The Halal Slaughter Controvesy
 

Muslims all over the world are celebrating Ritual Slaughter . Many People thinks that slaughter as cruel and in humane torture to the cattle. This article address the question in scientific way.

This article is purely for informative purpose , if moderators find this inflammatory they can delete it

Do Animal Rights activists protect the sheep or the Butcher?

by Sahib Mustaqim Bleher

Islamic Halal slaughter has increasingly come under attack from animal rights activists telling tales of barbaric blood-thirsty ritual slaughter. There are two distinct issues: there is the vegetarian agenda which wants to ban all consumption of animal products, and there is the animal rights lobby which argues for a humane method of slaughter.

Do animals have rights?

The vegetarian argument is that killing animals for the benefit of humans is cruel and an infringement of their rights. They put both on the same level without conceding any superiority to humans over animals. This argument is seriously flawed, because if animals had rights comparable to those of humans, they must also have equivalent duties. In other words, we must be able to blame them and punish them if they violate the rights of others. It is absurd that it should be considered a crime for humans to kill a sheep, but natural for a lion to do so. The problem stems from a misconception of the role of human life within the animal kingdom: a denial of purposeful creation within a clearly defined hierarchy degrades humans to the level of any other creature. Yet even then, the argument is illogical: Why should plants, for example, be denied the same protection from a violation of the sanctity of their life?

Is Islamic slaughter cruel?

The question of how an animal should be slaughtered to avoid cruelty is a different one. It is true that when the blood flows from the throat of an animal it looks violent, but just because meat is now bought neatly and hygienically packaged on supermarket shelves does not mean the animal didn’t have to die? Non-Islamic slaughter methods dictate that the animal should be rendered unconscious before slaughter. This is usually achieved by stunning or electrocution. Is it less painful to shoot a bolt into a sheep’s brain or to ring a chicken’s neck than to slit its throat? To watch the procedure does not objectively tell us what the animal feels.

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From what I understand about Halal methods they are pretty similar to Kosher slaughter, right? I use the thrust and slit methods on sheep and goats. It seems pretty peaceful to me.

Sorry but you lost me at "purposeful creation." I see no evidence for that. :shrug:

Today, a Muslim group is slaughtering 50 sheep and goats on a small piece of suburban property, near Ann Arbor. This is the second year they have done this. Neighbors are outraged. Local officials are unsure how to procceed, due to it being a reliougous practice. USDA is hanging back and State agencies are powerless to do anything, beyond insuring that the head, hide and guts are properly disposed of.
I checked, this is their Holiday, last day of Ramadon.

I have a friend who is a veterinarian, and is married to a Muslim. She feels his slaughter technique is very humane. I'm sorry that we didn't learn it from him while we lived close by.

I don't believe this. I simply don't.

Under the western method, animals are stunned and unconscious when their throats are cut. Halal and kosher REQUIRE the animal be awake and alert when they cut its throat. I don't see how any reasonable person would not think the animal would be hurt when that knife slices through it's throat....especially in a production line setting. Yes, one trained, halter broke, calm animal led to slaughter by someone it knows and trusts might be fine. But when you get to commercial operations (and there are thousands of cattle killed that way), I just don't believe it's less painful.

But I wouldn't outlaw it. It's a religious ritual for millions. I wouldn't try to tell them their religious practices are wrong....though I do think the reason behind these practices aren't relevant any more. (The animal originally had to be alert and awake to ensure that it was healthy and the meat would be safe to eat.)

There cannot be anything humane about the commercial slaughter houses, it is a stressful enough end to any animal, but to be rendered unconscious is a far better end that the take the animals that is already wide eyed and wild and slit its throat!!

I don't want to stir up controversy here, I respect all opinions on this matter, and I agree that religious rituals should not be outlawed.

I also agree, that the claim that a stun gun is just as painful as a knife to the throat is a little...well...out there.

I have a friend who grew up on a farm in israel, then came to the states for college (where I met him). He thought it was very interesting that I use a gun to stun goats and sheep before cutting their throats. He had never heard of that before. He said on his farm in Israel, they would kill goats by holding them down and cutting their throats, and they would thrash and scream and struggle, but that's just how it was. I have never slaughtered a goat that was thrashing and screaming before it died...

I have slit the throats of numerous sheep and goats. None of them thrashed, screamed or struggled. My guess is that drama occurred because the animals were held down. Bear in mind that an animal CANNOT "scream" after it's throat has been cut.

I do them standing up, straddling the animal. I grasp them by the chin, pull the head upwards, thrust the knife in from the side and cut outward at the same time. I use a very sharp, very thin, very pointed boning knife. After the cut there is no struggle. They simply lay down and die.

If I were to sum up the reaction of each and every animal that I have killed this way I would say it would be "Wow, that was different! Gee I'm tired, think I'll lay down and take a nap."

Ever cut yourself with a very sharp knife? It's distressing to a human because you know that you just cut yourself, but it isn't painful, that comes later. Same with an animal, there is no initial pain, and there is no pain later because the animal is dead.

Thanks for the insight. I see what you are saying, very interesting to hear different points of view. I have never seen an animal slaughtered without being stunned (besides poultry). I have to admit I would have a hard time doing it myself. But you make it sound easy and humane.

The fact is nobody knows if stunning with a blow to the head first or just slitting the throat first hurts more because we can't test it out on anyone and then ask them to compair the two. So its all just personal conjecture on a supposed moral level. Both ways when done properly accomplish the same results

While I have not seen the Halal method done Ive seen a bad throat slit job & quick easy ones. Same with a gun.
What Tinknal said is pretty accurate. The animal is not thrashing because of pain. Maybe the last throes of death.

Yes they are the nearly same. And what i believe the final movements of animal are automatic responses as brain is started to loose control because of loss of blood.

I cannot compare it with a man as I believe we are using animals as our food. So we need them to survive.

As a muslim I can assure you that we respect each and every form of life. But this mass slaughter of sheep / goat / camel / bulls is our religious ritual.

And for the correction of you information we do this as obligation on 10th, 11th and 12th day of Dhul Hajj not at Last day of Ramazan. The main event perform in Mecca Saudia Arab

A question What is done with the animals are they eaten or is it a sacrifice of sorts. The 50 sounds like a large number of animals to do anything with in one day.
steve

SteveO, from what I know they are eaten, but that's all I could tell you. :shrug:

they are eaten, every useable part is made advantage of, we used to sell to some muslim familys back home,

Since every man who can afford has to do it , it make large number. We eat from slaughter.

It is advised to us to divide all meat into 3 parts. One for personal consumption , one for relatives and friends and last one for poor and needy. But it is personal choice not mandatory.

I see nothing wrong with the method but what would burn my rear end is that I would probably get in trouble for doing it in my back yard where if a Muslim were to do it they would be left alone.

No my displeasure is NOT that the Muslim were allowed and there would be no negative thoughts to the Muslim - no my beef would be with the officials that would not allow me to do it.

Why oh why would is it OK for someone to do something in the name of Religion but you deny someone else - if it's "right" for one group then it's "right" for all.

All I can say is......you need to get a different backyard.

You lost me at "vegetarian agenda". I'm a vegetarian who doesn't fit your label. I think you can eat as many burgers as your little heart pleases, and it's offensive to be somehow labeled into whatever animal rights ridiculousness you think we are all a part of.

I am completely against the way you slaughter. It has nothing to do with how vicious it looks.

Here's what bothers me: Would you rather be shot in the head and THEN bled out, or have your throat slit so you slowly choke to death on your own blood as your heart is giving out?

It's not that it's "violent" that I have a problem with. It's the fact that it's disgustingly cruel. You can call it what you want, and talk about how it's okay because some god you believe in says so, but that doesn't mean I believe in your god (I don't), and it certainly doesn't mean I believe in your right to kill your animals slowly while they're still conscious (I don't).

So MY "vegetarian agenda" is simply... Eat as many cows as you want. But kill them humanely.

The fact that people advocate this garbage just infuriates me. You can't prove that the God you kill the animals this way to please is even real. It CAN be proven that choking to death on your own blood is both unpleasant and confusing at the very least, and torturous and evil at most.

Again, one more horrific thing done in the name of God. Somehow people think that if you say it's "GOD'S WILL" that the disgusting and terrible things you do in your life are suddenly okay.

:flame:

I could say so much!

Please, God, save me from your followers!

And someone REALLY needs to do their homework on the difference between an extremist vegan and a vegetarian...

And of course Tinknal is correct that they don't scream...

They're too busy gurgling to death as they struggle to breathe through the blood.

If the animal is slit correctly, only the artery(ies), are perforated. The esophagus is left intact. There is no choking and gurgling. I'm not sure where you got that info but it shows the difference between vegetarian and vegan. We are homesteaders trying to reach the most customers in our diverse world. Some of these people have different customs. I really enjoy truly learning new things instead of believing everything done the "old way" is correct.
Sorry if I offended anyone; but I feel that we need to be tolerant of everyone not just pushing a single groups ideals onto the rest of our population. Come on man... Can't we just get along?

Since you seem to be such an expert on this subject why don't you describe the process in animals that you have seen the throats slit?

It is nothing like you describe. Unconsciousness occurs within seconds. No distress. The brain is instantly deprived of blood. They don't gurgle, they don't struggle to breath. Your post shows an alarming lack of anatomical knowledge. It is easy to breath with a cut throat, the airway is wide open.

Your previous post screams "extreme".

Perhaps it's the difference between Halal and any-old-fool slaughtering, Tink.

Either way, I don't approve.

And there is a difference between angry and extreme.

Blaine, I'm not sure what you meant by the statement showing the difference between vegetarian and vegan.

And I don't think you offended anyone. :shrug:

Some of us understand what he means. :kiss:

Halal looks like fine way for an animal to die.

Yep, it is part of a barbaric culture.

Do you feel the same way about Jews?

Not sure this discussion isn't headed towards General Chat! It definately has nothing to do with homesteading-cattle.

As a matter of fact, it could almost be seen as lurking for an argument by putting a goat slaughtering thread on the beef board.

Errrr, did anyone actually read the article? About the EEG results? That records a pain response during slaughter, if there is one? If anything, it was news to me that stunning initially causes extreme pain. I'd like to know if the pain lasts a few seconds (even a moment must feel like an eternity), or a second, or a split-second before unconsciousness occurs completely.

I am sure that slitting the throat is inhumane - when it's done incorrectly. What if the knife isn't razor sharp? What if the slaughterer cuts more than once, or starts gouging away at the wound just to "hasten the process"? I'm not going to discount tinknal's experience just because halal SOUNDS painful, and probably is, in the wrong hands. And I don't doubt that there are some halal practicianers who go through the motions but aren't as conscientious as others.

Do you have any idea of how many "failure to kills" happen when using a captive bolt or a bullet? I've had them myself. Never with a knife.

Plz guys dont take thing personal we all here respect families and our cattle

The first time I butchered a fat bum lamb by slitting the throat, it was the quietest, most peaceful slaughter I have seen. No gurgling, kicking, thrashing, screaming in pain. Nothing. And it has worked on lambs every time since. Some people who have been running down the method have obviously never tried it.

Having done it both ways I'm totally with Tinknal on this one. There's way too much that can go wrong with stunning with a gun/captive bolt/sledge hammer - whatever. I've never had ANY problem with the throat slitting - no thrashing whatsoever until the point where you knew they were dead and it was purely reflexive. I cut straight in - from the throat to the backbone - takes less than a second - even with a steer. What it IS is much more graphic and looks more violent and of course requires much more involvement from the person doing the slaughter. Of course it can go wrong, and of course if you don't know what you're doing it can be hellish - but the 'stunning' is FAR more likely to result in problems.

The trouble is anthropomorphism. A human knows that if his or her throat is cut that he will die. Humans fear being cut. I'm sure everyone here has cut themselves with a very sharp knife. Did it hurt? No, the fear you feel is is of the fact that you have seriously damaged your self, and that after the numbness wears off it will hurt for quite some time. Animals do not consider their own deaths so there is no fear of death. An animal does not fear future pain. How long can you comfortably hold your breath? 20 seconds? An animal who's throat is slit is unconscious within 5 seconds.

My guess is that most of the folks here who oppose this are people who have never slaughtered anything and hire their killing done.

I know from taking Brazillian Jiu Jitsu that a human can be rendered unconscious with a blood choke in less than 5 seconds. This is accomplished by cutting off the blood supply to the brain by compressing the arteries in the neck.

This is not conjecture - I have done it to people and have had it done to me - you wake up feeling peaceful btw.

If the arteries are cut I"m sure it will have the same effect - depriving the brain of blood results in un-conscientiousness.