keeping a bull....tell me what to expect?

I was able to keep a Dexter bull behind field fence with a hot wire on the inside. He had a nice calm temperament. But I never had to separate him from a heifer in heat like you'll be doing. And even quiet bulls like to knock things around with their heads. Really rough on feeders and waterers. Mine liked to fight the water trough. It made quite a mess.

All excellent advise. I use hot wire here on all of my pastures to keep my Anatolian Shepherds respectful of fences and to help with predators. Adding an extra strand at the cattle's nose height will be very easy.

KyCrawler, I especially appreciate your bull handling tips. I think there is a fine line between being halter broken and being tame. I do plan to treat the heifer like a pet because I want to milk her and also tie her out but the bull calf won't get the same attention. I will do exactly as you suggest. And I do plan to dehorn him using the heavy band method I have seen many people mention. I just need to locate someone who has that kind of bander for rent.

I have the $40 branding iron style dehorner that i mail ordered from the tractor supply website . They work excellent i burn about 175-200 holstien and jersey calves a year . Your calves may be to large to use this on . If you go that route use a cheap pair of clippers to remove the hair around the horn base . I just pin them against a fence panel shave and then burn . You will need a strong person or 2 to hold the calf to get a good burn . I would burn the heifers horns also while she is young much easier to do it now than later I have tipped a few of my own cows horns with a keystone dehorner and it is now for the squeamish . Burning is my much preferred method .

Also dont count on hot wire for a bull . I HAD a 1800 lb angus bull who would walk up to a wood 6 inch post lean push a shoulder on it and snap them off at the ground . He would then turn around and sit on the fence 48 inch field fence with 2 strands of barb with electric squash it down and then walk through the hole

I kept bulls a couple times and decided never again, based on the above. Bulls are born to fight, and if they don't have anybody to beat up on, they'll go after whatever. I forgot and left a wheelbarrow in the pasture one day and returned to find it demolished. Or them beating up on fences.

Do you have any dairies around? I found a young fellow with a dairy nearby who's been very good doing my AI. I pay him more than he asked to keep him interested, which is still alot cheaper than a bull's damage and feed bill. And as mentioned, I can pick semen from the world's best.

On the other hand, you might want to keep him a bull just for the experience.

Where you buy your bull from makes a difference, some breeders are known for very docile bulls, that being said, never trust a bull, training is required, respect from bull and human alike is needed.

Carol K

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Hopefully I won't have this bull around long enough for him to become really obnoxious. Dexters are known for having good temperaments and this breeder's cattle are all even tempered. Once my tentative selections are made (based on temperament, mom's udder, and parentage), I will get the breeder to send off more tail hairs to test the bull for PHA and Chondro. I plan to choose a tall bull calf and a shortie heifer but I know that's not 100%. The breeder did tell me that in the 8 years she has raised these cattle, she has never had any PHA or chondro issues so she does not routinely test for them....but will be happy to submit samples for me if I would like them tested. I think I'll get the heifer checked for A2 as well.

Our bull is nearly 10 and he likes to be scratched on his neck. But he does not like to be petted on the head. Going for the head is a sign of aggression to all bulls, no matter how docile, so avoid that movement. And don't let your older bull think you're a 1000 lb. round bale of hay either because I see ours toss it like a beach ball all the time if I don't set it down the way he likes it.

If he is well trained to the hot wire, there is nothing better except solid wood or steel fencing 5' high to keep him in place. Make sure your hot fence is really hot, that's all (ours makes me cry when I touch it). Right now because of our bulls age we limit the amount of pasture he has to run in, but we have him in with some open cows. He has stayed put for the past three months with just a single hot wire at about 30" high.

Handled properly, and out of good parents with good temperament, I see no reason why you can't keep him around until you get a couple of calves out of him.

That's good to know. I know I'll be able to get one calf out of him. Keeping him away from her until she's old enough to breed will be the only real challenge, but since he will be young then, it's not going to be too tough with my woven wire fences along with hot wire inside to keep him off the fences. I think after that first breeding, I may be able to get by with just letting them stay together. And I'll play it by ear after that. If he is respectful of me and fences, he can stick around. He will be dehorned for sure though.

DJ....no dairies around here. There are no large beef producers in this area either. Come to think of it, there are no cows at all within probably a few miles of me. That actually should help keep the bull happier, since he won't be picking up the scent of cows in season except for my own heifer.

My opinion is exactly the opposite from this.
There is no reason to keep him a bull. a bull will eat more in a month than what AI will cost.

Be mindful AND be afraid. I know several people that have been mauled or killed by a quiet bull. I wish they had been afraid so they wouldn't have gotten into a place that gave the bull an opportunity to crush them.

Not being able to escape the bull pen is one reason I thought about using fence that's got a space near the ground, so an adult could roll under the fence. So maybe use 3' field fence but install so the top is 4' high and there is a 12" gap at the bottom. Or I may make him a pen out of round-pen panels because they have a space at the bottom too. It would be easy to hot-wire it as well.

I will never trust a bull. I know that even though this is a small breed, he will still out-weigh me by a long way and I know what he could do if he wanted to.

since there are no cattle farms around here, having AI done may be impossible. I don't plan on feeding him past calf age. He will grow out on pasture and hay (if necessary). I may put the corn to him when he is nearing slaughter age. He won't cost much to feed but I still don't see keeping him long-term.

Sorry, but this is not good enough. Never having had any issues means the breeder has not had aborted or dead calves (or does not know if she did); it does not indicate if the animals carry PHA or Chondro. A breeder who does not routinely test her herd raises a red flag to me (unless she already knows the status of each and every animal in her herd). Testing and identifying carriers is important because it enables one to make appropriate breeding decisions for the animals. If you are not up to snuff on these genetic issues, I suggest that you read up on them and know what they mean:

http://www.dextercattle.org/genetics.htm

You might want to get in touch with the ADCA regional director for South Carolina (Charles Townson) and get some advice on selecting animals. His contact information is charles@beavertreefarm.com. Feel free to use my name if you want.

Thanks for your input. I have talked to Charles on the Dexter forum. I have also done a lot of reading up on PHA and Chondro and it does concern me. I do plan on getting them tested once I get them home. If the heifer tests positive for either of these two things and the bull does as well, then I will use Charles' bull for breeding and band my bull calf (his bull is negative for both). I will be choosing a shortie heifer and a long legged bull so even though that is no indicator for PHA and not even a real thorough indicator of chondro, it's the best I can do for now.

This breeder is selling the heifers for quite a bit less than what most folks are selling them for around here and is giving me the bull calf for free, so red flags or not....it's a good deal. In the ideal world I'd love to have them tested prior to getting them but that will mean several trips to the farm.....one to make my selections and then again to pick them up (after testing). This breeder is a good distance away so I'd rather not make two trips if possible.

If your bull is good breeding stock, depending on the Dexter population in your area, you might be able to rent him out to people like yourself, who only have one or two cows they need to have bred. Naturally, he'd have to have a good temperament and be halter broken, but it's totally doable. I rented a bull this past fall. It turns out he wasn't quite up to the job, and I wanted to rent his Dad instead, but he was booked all through the winter, 45 days at each place, $75 per cow, and another $125 per calf if they want registration application papers for it. Seems like a really good way to have someone else raise your beef for you, and it would be doing a service for other small farmers in your area. And Dexter bulls do make fabulous beef. I've eaten several, purely grass raised, and they were all really tasty.

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That's a great idea. But since this area isn't really strong on cattle, I am not sure how many people would be interested. I guess it's certainly worth exploring though. thanks!

There is a little more to renting out a bull than having him halter broke or with a nose ring. Vaccinations and health testing need to be regularly performed on the bull plus on the cows you expect to service. You don't want your bull coming into contact with a "Typhoid Mary" and subsequently passing it on to your cows or other people's cows.

very true....and another concern is that the farm have adequate fencing so they don't lose my bull. I am not sure how comfortable I'd feel leaving a valuable animal at someone else's house and trusting them to keep him safe.

Yes, the other aspect is injury or loss. You need a well written contract in the event anything happens. We're currently in a lawsuit over a yearling Highland bull we leased (at a nominal fee for a past customer of one of our heifers) who broke himself in the process of trying to breed. Though he was going to be steered when he returned to us after a few months, he was to be returned in substantially the same condition as he arrived. We set a dollar value if he wasn't.

Well, frozen is not the same condition, and since he was less than half the size he otherwise would have been and hadn't been finished properly, the meat is less than ideal. Not to mention we weren't prepared for it and had to get another freezer to hold him, and so it just sits while we wait to resolve it.

Our Dexter bull has sired the current (and many time) national champion Dexter cow. There is no way anything other than his collected semen leaves our farm, or he is used on anything that puts him at risk.

Well, mine won't be a valuable show animal....he is destined for the freezer...but I would like to keep him safe and healthy until that time. I guess renting him out is not going to happen.

The contract I signed when I rented the bull said that I would return him in the same healthy condition or would pay his replacement cost of $2500. Some people are comfortable renting out bulls and some are not.

I personally would look the place over when I delivered him to see that fencing, feed, housing, and especially the current condition of the cows to be bred and the other animals on the place, were up to my standards. I would also make sure he was the only bull on the place, and I would put that in the contract. I would also drop by now and then to see how he was getting on.

I think you can make anything scary, like animals giving birth, for example, but for the vast majority of the time, it works out just fine. I mean, if someone had a nice bull available that you could rent, and you weren't getting a free bull calf, we probably wouldn't even be having this conversation, right? Of course, it's up to you. I just don't think it would be all that difficult to make it work out very nicely.

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The basic message of liberalism is simply: The true measure of a society is how it treats the weak and the needy. A simple Christian message (Matthew 25:40). -Garrison Keillor