scoured calf~ when to give up?

Well the medicated MR didn't seem to be helping so on advice from a friend I decided to try the no dairy till scours stops. So Monday afternoon we did not give any MR~ only electrolytes with suregell and probiotic powder mixed in. Tuesday evening Carol brought over a gallon jug of kaopectate (I have no idea where she found that!) We started giving him that last night as well. Today he is still scouring~ but he showed a little interest in the bottle. I think he likes the taste of the kaopectate. He didn't drink his electrolytes I still had to tube them in but be did show a little interest. Now if only the scours would just stop! And just because this poor guy doesn't have enough problems....now his hair is falling out. Big bald patches where his knee meets his body on both sides. I'm guessing its because he doesn't always stand up to scour or pee and winds up sitting in it sometimes until I roll him out of it. I did give him a bath last Friday~ and I sprayed him off some today but mostly I've just been keeping him sprayed down with fly repellent~ it's not cold here but it's not warm enough for a sick baby to be any wetter than he has to be either. We are expecting severe weather tonight~ so I put fresh dry hay in the hut hoping he will try to stay dry. I'm pretty sick with a cold/flu right now too and I am not looking forward to a cold night arguing with him about staying dry.

Add some eggs into the mixture, the perfect protein. Keep doing your best, tomorrow he may make measureable improvement....Topside

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We always used scour halt for our bottle babies. Works great and normally stops it with in a few days. Also we use a little maple syrup on the nipple to get them to take their bottle. Hope he gets better soon for you.

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The calf needs to have some type of nutrition not just electrolytes. I would alternate feedings. A feeding of electrolytes then a feed of milk. Instead of milk replacer, can you get raw, whole milk for the calf? A neighboring farmer who has milk that cannot go in the tank, etc. Once the calf is over the scours, then you can go milk feedings only. I would then switch the calf back to milk replacer gradually. Start with 1/4 milk replacer and 3/4 whole milk. After several feedings I would go to 1/2 and 1/2 for awhile and the 1/4 milk and 3/4 milk replacer. If the calf is not running a fever, I would not give it antibiotics. One thing you could give the calf as a "plug" for scours is 3/4 cup flour in 2-3 pints of water. This is one way to stop the scours but doesn't "feed" the calf.

I forgot about the egg. I did put an egg in Monday and yesterdays bottles but I forgot it today. Oops~ I'll make sure it gets into his evening feeding.

Hespa I would tend to agree with you which is why we were trying with medicated MR~ but the old remedy for scours was to take away all milk~ thats what I did for my first calves before medicated MR was available~ AND when my human babies had diarrhea the drs used to prescribe the same thing~ NO milk only clear fluids until the stools solidified some. So since the MR was given 5 days and there was no real improvement we are trying removing the dairy now. The electrolytes I am mixing for him has dextrose in it and I forgot to add an egg today but I will for his evening meal. Once we get him on his feet again if I ever do getting Milk is no problem~ the cow I wanted to graft him to still wants to nurse him he just doesn't want to nurse for the last week. I may try to put him back on her if he survives this~ we will cross that bridge when/if we ever get to it

Two eggs per feeding would be best...Stay focused, raising calves can take it's toll....

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HE ATE HIS DINNER! Woo Hoo! Little cuss wouldn't stand up~ and he was tucked away all cozy in the back of his hut, but I offered him the bottle like I always do figuring I was gonna have to pull him out of the hut and force the tube into him~ but as soon as I offered him the bottle he started sucking it down! I did pull it back trying to get him to stand up but he just looked at me....so I gave it back to him. I know I probably shouldn't let him eat laying down....but did I mention I"m sick too? I really am grateful I didn't have to pull him out of that box and force that tube down him this time.

This evenings feeding has 1qt electrolyte solution (dextrose, vitamins, salts) 1 cup kaopectate, 1 scoop probiotic powder and 1 egg (I'll try 2 in the morning I didn't read this until after I went out to do evening chores) and it is the first VOLUNTARY feeding he has done since Oct 2nd

I have been reading this for some time but have been hesitant about voicing my opinion. I`m not one for giving antibiotics at this rate, being organic this is as last resort. The eggs as topside has suggested is wonderfull, but need to be farm raised not store bought, the yolk is very much like colostrum and helps with the antibodies. I also use a packet of unflavored KNOX jello per feeding in half the milk. And I never feed MR, only raw cows milk, as I feel this is the perfect food. I raise many calves every year and find no need of using antibiotics. Also if you have a healthy calf with a normal bowel (this is going to sound gross) movement, add a little to this calfs bottle, it will add the good bacteria to his gut. Someone also suggested using flour, and that is ok also. As I said half the milk, two eggs, knox jello, works wonders for me. > Thanks Marc

Oh, I forgot to add, you never give up on saving a calf, until it has no breath

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I agree with Marc, the healthier the egg the better. I'm long distance but I feel that he will be up and about tomorrow morning mooing for something to suck on. Don't overfeed and when the time comes, slowly, very slowly re-introduce milk back into it's diet. Wait till it's system is cleaned out and then begin. Don't overfeed or you may quickly regret it....Topside

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I'll also add that spending time sitting on a bucket means a lot to a bottle calf. Silly as it may sound, touching and talking to a sick calf gives it hope...JMO

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I sure hope your right and he gets up in the morning on his own. It's supposed to be nasty weather tomorrow and I really am worried that will do both and me and him in if we have to struggle with each other in it.

I really appreciate everyones encouragement here, he is looking better now but almost anything would be an improvement over last Wednesday when the vet gave up on him and I was pretty much expecting him to be dead everytime I went out to check him. I do think my expecting the antibiotics to help is what has drug this out so long.

oh~ and the eggs I'm using are good ones free range eggs from my hens. And I had heard that about the healthy calf poop before~ I may try to watch the other calves for some if it's not raining all day tomorrow.

We use medicated milk replacer for our heifer calves and very occassionally have a calf get scours. In working with the vet when we have had a scours case, they want you to go to milk because it has what the calf needs to help it than the milk replacer. I would use the milk you can get instead of the milk replacer. Feeding a calf laying down isn't a real problem because the calf was able to suck the bottle. If you were drenching it because it would not suck would be a problem. If a calf can suck it, that is much better and sounds encouraging. Keep up the good work.

poor bugger, let us know how it went

Well....we are now calling Zombie Calf because there has just been so many times I was convinced he was dead only to have him look at me with those big brown eyes and blink to break my heart.

We have done the 3 days with no dairy~ last dairy was medicated milk replacer monday morning. I have put approx a half gallon of kaopectate down him~ it goes in pink and viscus comes out white and watery. The suck reflex is back so I was able yesterday afternoon I was able to get a full quart of the revatalyte gell stuff into him. well...he couldn't actually pull it through the bottle so we put it in one syringe full at a time, I'd suck it up and squirt it in his mouth he would swallow. The bowel movement after that was yellow and sort of jello-ey (yes I made that word up!) We've not had any antibiotics for three days ~ last was with his MR on Monday morning.

When I put him to bed last night he could not/would not stand on his own. HIs skin is so thin that it is now tearing in spots. He has a lot of bald spots now. He would not drink the last quart of electrolyte I brought him and I was convinced he was mostly dead so I didn't tube it into him. I got up this morning and was laying his hut....blinking at me! I thought that was it I was just going to have to put him out of his misery~ I pulled him out of the box and helped him stand up......and he started nuzzling around for his bottle! He drank that quart of electrolyte he wouldn't drink last night. He looks like crap, he is definately snotty and conjested......

But every time I think the zombie is dead he blinks at me.
So~ taking away dairy got the suck/swallow reflex back but I don't see that it helped his condition or bowels. This morning after I milk the goats I'm going to mix a little goat milk with electrolyte and try him on that.

So far~ the Zombie lives

A lot of folks would discount, or even scoff at that notion. But I agree with you totally, I believe it can make a difference.

I know it works for me, when I am ill or injured a little extra attention, TLC and pampering makes me feel better, at least mentally if not physically.

Oh, I hope he lives! :/

This may be it. I gave him the quart of electrolyte this morning, then came in and mixed up 1 pt fresh whole goat milk, 1 pt electrolyte, 1 egg, 1/2 cup flower. He ate almost all of it. I went out about 2 hours ago~ he was laying flat out looking like it was over. I felt him he was cold, I pulled him out into the sun and took his temp~ 95.5. I've got him in the sun now and I've been trying to get him to drink some sugar water (I'm out of electrolyte just now) but he doesn't want any. Temp is up to 98F but this is the second time this has happened where he dropped his temp like this, the first time was the day I started this thread and he looks pretty bad right now.

Aw poor baby I hope he gets better but if he doesnt please know you have done everything you can to help him.

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What Donna said...

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temp is slowly creeping up, luckily another sunny day. 100.7 just now. I'll let him get a little warmer before I move him to the shade again