What's the deal with Milking Shorthorns?
 

I've been reading a bit about Milking Shorthorns recently. My motives might be suspect: I think they are very pretty and they are relatively rare, even here in PA/NY dairy country. Plus, historically they have had a lot of positive traits involving foraging ability, conception rates, etc. But I am confused: are the breeders of this great old breed just fundamentally committed to openly crossbreeding their cows? They've got a confusing set of options for introducing other breeds into their herd book and seem openly proud of the fact that there are lots of Holstein x Shorthorn cows out there being added to the breed.

Why? Are there still some people who keep straight Milking Shorthorn cattle or is it all Heinz 57 with this breed? Sad...

Hybrid vigor?

More milk, COMMERCIALLY viable breeding. There are still "old" style, or more correctly native MS herds and semen available from native bulls. Several in MO. Try searching the breeder listings on the AMSS site.

I'm sure you are correct that commercial viability is a motive for cross breeding Milking Shorthorns, but of course viability can be measured in different ways. Volume of milk production is clearly a trait Holsteins bring to the table, but what about feed efficiency, conception rates, calving ease, protein percentages, or other traits that some of these breeds developed historically over generations? Holsteins are great, by the way, but there is no shortage of them (even Red and White Holsteins if you want color) so why remake another breed completely in their image? Once all this well intentioned cross breeding takes place can you undo it later if you want to reclaim the original MS traits? Maybe not so easy

They are also trying to increase the numbers in their herdbook, being an association of breeders. Crosses will get an immediate bump in all the areas you mention. Shorthorn numbers total have gotten so low, and Guernseys too, that something immediate had to be done to expand. The native herd owners are the ones bucking this trend. And it will be them, along with such MS in Australia and NZ that will be necessary to keep traditional traits alive. However, if there were that much demand for Natives from folks making a living from dairying, THEY would prevail. When all things are added up, in some situations Natives make more sense. In most dairies today, the bump to a Holstein herd from MS genetics is what is desired, especially with graziers. Like most things, if you don't have a dog in the hunt, it's easy to say how things OUGHT to be...

Even though there are a lot of jersey dairy cattle in the world today, they're doing the same thing through the "breed-up" program. You can breed any bovine species to a registered jersey and register said offspring as an "original animal". As others have said, the MS dairy breed is getting few and far between and needs a bump in registration numbers as well as for prospective buyers to see high production potential from the holsteins and other heavy producers being bred into grazing capabilities.

Our bull for next year is a MS/ Jersey cross and he is beautiful, glossy red with some white markings. He was 3 days old when we got him last winter and he has never had a sick day or a cross moment. Very calm, excellent eater, great disposition. I don't really intend to go hunting for one, but if a full blooded MS heifer or cow crosses my path at a reasonable price, there will be another cow in my field.

Well I guess that's true, I don't "have a dog in this hunt" in terms of currently owning any Milking Shorthorns. I've admired them from afar for years, but if even the MS breeders are giving up on them in favor of Holstein crosses I suppose there is no better testimonial to the superiority of the Holstein. If you can't beat em, join em (or crossbreed with em)

Not sure where you're located in Missouri, but there some awesome MS cows right close to the OK/MO border at Wyandotte, OK.

Francismilker, I would be in deep crapola with the better half, if I even mentioned actively looking for one at the moment, as I now have 1 cow more than I "agreed" would be enough! Therefore I must bide my time and wait for one to cross my path and then make him believe it was his idea- LOL (works every time and yes he employs the same technique on me from time to time!) In the meantime I am laying the groundwork by occasionally discussing the good points of the milking shorthorn breed.

I totally understand mozarkian! Been happily married to a city slicker for 20 years that "tolerates" my critter addiction so I have to slide additions to the farm through at the most opportune time. Keep it up.

We have been married 33+ years and he was a bit of a city slicker too. But his heart is in the right place and must be getting softer with age as his only words when I called to suggest looking at our last cow were "we might as well take the trailer with us when we go, no sense making two trips." Gotta love em!

Shorthorns have had the same kind of problems as the Ayrshire breed.. there were getting to be so few of them that with AI, inbreeding was becoming a huge problem. They had to open the herdbook up to allow some R&W Holstein blood in just to keep enough fresh genetics so the breed could survive without having a genetic trainwreck. The same way that Ayrshires in Canada did by allowing crossing with Swedish and Norwegian Red cattle 10+ years ago, and a lot of the best Ayrshire bulls today are less than 100% Ayrshire.

I have had 10 MS bought as calfs raised on farm withthe jersey and holstien calfs...and none of them MILKED very good..as in none gave my 5 gallons a day as with the jerseys they were raised with entire lives gave 5 to 10 easy

That is the thing with the old lines of MS. True dual-purpose, never gave so much that they would ruin if just turned out with their one calf. If milk or cream was bringing good money, milk'em. If not, raise the calves and feed 'em out. Any that gave too much for one calf, use it for for hog feed. Or put on another calf. I had two that would do over 50 pounds steady, but they were from one of the best herds in MN and cost an arm and a leg. Believe they had some Illawarra in 'em.

It seems there are different strains and crosses within the current herd book, based on what I've read from the AMSS website and publication. It is pretty confusing to an outsider like me, having trouble keeping the different prefixes straight on pedigree numbers to distinguish what degree of crossbred a specific cow is...it seems they can only exhibit Milking Shorthorns in dairy shows that are mostly purebred but they can register almost any combination of anything and call it a Milking Shorthorn.

I still like what I've read about them and observed over the years. Maybe I can locate one of the old school breeders who has remained loyal to the breed and keeps them pure

Lets see if I can give you some information about the Shorthorn breed. I am 4th generation breeder of Milking Shorthorns.

First, crossing different breeds into shorthorns is not that new of an idea. In 1969, when we was trying to get into Purebred Dairy Cattle Association, the fact was stated that they would not let a dual purpose type cow into the club. As it was neither a good dairy or beef animal. That is was a middle of the road animal. Now, at that point, we wanted more of a dairy animal.

The second fact was this, most Native animals, even back then, was not true dairy animals. As the udders was not in a fashion to to really make milk. There was some breeders that did have good functional, such as the Kingsdale herd, Innisfail, Lilydale, Bong and some more. But, it was back in the 1950's that many breeders start to look at what would be needed if the breed was going to grow forward. The introduction of the first breed was from NZ. With a bull named "Duke", he was NZ shorthorn, thought to bring in more milk but, keeping with the shorthorn type. That proved to be a BIG mistake, as his daughters milked but the udder was horrible. In fact, many did not make it past their 2 lactation. In the early 80's was when Holstiens came into play. The first two bulls that 50/50 was Kingsdale Enhancer, he was an ET by Glencroft Enhancer son, out of the Kingsdale Lady Elegance 42nd. She had many records of over 20,000 pounds of milk, was scored many time Ex. This was the bull that really made people think about bringing more other breeds into the breed. As his daughter was both milky and show type.

The second bull that was introduced was Idalee Quite Revolution. He was a Needle Lane Jon *RC son out of I believe a Korncrest Pacesetter daughter. But, he brought the most milk into the breed. Many of his daughter milked twice the amount of the dams. But, he also, had some problems...ie, genetic, but was tested ok on them.

Now, one thing you have to remember when dealing with the breed, is that yes, we can bring in most dairy breeds into the herd book. There is an order that has to be followed. Also, up until about 10 years, we could only bring in certain bulls, there was list that was formed to what bulls could be used. A lot of MS cow today, have some Illarwara in the breeding. As there was many bulls, that was sons of Illawarra bulls. As this breed is from AUS, and is their version of the Milking Shorthorns. But, with the addition of Ayrshire and Lincoln Reds and maybe some more. The bull that really made the biggest impact, was Sunnyview Princess Promise. He was a bull that kept with the Milking Shorthorn type, but added a huge genetic difference of the cattle of the day.

Now days, though we can bring in most Holstiens and Swedish Reds. With a limited number of Ayrshire bulls. This is done in a way, to breed up to higher levels of MS blood. Along with keeping the type of cattle that is MS.

I will admit, even for someone being raised with MS the herdbook is different than most. As we have different levels that you can fall back a level, if you are not careful in the use of bulls. But, basically, a 50/50 is a GE...no matter what color...these are brood animals, they can not be shown. Then you get either a GE2..these are black animals, or having black on them. Or you will get an EXP...these is a 75% MS cow with only the color red, white and roan. Now, these will have to be out of a full herd bull. Then the females will go into the full herd book after this point at being 87.5% MS blood. But, only if they are the right color. After that breeding to a full herd book, you just stay in the full herd book. Bulls, is a whole different story on them, as they have to be atleast 93% herdbook blood to get full herd book papers.

Now, we do have the Native Program....this is where cattle can be traced to have no other blood other than "pre-herdbook expansion" blood. These tend to be more beefier than Milking Shorthorns, as most of the semen around anymore is of the dual purpose lines. These animals of what I have seen tend to be low milk producers and get really fat on grass. There is just a few dairies that milk a few of these...the ones I know is from WI and UT. And both just milk about 50 total between them. As really native bulls are not known for milk production. Most might reach the 10K mark, but most do have higher butterfat and protein. The problem with them now, really is that most of them are inbred, as really there is one cow today that is of any merit, and the Native bulls are out of her or her son. That cow is Cantagree Duchess of Cache. She has had some records in the 15K range, with good fat and protein.

I think if you really look in the Mid East area you will find there are some breeders still out there breeding more of the older type of cattle. The one that really comes to mind is up in VT...Green Acres Shorthorns. That family has been breeding shorties for about 80 years or so. They do bring in some outside blood, but most of their cattle is full herdbook. And keep with the heavier style of cow when matured. Also, NY has many breeders of MS cattle. And if you want to look around even more there is a guy down in WV that has some of the older type also...can not think of his name now. But, there is a native breeder in MD, that has all three types of shorthorns...David Dell I think he is the Westminster area.

Any more questions just let me know.

Thank you, FMO3, very helpful info!

The older "dual purpose" strain might actually have much appeal for some on this forum who want the family cow to produce milk as well as beef for the freezer. We constantly read threads from people breeding their dairy cows with beef bulls to produce beefier calves. Milking Shorthorns had that combination for many years, it seems, although I see what you are saying about the limits that would place on a true "dairy" herd.

Milking Shorthorn dairy type in recent years were credited with being good foragers and also reliable breeders, e.g. high conception rates even with AI (also good traits for small scale producers). Have you found that to be true in your experience FMO3? if so, any chance that could be lost with the open herd book?

Green Acres was the one I was trying to think of as being somewhat clos to the OP...

I have not found that the crosses have been more fertile than full herd book cattle. As you get the hybrid vigor in them with the crosses. But, I have only really dealt with a few crosses, as most of the time we ran a pretty full herd book herd. But, I will see this...the blue roans that you see time to time, are GREAT cows...as most of them are 50/50 crosses with Holsteins. And they will milk like a Holstein but carry body weight like the MS.

Now, getting the native strain is harder than you think. As there is a limited number, and also many of the breeders of the native cattle have looked at the beef side of the dual purpose. With them not milking that much at all, and with short lacations just like beef cows. But, what I have seen done very well, is breed a modern shortie to a native, and keep flipping them like that and you come out with a good cow. They are more beefy, but you don't give up the milk output with them.

Green Acres is up in Central VT, near Rutland. They are great people, sell cows that are truly good. That would be one place I would look for a homesteading cow in a heart beat. They don't push grain to them at all, in fact just talked to Joan about a couple weeks ago, and they had their cows out on pasture, and she was feeding one pound of grain to every 5 pounds of milk. With some of the cows that was 5 milks into milking getting no grain at all, and still milking in 40 pound mark. Also, if you talk to her and tell her that you are not wanting a big milker she normally has them that she sells for CHEAP...like $750 for a registered 2 year old in milk. As they are not fitting into their breeding goals, but does not want to send them to the meat market. Now, these cows are not milking that high, but, with MS cattle, the first lacation sometime you have to over look the amount of milk they are making. As they really don't stop growing till they are about 4 to 5 years old. The best cow we had, she was a great show cow, and great milk cow. Milked only 11K the first year...when she was 8 she had her highest record of over 30K of milk. All this while grazing and getting grain in the parlor.

That sounds pretty much ideal to me. A great show cow, a great milk cow, a great efficient forager, and a beauty to behold.

Always had a soft spot for milking shorthorns my grand parents used to have them. We kept a couple after granddad died never cared to milk but their 1/2 herford daughters raised some fine calves.

Hey Francismilker, one of my Milking Shorthorn X heifers calved the other day. Nice udder, goes in the parlor with no problems. I have milked her twice so far and she has never kicked. Had a little heifer calf to boot so I'm happy! We'll quickly see how she does in the long run.

Great to see that bull was put to good use. Of the cows he bred at my place before I brought him your way I ended up with only one heifer. She's the prettiest tiger striped jersey/MS you ever saw with an awesome udder for home milking and very gentle. She's the happy mother of a angusX bull calf. Great to hear from you friend!

Did she have an ayrshire sired calf?

Yep, Ayrshire sired. She's all white with red panda eyes and just enough pink skin and spots to know she has some MS in her.

I do like the blue roan cross cows, they seem to just want to make milk for you. And breed back like clockwork. Up North, glad ya'll got a heifer, that's always good!

You wanna put a "sold" sign on her for me? I still have reason to come up and bum a meal and get my milker swinging fix before the end of the year.

Those Blue Roans are awfully pretty. I bought a couple at a good price just before we moved down to Kansas. I wasn't intending on buying any cows but I just couldn't let them go!

You're welcome anytime!

I bought a milking shorthorn this year and love her. (1st lactation)

She was giving 66 lbs a day when I got her and I have been slowly taking her off grain and now down to about 5lbs of feed a milking. Shes giving me around 6 gallons a day on 10 lbs of grain and poor Minnesota October pastures. She has a great temperament and I plan on going with the beef shorthorn breed due to my positive experience with her.

Shes estimated to give 14,800# for this lactation.(previous owners dairy records)

The below link has a picture.

http://heritagehomesteading.wordpres...2011/09/11/75/

She's a beauty! Nice photo

Just had to bump this thread. I just went to look at some shorthorns at Tiller's International near K-zoo this week. We had a great time. Next time we will bring our cow herding boots since we ended up helping them move their cows to new pastures.

I really liked what I saw in this breed of cow. Tiller's - in case you don't know- is a heritage farming effort. The hold regular classes on blacksmithing, barrel making, haying with horses, etc. They are trying to breed for the "look" of the heritage milking short horn but develop more of the milking lines. They use any appropriate steers to train as oxen. They are a grass-only operation. Now their cows aren't your wonderful AI show-type shorthorn. They need some work on their udders, etc. We think we want to get a cow to raise us a calf every year. I'd also like to leave the door open for me to get back into milking someday. I have looked at the dexters, but their size is a problem for me where it is an advantage for others. I don't think it would be enough meat for us. I think the dual-purpose of the shorthorn might do us.

I have a few questions about MS.
If they keep growing for 5 years- how big do they get compared to a dairy holstein? Does that translate into eating a ton more hay?

How do their udders hold up through several lactations? I wasn't impressed with an of the udders on the cows we saw. However, I am used to looking generations of dairy udders and AI breeding rather than MS udders.

What about their temperment? The ones we looked at haven't been handled so they weren't all that friendly, but didn't run from us either.

Is there a connection to the ones that look the most dairy and more milk production? I would like a cow that can give me 2 gallons of milk a day - plus feed a calf. I could take less most of the time but honestly, if they aren't giving at least that much, it isn't worth the bother of handling the milk. Some of the ones we saw were more beef-cow looking and some more dairy. Do all good-at-producing-milk MS- have the build of the dairy cow?

Thanks. I'll try to post some pictures for you to see later today.

My Milking Shorthorns milk tastes like bacon.

There is a picture at the link below:

http://heritagehomesteading.wordpres...-cheeseburger/

(caution: humor)

All I can say is: "Quality!"

Free Love?

Callieslamb, I know nothing about MS cows other than what I read, but we have a half grown bull that looks a good deal like the cow that is romancing the pig in the post above. He is MS/Jersey cross and about 600 pounds now. His disposition as he has grown has been different than the Jersey bulls that he has grown up with, he is puppy dog friendly, comes when called and will moo at you when you call his name (Lucy-- once that stood for Lucifer because his eyes glowed red, but now it stands for Lucille Ball --another redhead). He is so laid back that my main concern is whether he will have enough gumption to do his job next year on the cows.
We hope for a heifer from one of these unions, which would add a bit of MS into our milk crew.

Some milking shorthorns get pretty tall and some don't. I think a lot depends on the line from which they come. Our first milk cow was a milking shorthorn. She lived to be about seventeen. She had a halter and we just tied her at milking time. We didn't realize what a jewel she was until years later.

Thanks you guys. What is the maturing rate compared to a jersey? When can you breed a heifer? Do you think the steer grows as fast as other dairy breeds? What about feed to stay in condition compared to jersey? It just seems to me that if they are bigger, they will take more feed.

These are a couple of the heifers we saw at Tiller's. The heifer is first, then her mother. I would probably be using a cow more as a nurse cow and beef calf provided than as a milk cow....BUT I'd like to be able to breed a good milk cow out of one via Ai. What are the chances of that and how hard is it to improve udders?


http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/a...versheifer.jpg


http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/a...ket/clover.jpg


http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/a...ssysheifer.jpg



http://i878.photobucket.com/albums/a...t/brasscow.jpg

We usually bred our milking shorthorn heifers at 15 months so they would calve when they were around two-years-old. The bigger the cow, the more feed she requires, but as I said before some milking shorthorns are not great big. Those cows appear to have fair udders. I haven't seen the specs. on the bull you want to use, but usually if there is a high percentage shown for improvement, you can expect some. If you breed a shorthorn cow to an Angus, you should get a nice-sized calf with a good rate of gain.