my freezer and pull it out from time to time just to remind myself how much better grain fed beef really is. (Just teasing you...everyone is different I guess).

well here is your problem. Holsteins are not beef cattle. If al youv'e ever donae are Holsteins, youv'e never raised beef cattle.
Holsteins arent bred for that. Also, usually a strictly grass fed animal needs to be raised to 2 or 3 years.

Try a beef breed before you knock it.

Plowpoint · #24 05/28/12, 07:17 PM

Maybe, I know Holstein's have a heavy bone structure so that would require grain, and maybe that would explain the lack of marbling. I know Holstein's are second to Jersey's as far as marbling quality goes, but maybe that is because most Jersey's and Holstein's are heavily grained at their dairy farm homes...not that we have any option, they got to be in order to give any milk quantity. I do know however that Jersey was rated the best tasting steak for the past 7 years running, with Holstein running second. If grain is the reason for the marbling, then it lends a pretty strong argument for graining cows I'm thinking???

As far as graining goes, our cows have a nutritionist that tests the feed every two weeks. Because our milk check is completely dependent upon the quality of the milk, we have done a lot of things these last few years in order to get the milk quality up (we are a gold standard farm). We chop grass now at boot stage...whether or not the corn has been planted or not, just so we get high protein silage. Then with our corn, we installed a $40,000 cracker option on the chopper so that the individual corn kernels get cracked so that the cows get more nutrition out of the corn and does not just "pass through". All this adds up to a lower grain bill which means profit...or no profit...here in Maine anyway.

I say all this because I understand why people are grass-fed only; we try to reduce our imput costs as well to make extra money on the profit side of things, I just sometimes think people forget that you can't leave something out of the feed ration and then expect to have a decent end product...whether it be steak or milk. In our case we don't cut grain out of our feed ration, we just produce a higher crop of it ourselves so we are not paying so much for it.

As for beef cows, we do raise a hundred or so Black Angus for the beef industry. It's not a lot because we want the numbers to be low enough so that it does not encroach upon the dairy operation. With so few it doesn't make a dent in our silage pile, and it only takes a few minutes longer to feed them up as you feed up the heifers in the barn next door. We take the money we get from them and buy our play toys; a motorcycle last year, maybe a snowmobile, that kind of thing. Something we can all have fun on and share.

It's an interesting conversation in any case. And no, I'm not just trying to crank you up. If you want that, just read the latest issue of Progressive Farmer, they bashed grass-fed only cattle with more bluntness, and with less words, then I have. It is another convincing argument though for graining cows.

lonelyfarmgirl · #25 05/28/12, 09:51 PM

Really! I'll have to check that out. we get progressive farmer. We keep telling them we dont want it and they keep sending it.

Angus are kind of the same way. Angus and Holstein have been SO genetically screwed with, its hard to get a decent product without the grain. The angus that win at the fair look like giant pigs on stilts. Other beef breeds are different. They have been raised with all factors in mind, ie..good feet, mothering ability, hardiness, disease resistance, etc.. Angus and holstein arent. Fast beef and more milk. All the rest goes by the wayside.

The 'other' beef breeds, well, the ones we have raised at least, dont require grain to marble. Our 3 year olds are nicely marbled, but lightly marbled.

ufo_chris · #26 05/29/12, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonelyfarmgirl

We have butchered many older animals. How it will be is directly affected by what you have fed that animal.
If you have fed grain AT ALL, most especially corn or corn silage, then put her in hamburger (except the tenderloins). If she has been STRICTLY grass fed, process as you would an 18 month old steer.

We shipped an 18 year old cow last summer (yes a highland). Her steaks went into the retail freezer with all the rest.
In 2008, we shipped a 4 year old highland/hereford cross bull. He was 2000 pounds of grass fed muscle. His steaks were fork tender. We are still eating his roasts and they are delicious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozark_jewels

Obviously not lonelyfarmgirl, but we have always had chest freezers big enough for meat to get lost in. Thus we have eaten 3-5 year old breef quite often in getting to the bottom of our freezers. It was wrapped in plain old butchers paper from the processor. Was just fine. I have gotten "outdated" beef from a few people over the years, to feed to my dogs. But my "outdated" beef gets eaten by us.

Wow, thanks, that's good to know!

Plowpoint · #27 05/29/12, 02:32 AM

Yeah Black Angus are kind of a funny breed that are over-marketed for sure. We raise them because people want that breed, but other then a VERY successful marketing campaign, I am not sure if people really know why. I say that because in order to be a "certified black angus" the cow only has to be 1/8th Black Angus to qualify. That just seems kind of wrong to me. I could see 25% or something like that, but I am supposed to believe that a cow that is 1/8 Black Angus, and say 7/8's Seminole, is somehow going to be superior in taste and quality because it has 13% Black Angus in it??? Come on, the cow is a Seminole.

We had a nice Black Angus cow as a kid though and raised it a few years. We doted on it and it was a nice cow (not saying because it was a Black Angus, just saying it was a nice cow because it was well cared for that just happened to be a Black Angus). Anyway we brought it to the slaughterhouse and the guy told us we would get 15 cents more per pound if we sold it for Kosher Beef. We are all about making more money, so we agreed and stuck around to see it slaughtered.

That is quite the process. They used a big sword and had this pillow on a fork truck, and when they used that sword, it was so sharp I thought it was going to lob that cows head clean off. It was cool to see slaughtering done in that unique fashion, but at the same time, kind of traumatizing for a 5 year old. Still going to therapy over that one and I am 38 now! (LOL)

They say at the shipyard where I work they are having a lay-off and in a lot of ways I hope I get it. Farming all day, and then building US Navy Destroyers at night has been a little hard on me lately with so much to do on the farms. As you can probably tell, I would much rather talk cows and sheep then build glorified canoes.

lonelyfarmgirl · #28 05/29/12, 06:58 AM

Plowpoint, that is retarded. kind of like the government claiming something is real beef when its 7/8 fillers!
Interesting about the kosher slaughter. I wonder why a sword is considered kosher and not a bullet?

Dreamfarm · #29 05/29/12, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonelyfarmgirl

Really! I'll have to check that out. we get progressive farmer. We keep telling them we dont want it and they keep sending it.

Angus are kind of the same way. Angus and Holstein have been SO genetically screwed with, its hard to get a decent product without the grain. The angus that win at the fair look like giant pigs on stilts. Other beef breeds are different. They have been raised with all factors in mind, ie..good feet, mothering ability, hardiness, disease resistance, etc.. Angus and holstein arent. Fast beef and more milk. All the rest goes by the wayside.

The 'other' beef breeds, well, the ones we have raised at least, dont require grain to marble. Our 3 year olds are nicely marbled, but lightly marbled.

What about Angus Lowline? do you think they would need grain as well to be delicious? I know a guy who does grass fed Angus Lowline, he wins at the county fair. I was thinking of getting some breeding stock from him. Perhaps I should taste his beef first.

ramiller5675 · #30 05/29/12, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonelyfarmgirl

...Angus and Holstein have been SO genetically screwed with, its hard to get a decent product without the grain.... Other beef breeds are different. They have been raised with all factors in mind, ie..good feet, mothering ability, hardiness, disease resistance, etc.. Angus and holstein arent. Fast beef and more milk. All the rest goes by the wayside.

The 'other' beef breeds, well, the ones we have raised at least, dont require grain to marble. Our 3 year olds are nicely marbled, but lightly marbled.

I guess I'll have to sell the Black Angus herd I've got and get me some of those super-efficient breeds you're talking about that take 3 years to finish.

Since my steers will finish at about 20 months (although they do get a few cubes in the one winter they have to go through, so they aren't grass-finished), they must be some of that "fast beef" you're talking about.

And, it's nonsense to suggest that Black Angus breeders aren't breeding for good feet, mothering, hardiness, and disease resistance.

Dreamfarm,
don't listen to advice from someone that has probably never had any Black Angus cattle, has some sort of bias against Black Angus, and thinks it should take 3 years to finish a steer (either grass-finished or grain-fed).

lonelyfarmgirl · #31 05/29/12, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ramiller5675

I guess I'll have to sell the Black Angus herd I've got and get me some of those super-efficient breeds you're talking about that take 3 years to finish.

Since my steers will finish at about 20 months (although they do get a few cubes in the one winter they have to go through, so they aren't grass-finished), they must be some of that "fast beef" you're talking about.

And, it's nonsense to suggest that Black Angus breeders aren't breeding for good feet, mothering, hardiness, and disease resistance.

Dreamfarm,
don't listen to advice from someone that has probably never had any Black Angus cattle, has some sort of bias against Black Angus, and thinks it should take 3 years to finish a steer (either grass-finished or grain-fed).

WOW! Talk about assuming and talking out of somewhere else. You don't know anything about my experience with black angus cattle, so you shouldn't assume.

I never said it should take 3 years to finish a steer. What I said (quote) Also, usually a strictly grass fed animal needs to be raised to 2 or 3 years. Last I studied math, 20 months is just shy of 2 years.

Time depends on the actual breed, the time of year born, the quality of the pasture and how long the calf got to nurse before weaning.

My statement about not breeding for an all around well-to-do animal was aimed at two things. First, the CAFO animals..most ESPECIALLY holsteins. Holsteins are rampant with ridiculous problems due to the fact that they are bred for more milk and nothing else. I know this for a FACT. I live smack in the middle of holstein country and I see it everyday in both the small 50 head milk lot and the 4000 cow dairies.
This is less of a problem in the angus herds, but still a problem. Its bad with the 4H crowd. Those kids are taught to keep only the fastest growing angus and to stuff the living daylights out of them with corn and mill feed.

They look like pigs on stilts. I've watched the behavior of the angus at the fair with those kids. Aggressive and skiddish. I know how the guy with the angus herd around the corner raises his, and the guy up the road the other way. Aggressive, skiddish, problematic corn stuffed monsters. We've had angus. We got rid of them. I've only been a 4H leader for 8 years. Thats all. I only deal with the angus issues every single year. I only talk to the farmers around here that raise angus that are too stupid to see outside of the 'mill told me to do it' box.

Of course this doesn't describe ALL the angus out there, but dang it sure covers a lot of them.

Oh, wait, I must be full of poopy. You ASSUMED I know nothing. My bad.

ramiller5675 · #32 05/29/12, 09:15 PM

8 years of experience as a 4H leader only means you have 8 years of experience as a 4H leader. 4H methods of feeding steers have almost no relevance to the commercial beef herd and the results from these steers say nothing about the cattle in commercial beef herds.

Experience with the "stupid" farmers in your local area that stuff their cattle with corn means you have experience with the "stupid" farmers in your local area that stuff their cattle with corn. They would probably have "aggressive, skiddish, problematic corn stuffed monsters" regardless of the breed of cattle.

I still say it's nonsense to suggest that Black Angus breeders aren't breeding for good feet, mothering, hardiness, and disease resistance.

lonelyfarmgirl · #33 05/29/12, 09:28 PM

Well then maybe i should say, in MY EXPERIENCE and the years of my limited scope of raising cattle of many breeds, people that raise angus want big, fast, and marbled, for the most money possible. Black is best, and they dont care how it gets finished, so long as its big and fast. The rest of the survival instincts and healthy necessities an animal requires to be an all around good quality animal aren't as important as fast, black and big.

My experience and knowledge apparently mean little to nothing and since I haven't traveled the country to get a good all around view of the vast majority of black angus herds, my experiences are invalid. YOU, of course seem to be the KING of BLACK ANGUS production.

ramiller5675 · #34 05/29/12, 10:37 PM

I never said your experiences were invalid, but a person can't and shouldn't make broad conclusions from a somewhat limited experience.

The entire cattle industry can't be composed of a bunch of "stupid" farmers that are raising a bunch of high-strung, unthrifty black-hided cattle.

lonelyfarmgirl · #35 05/30/12, 07:32 AM

Alas, you have described the majority, present company excepted. Much more holstein than angus though.