Just had meeting with soil conservation

I guess living up north, I don't know much about dirt spillways. I do recall seeing some on TV in New Orleans after Katrena went through. Can't say as I liked what I saw. I guess being the norm makes them erosion proof.

Up here trees reduce erosion. Grass does too. If you say Cedar cause erosion, then it must be true, I'm not there.

The OP says the pasture is covered in Cedar already. Can't imagine they'd grow beyond "covered", perhaps double covered in Cedar?

I've read a few posts on HT where someone owns a field and wants to grow trees and then there are those that bought forest and want to know the easiest way to get rid of the trees.

Go ahead, buy some overgrown Cedar covered poor soil. It'll give you some elbow room from the airport. But don't expect to stock cattle on it.

So what is your point? Just throw your hands up in the air and do nothing?

You wouldn't cut down the cedars so the grass would have a chance to grow? Cedars will grow so dense that it can be difficult to even walk through them, so they can grow until it seems like they are beyond "covered".

If you had a pond with a spillway that was holding water and had controllable erosion, you would drain it and tear open the dam to install a pipe spillway?

we didn't build the pond, it was already on the property, part of the dam is on city property and so I have to work with what I have. When we bought the property it was maintaining a herd of about 30 so I don't see why it can't be brought back to that level, even though I just want about 6 producing cows. There is still a fair amount of bermuda and the native bunchgrass, that I think is a lovegrass, and in the spring will be seeding as much bermuda as I can afford.

haypoint, there are two reasons why I was/am upset with this agent, 1. the cattle have been removed from this area for over a month so why keep saying I needed to get them off, I only had two sometimes three head in there, they did not cause any erosion problems beyond the trails that cattle make. 2. Where we were at the time she was making those comments is an area that recieves alot of runoff from the airport, hence made in the last 6 years, she and I had a run in at that time because of runoff that ruined our large pond and we pursued compensation from the contractor who did the dirt work but she signed off on the plans ect. and her job was on the line, I was quite surprised to see her. We are not the only ones that had issues.

I have a gulley forming from that runoff, showed them where the grass has been washed out and the gulley 3' deep and wide and about 20' long going into the small pond and she said the cattle were causing the problem, and there is a cedar about 50' up the slope that is part of the problem too. Refused to acknowledge any runoff from the airport even at the area where the contractor had dumped some boulders to slow the water down where they put in a pipe, below the boulders it has washed down to bedrock, said its not going to get any worse and walked off.

I don't understand when someone goes looking for info, is trying to turn things around, acknowledges they haven't done something well, why those who are in a position to educate choose not to.

The cedars around here cause eroision because their limbs grow close to the ground and smother out all the grass and their needles make the ground acid, they also take up alot of the available water hurting the grass, a large cedar can cover 40' or more, they are also a fire hazard. We have been using the cedar posts for fencing and building and the large ones we have had sawn into lumber and DH enjoys furniture making. We have spend $$ on a tree cutter and are recieving a bobcat in a few days to use as well. We can't get it cleared all at once but you have to start somewhere.


We didn't buy this property with the intention of raising cattle, just wanted out of town. Decided that with the cost of food ect. we should try to use what we have for the benefit of ourselves and extended family.

I just got my soil samples back today and things aren't nearly as bad as I expected, the soil isn't in need of any lime, phosphorus, or potassium, just need some nitrogen. Lesson learned, don't take someone's opinion when a test is so simple.

The ext. agent who said rotational grazing was of little value and too labor intensive sent alot of rotational grazing info along with the test results. I hope he read some of it, he sent me some really good info and I hope he might be a good resource, at least he is willing to help with searching for info.

Bought some more rye grass seed today and will try to get in asap, the seed store owner said he had a good fescue I could try next fall, it is like MaxQ by Pennington but cheaper and he has several farmers using it with good results. It's nice to have some local input for seeding.

genbo, on the subject of goats: I don't have the fencing or desire to fence for goats, we have neighbors that put in 5 strand electric trying to keep out the bobcats and dogs but still lost most of the kids each year until they gave up. We have gotten rid of most of the dog pack but the bobcats like to come up in the yard, don't think I'll be raising any chickens soon either. Hoping that the wildlife might back off as we remove more of the cedars close by the house and barns.
I was suprised that my ph from four tests ran 5.8 to 6.1, I think your suggestion is a good one to find grasses that fit the ph. which in my case is bermuda.
I am getting a late start but have been assured that this year I am safe planting rye grass and should still get spring grazing. The seed I planted two weeks ago is starting to come up and we got 1/2' of rain yesterday so there is some moisture in the ground.

FEF, I'm too far north to participate with Noble Foundation but I see that they had some great classes in the past and I can attend those in the future, also the Kerr center has some things I'm going to check into. Thanks for the links.

I know that I should get rid of the ponies but...they are rescue and until I get them broke I don't think I could sell them, and they are darn cute! I'm building them a loafing shed and fencing in an area along our long driveway that DH is sick of mowing, not sure this will be enough pasture for them but it gets them out of the cattle pasture.

Thank you all for letting me rant and for all the thought provoking posts.

Just got off the phone with ext. agent who has been on vacation, who was able to give me the info I need to really make a plan.
Couldn't find anyone who sells fertilizer and spreads it, he told me two close by. I haven't heard back from the two who are listed for chicken litter so I don't know if that will work out.
This ext. agent did the soil samples for me and also included alot of info on rotational grazing.
His input, don't try to do everything at once, concentrate on a good area and make it great grazing and expand from there. Since I have a decent use to be hay field, mix of bermuda and native, that is where I'm concentrating this years resources of fertilizing and grazing managment and cedar elimination, there aren't many cedars there but they are large ones. I really was running in all directions thinking it all had to be done this year, glad to get rid of that monkey.
Any extra resources, money, will be used to address erosion issues on other areas, there are none on the hay field, just a low spot that holds water.
Spent all of yesterday burning brush from the weekends work of fenceline clearing and only got half of it burned, good thing I like burning brush.

Depending on where you live in OK, you should be able to find a nearby grain elevator (or coop) that sells fertilizer (urea, ammonium nitrate, 18-46-0, etc.).

Our local elevator lets us use a spreader for no charge when we buy fertilizer (as long as you are buying it by the ton). Most of their spreaders are ground driven, so you could pull them with a truck if you wanted to.

Of course, we have an account at the co-op and sell our wheat there, but if you talk to most of them and/or set up an account, you should be able to get a similar deal. Sometimes they also sell stuff that you can't find as easily in other stores, like good solid corner posts and higher quality t-posts.

If you don't want to spread it yourself, if they are selling fertilizer, they usually have something like a spreader truck and they will apply it for you. Or, they can help you find someone to hire.

After thinking about it a little bit, you might need a decent sized tractor (80+hp) to pull a fertilizer spreader. But, I have seen a neighbor pull one around a hay meadow with a 3/4 ton pickup, although I also don't know if he was cussing up a storm while he was driving around the field.

ramiller, lol, I'm sure that would be me, cussing up a storm.
ext. agent did recommend the co-op, which I hadn't thought of, and yes I'm going to have them spread it, for a small charge they will have it done before I could even figure out how to run the borrowed equipment.

It sounds like the enviro-nut-tree-huggers have been influencing your agent. I have found a BIG difference between classes given in the "natural sciences" department and classes given by an ag department.NS depts want to leave the land alone and LOOK at it, ag depts want to revitalize and use it.

noeskimo,
I hadn't looked at it from that perspective but that sounds exactly what happened. Thank you, it helps to understand why a person thinks like they do if you know what world they live in.