Just waiting on the vet...milk fever.
 

My poor Elenore. She is holding on but...looking very bad. Of course it is Sunday...of course it is New Years...of course even though I read up on Milk Fever prevention and did what I knew to do....here we are. She is down. She was flat although now I have her propped up with square bales. But the vet is now on his way. He was in church. The other vet is out of town. Please keep your fingers crossed.

fingers crossed for a much happier, perkier Elenore very very soon!

Next time she calves, or any cow you might have, you might try giving them a high potency calcium gel at birth to help not get this in the future.

Hope she gets to feeling better soon!

I've been reading about this and I'm curious...was she on an alfalfa diet before she calved? Or on a high legume pasture or hay before calving?

You can get large pills and an injector from your vet. If you are experienced some vets will let you IV. Had it happen twice and she was back on her feet within about twenty minutes.

Actually, I had given her that calcium tube prior to calving but in the confusion last night didn't get the second down her right after calving and I thought she would be ok till this morning.
Her diet was grass hay and about 2 gallons of a 14% - 16% feed. I had worried about milk fever and ketosis and so had that diet and then gave her warm water with molasses in it after calving...about 8 gallons total and in that was 1 qt of molasses. Starting about 3 days ago I put a handful of those little alfalfa cubes in her grain just as a treat but they were broken into small pieces and consisted of about 3 handfuls a day. Nothing really.
The vet said the only thing he would have suggested was a little more calcium in her diet prior to calving and that really....he couldn't have thought of anything he would have done different at that point in time. Also said she was as far gone as any animal he's ever had. She is up now but is very shaky. He said she would be from all the stuff he put in her. I know he put calcium into the IV (I think a total of 3 bottles in the vein...given slowly and in intervals and then one bottle in the flank he said would disperse slower and last longer) and then gave her a shot of phospherus into the vein due to her reactions to the calcium. She did good after the first two bottles and looked good, then just zoned back out and started slumping again. So then he gave her a third bottle and she did the same thing. Did good and then started to slump back and so he gave her the phospherus into the vein and she started looking alive for real but was still very....out of it. That is when he gave another bottle of the calcium into the flank. He also have her another shot of something that was similar he said to prednisone to help with the swelling of her eye where she had banged it into the wall and also to somehow help with the stuff he had given her but I can't remember the connection. Sorry. Long morning. He didn't want to leave till she was standing though because of her foot, he thought she had hurt it cause it wasn't supporting her weight. But after several attempts and 2 hrs, we were able to get her standing and sort of supporting herself with the wall and she is still standing and even drunkenly walking.

Ya know...with a start to the new year like this....I'm really worried. But...although it did start bad...she is still alive and so hopefully the day will end good so I guess I need to keep that in mind if this is a stink year.

Oh and he also gave her a tube of that Cal-Mag gel and left me a tube to give her if she is still looking weak later. I am almost to the point of giving it to her tonight no matter what. Just to be safe. I know she liked her molasses water and he said it wouldn't hurt her if she liked it, see if she would drink it. I took and she looked at it but wouldn't drink it so....we're not out of the woods yet I guess.

We have a friend that gives maple syrup to his dairy cattle with milk fever. he has 200 head of holstiens....says he pours a quart either in a bucket if they seem like they are going to eat it, or he pours it in their mouth. He swears by it. Just a thought.....

I have some I will try it here in a bit. I am not sure if she has drank her molasses water yet as she wouldn't drink it while I was standing there. Not sure she is up to drinking I think.

Wondering...she is still shuffling her feet around, still not interested in food or water but is standing with somewhat alert eyes. Should I go ahead and give her that tube of cal-mag the vet left? She is still trembling in her rear end too. But it has only been about an hour and a half since the vet left???

Call the vet and ask him.

The reason I was asking is from what I've read, what causes it is a diet high in calcium before calving and that they should be on a grass hay diet only and then calcium at calving, so I was curious of your experience. I'm sorry you had to go through this with your cow, but have learned a bit from you. I haven't had to go through this yet with any of ours, so it's nice to know. So, you're vet suggested a diet higher in calcium before calving? That would make sense to me as that's what is suggested for goats to keep them from getting that, but it didn't seem to be that way for cows according to what I read.
Hope she has a full recovery! Did the vet mention whether or not her milking ability may go way down after this? I read that it may and wondered if he thought so?

I could see it going down as she is right now not wanting to drink and almost acting as something would in shock. He said to milk her tonight but to see how she is doing and go from there as he didn't want her body to stress trying to produce.

Allenslabs, hope she gets better fast. I just had two of mine calve, one on the 21st and one on the 25th and so far no issues with MF or Ket. On the advice of a 75 year old dairy farmer I met last summer, I have been pouring the molasses to all three of my pregnant girls for the past 3 months and have them all on full feed (beet pulped soaked in hotwater with a cup of liquid molasses in it, corn and a mixed ration of distillers grain, etc. we buy bulk), plus all the grass hay they want. So far, knock on wood, its worked like a charm. He has been dairying for about 60 years and says its wrong to cut their feed before they calve. He says a cow is like a woman, her body needs a well balanced diet and lots of calories to have a healthy baby and the energy to feed it. Hope yours gets better quick.

I'm curious....what does molasses and/or maple syrup have in it that cows need? The only way you can buy molasses around here is by the little tiny jar at the store. You can get it at the co-op, but it's dried powder. Does the powder work as well as the liquid?

They will be shaky after the calcium. It's a good sign if she's staying on her feet. Do her ears feel warm or cold?

Important thing now is to get her eating (and drinking) at least within the next 12-24 hours. We had a cow with milk fever on the dairy where I work about 2 weeks ago ... she wasn't eating very well until I brought in a bucket of 12% sweet feed, the stuff I give my cows. That got her attention, and she ate clear down to the bottom of her feed bucket that night, chasing down every grain. LOL! She is turned out with the milking string now and doing fine; you'd never guess there had been anything wrong with her.

I'd say offer her anything she might find tempting ... slices of bread, bananas, warm water. Ketosis and fatty liver are the enemies now.

Her ears are cold. She is in the barn, out of the wind and I put an old horse saddle blanket over her back while she's laying down to make sure her temp doesn't drop. I am not sure how to make her eat. I brought some alfalfa cubes in and soaked them in hot water to try and make a mash that maybe I could get in her. I have a feeling we will be having the vet out first thing in the morning again.

If she's down again, I would call the vet right away. The longer she's down, the worse it is. Don't wait.

I sure wish you had some good alfalfa hay to give her now, that would do some good. She is not out of the woods yet, she must still have some problems. Cold ears and dry nose is Milk fever trait, some of the old timers have even said to give them milk to drink, but I have never tried this. And don`t milk her out all the way yet today, just enough to relieve the preasure, to feed the calf. Milking her will only draw more calcium out of her system. Knock on wood, I have never had to give more than the tubes of calcium to a few cows for milk fever. I never feed anything but grass hay to dry cows, and have little if no trouble with milk fever. Keep in touch with that vet, I also have a feeling you will need him again. Good Luck. > Marc

Is she sitting up (good) or lying flat on her side (bad)?

If the latter, I'd consider calling the vet back.

Keeping her warm and dry and out of the wind is good.

I would actually expect her to go down again. 4 bottles of calcium? In a Jersey? Ours (large for Jerseys) get one bottle at a time tops...given sub-Q. If they don't show signs of enough improvement within 6-8 hours, they were given a second bottle sub-Q. Hale Bopp required this every time she calved. Not many others. One was enough, but we get to them shortly after going down, which makes a difference.
You have a battle on your hands.
She needs something, but at this stage more calcium is just going to make it worse. Her system is overloaded. It will flush what is in there, but she does sound like she is crashing again.
Vets always want them up and standing before leaving, mostly because owners have insisted on it in the past. A cow with milk fever needs time to recover. Sub-Q provides that. It takes time for them to recover. They aren't standing that soon after but when they do get up, they tend to stay up. While they are down you keep them propped up and warm.
We had too many cows killed by vets insisting on multiple bottles of calcium in our Jerseys. It is why I did the thread of sub-Q treatment for Milk Fever.

I really don't know what to tell you but I am seriously concerned about the amount of calcium forced into her system. I hope the best for Elenore and for you.

I was thinking the same thing, most jersey`s can`t handle this much. Best of Luck, I`ll say a prayer for you and your cow. > Thanks Marc

She is laying down but up, not lying flat. When I go out her head comes up along with her ears but she doesn't have any interest in food or drink. I have been soaking those alfalfa cubes and they are good and soft now and intend on taking them out to her here in a few along with some bread or crackers or anything else I can think she'll eat. She's not much on treats so not sure on that one. HOping she'll like bread though.
Her ears are cold and her nose is moist. It is in the thirties though so keep that in mind. Is it good to keep her covered with that horse blanket? She is in the barn surrounded by hay.

yes keep her warm, my cows love bread, but they hate alfalfa cubes. Keep an eye on her, keep trying to feed her something and try liquids also. Best of luck , > Marc

Alert and showing interest in you is a very good sign. Definitely keep her blanketed. Despite its name, Milk Fever actually causes a drop in their body temperature. This is why cold ears is a sign of it.
In the past dad has built fires out next to downed cows in the winter and stayed out with them and kept them blanketed after treatment until they could get up and move.

Just talked to the vet and he said he was concerned with her having no interest in food or water and no interest in getting up. Any thoughts on treatment? Should I ask him to try the sub q thing and leaving some for me in case she needs it in the morning? Any thoughts would be great. I am not above heat lamps on her if you all think that a good idea?

Dad's input.
If the cow were here, he would check on her about 3AM. If she was slumpy and showing signs of going down again, she would be treated sub-Q at that point. If all you have is the paste, that would be a time to give it. Keep in mind, most of those pastes are caustic. The cows don't generally like eating after they have them.
12 hours after treatment they should be on the mend and trying to stand or back down again. He would get up to check as much to be sure she doesn't end up on her side if she does try to stand. It is when they start trying to get up that there is more concern. They can fall into awkward positions at that stage.
She has gone through a trauma to her system with all of that treatment. Her body and her system need some time to recover from that trauma.

Have you offered her some straight warm water recently?

I have just been trying to get the water in her with a tube but I will try the fresh warm water but she's just not been showing any interest in anything. But I will go out now and try. I will try the sub-q when the vet is here. I don't want her to have too much and cause herself more grief but I also want her fixed.
What about her laying so long? Will that hurt her? I know she needs time to recoup but also don't want her to hurt herself.

Good luck with the vet. He will likely want to give her another bottle IV. I don't know your relationship with your vet and he likely will not like what I have been posting. It was a vet that explained to us that with too much calcium they simply flush it all out again and are right back to square one.

Cows are not like horses when it comes to being down. It has been less than 12 hours from what I can tell with her being down. Not taht long. With the sub-Q dad expects them to start getting up by around 12 hours. It isn't unheard of for them to go longer if they require a second treatment sub-Q at 12 hours.
We had a cow down for over a week (not from MF from a calving issue) and that is a concern. Less than a day isn't as huge a concern when you keep in mind their muscles are weak. The deficiency in calcium is the cause of the weak muscles. It is why they tremble and stumble and go down. It is good to keep them rocked from side to side while they recover so their legs don't fall asleep.

Worth posting again, I think.
http://familycow.proboards.com/index...y&thread=21870

I think Roseanna is going to be our new on call vet. I think I would go with the sub-Q calcium also, to much in her system right now. Just keep the cow warm and comfy, and keep an eye on her, I have a feeling tomorrow will be a better day. Have anyone to take shifts with watching her, you need some sleep. Good Luck again. > Marc

Whoa ... 4 bottles? Srsly? :eek:

We never give more than 1, and that's in a Holstein.

Is it possible at least one of those bottles was dextrose? (That's our usual protocol ... calcium followed by dextrose, one bottle of each.)

I've heard too much calcium at once can kill a cow (or if it's administered too fast) but my impression is that happens right away, so maybe she'll be OK.

I wonder about that ... also about the vet's recommendation that she should have had MORE calcium before calving. That is not my understanding at all, as too much in the diet makes it harder for the cow to adjust to mobilizing it from the bones, from what I've read.

(Does this vet do a lot of large animal, or does he mostly work on dogs and cats?)

I would keep her warm and comfortable tonight ... make sure she has food and water within reach. In the morning, you MUST get her up ... by force if necessary! If she will not rise with gentle prodding, try poking her with a pin ... yes, it sounds cruel, but remember that a downed cow is a dead cow!

Do you have the ability to lift her mechanically if necessary? (Hip clamps, loader?)

Heh.
If I were to go back to college, 6 years to get my vet license is what I will do. I have a job lined up that the local vet's office...all I need is my license. The owner made the comment that only I would think and then treat a cat for milk fever. Dad suggested it, I just went online and found a treatment for it.
Years of listening to those who came before me who know what they are doing from experience and some online searching. Our family has been raising these wonderful Jerseys since the late 1800s. We haven't had a Milk Fever case in quite a few years. Maybe one since Priscilla. We'd only had Priscilla for four months before she calved. Mostly though, my father is a wealth of wisdom and his parents before him.


I really hope Elenore pulls through. I can see how much she means to you. They get under our skin so quickly and that feeling of not knowing what to do just tears at us.

Definitely not out of the woods but........SHE STOOD UP!!!! ON HER OWN!! I WASN'T EVEN THINKING ABOUT IT!!!! :banana::nanner::banana::nanner:

I was out there hanging a heat lamp, talking the whole time like I normally do to the critters. Cussing her for keeping me in the cold, cussing her for starting the new year this way and telling her how much I wanted her better. Oh and cussing the blasted goats for being in my way every step I took outside her barn. Every step!!
Anyway, the vet called to tell me he didn't want to give more calcium (not sure if one of them was dextrose honestly, there was a bottle of clear then the second bottle had a pinkish tint to it, then another bottle of clear then another bottle of clear in her flank to spread slowly he said? And yes, he's a large animal vet but also does dogs and cats but is good for the most part with large animals) as he was worried about damage to her heart. He had talked to a vet who dealt more with dairy cattle in KY and about this tube of magnesium stuff he was going to set out for me along with another shot. I'll be danged if she didn't stand right up!!! She was standing there with her head lower than her shoulders and did shuffle walk but still. She got up.

She then kept looking at the calf and then walked over to the bale of hay in there. Didn't eat but stood with her head over it like she knew she should be eating. He had me set the salt block close to her so it might encourage her to drink something after licking it. She didn't lick it but it's out there.

Thanks by the way for all of those who have posted. I've learned a great deal and my Elenore sure appreciates all the well wishes that have been sent her way. It is those thoughts and prayers that have her this far. You all are a great bunch of people.

I hope she fully recovers and I have never had to deal with MF yet and I hope I never do, but I have learned a lot!! But I do wonder, what could have been done to prevent it if anything?

Good news!
You will need to watch her tomorrow for another crash. You can give her the calcium paste in the morning again to try and keep it from happening. At the minimum keep a close eye on her movement and her attitude.

Ya know. I thought I did everything I was supposed to. I even kept bugging my dad about everything he needed to do for his who was due about a week before mine and all went well for his girl. Elenore just had to help me learn I guess. I mistook so many signs as new mommy jitters. The shuffling of the feet, the loss of appetite, the excitability, the straining to use the restroom and nothing happening. I just thought she was excited cause of the baby.

But, I must say. If the milk fever doesn't get her, the shame might. Right now, she is laying in the barn (upright with her head as it should be, her eyes not dilated and look clear, ears erect) with a heat lamp above her with 3 separate saddle blankets covering her body. She has one (an english blanket which worked awesome as a neck blanket by the way) stradling her next and runs up towards her head, and 2 overlapping her body. LOL! But, I am hoping to get her temp back up. Her nose is cold and her ears are cold but I honestly think they might be warmer than they have been. And her body doesn't feel clammy wet like it did before but has a drier feel. All of this could be good...or bad I guess don't really know. But I am hoping good.

How do I get her appetite back? She is looking better by all means but still not actually eating or drinking. I am hoping she will be doing good in the morning. Have the alarm set to check on her at 2:30 or 3 and then will go out again in the morning around 6 or so.

She has been through a lot. Even with just a short flu I wasn't interested in eating or drinking for most of a day.
She's been through calving, a metabolic crash, multiple treatments and then some. Her body needs some time to recover. She should hopefully feel better in the morning and be ready to eat and drink. Keep offering her fresh warm water when you can. Keeping her hydrated is the most important.

Should I hold off on the mag tube the vet set out or go ahead and give it to her? Didn't know which would be best. Do you think she will need another bottle sub-q tomorrow? I can do that just don't know how to give anything IV and not sure she could take any more as it stands anyhow.

The mag tube I have no idea about. Dad could understand if it were spring but he was at a loss for the reasoning behind it as well.
She may or may not need another bottle sub-Q tomorrow. Depends on her condition. Now that you can recognize the earlier signs of MF, if she starts to go back that direction you can give her a bottle sub-Q. If she continues to get better, I would be hesitant to put more calcium into her.
I have got to head to bed. I have an eight hour shift tomorrow and have thoroughly ruined my sleep schedule (thank you new year's eve night...).

Low dietary Mg during the dry period interferes with Ca utilization and can help bring on milk fever. If your vet thinks your cow needs Mg, better give it to her.