Feed question, the latest MEN has me thinking again....

Oh I see. Your needs are a little different than mine. I drink about a quart a week.

I have never been able to do cheese other than that 'vinegar cheese' with goats milk and I add stuff in there too like chives and onions and such but then again have never tried either. But yes, a cow can give a lot of milk and with a family the size of yours you could probably go through the milk.
I must admit though....when I fed last night in the dark and found, not one, but TWO small little cow pies from my four month old heifer and slipped down the hill and nearly fell into them.....that never happens with my goat poo! LOL! Thank goodness there is light in the milking area with the big jersey as I am not sure I would have been able to keep myself upright and KNOW I wouldn't have been laughing at myself like I did with the heifer poo. Did I mention that that never happens with my goat poo?! LOL!
I must admit though....I do love my jersey cow and know you probably would too, especially if you had everything lined out ahead of time to make things flow smoothly.

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I read that article, and the plan for a cow and all the other stuff on one acre is balderdash, in my opinion. The illustrations do not match the article, either.

A couple of goats, yes, but not a cow.

I have dairy goats. I have made chevre (the soft goat cheese that most know), ricotta, Brie, Manchego, cheddar, colby, jalapeno jack, and Parmesan. Right now, I have an experimental ginger cheddar aging in the cheese fridge.

I'm milking one full size goat and two minis. About a gallon goes to bottle kids, plus I'm getting close to two gallons a day for making cheese and yogurt EVERY DAY! WOO HOO!

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Alice
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LOL! Alice, I picked up the magazine and glanced through and saw this article and ya know, I didn't think the picture matched an acre of land either. Unless everything was in VERY small increments, including the house. I used to have 5 acres and in that 5 acres was my house and barn and such and ya know, it might have been able to pull everything off but not on just one acre. If it is possible it is with a better micromanager than I am! LOL!

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Milk a cow by hand in 30 minutes? I'd like to see it! I have goats and I have milked a few cows. I hate to milk cows. Their teats are not friendly shaped for hand milking. I never got through any cow we had. Could never get them empty. Just too much, too far to reach under, teats too short, and every time she shifted I about peed myself due to the size of her crushing hoof.

Last year I milked 7 goats. Took about 30 minutes. Teats shaped long and easy and if they stomped, you didn't lose a finger.

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A retired extension agent was milking one of his cows - cow kicked and shattered his arm - he's raised cows all his life and still does - but I doubt if a goat kicked you it would break your arm - fingers perhaps but not arm.

I have cows - just saying.

<<<<<Ducking for cover, but >>>>>>>

Cows milk tastes better than goats milk.

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~Carla~

Go to google books and look for "Keeping one Cow" - there are several editions. On small places extensive grazing with fencing, etc. probably isn't the best way to do it, but if you have the equipment (garden size) and can cultivate your place, a combination of zero-grazing and tethering can easily allow you to keep one, possibly more cows. I have three and tether then moving them twice a day - or more - or less, depending on what they're feeding on. I also cut forage for them everyday in about two minutes you can cut enough grass/clover/alfalfa for a couple of wheelbarrow loads - plenty for a cow or two - and it's very light, easy work - not a pain in the backside like moving fence.
Check out the book - it's old - but has a lot of good ideas that you can adapt to your situation.

The cheese, did you mean you've never been able to do cheese at all, or from goat's milk? I haven't gotten enough goat milk to bother trying yet, and I can't afford $6 a gallon for the cream rising milk from a local dairy unfortunately. (I *could*, but when I can get a pound of cheddar on sale for $2-2.50, I just can't justify it) Fortunately, where I will stable/shelter/stall/whatever the cow(s) is well lit, and I never go anywhere without a maglight because I hate creepy crawlies, and I don't step where I can't see what I'm about to step on LOL.

First, let me clarify, I have 5.77 acres, with (rough guess) 2 acres having the house, barn/shed/thing, greenhouse, mobile home, and lots of lawn. The rest is mostly wooded, but it's not HEAVY woods, you can get a tractor with a bushhog between most of the trees and such. It is however, prone to flooding some springs, and heavily shaded for the most part, so I am not sure about its ability to be pasture, which is why I ask about tethering and providing feed. Since the goats aren't doing much in the way of milk right now, they've been put to work clearing the underbrush, and I think we've found a spot for a pond in the future, after I redirect the greywater. I find the article interesting, along with The Backyard Homestead, in that maybe someone COULD farm intensively like that, I know I personally could not do all that on an acre, but it does make me believe maybe I could do it on almost 6 acres, if that makes sense. Like, my pigs and chickens do fine out in the woods, so do the goats. One reason I've looked into Dexters is because they will forage some, which would be ideal for me, but they are crazy expensive around here. MAYBE fuel will come down and then I can convince hubby it's worth it to drive a few states away for one someday LOL.

I agree. I think I *can* do it on my land, but I wouldn't even attempt on just one acres.

I doubt I could milk a cow by hand in 30 minutes, but on the Family Cow website, people say they do. With a cow, though, I can justify buying a milker, I can't convince hubby of the value of it with just one goat in milk right now, though. I can't even milk the one goat in 30 minutes, but I do know others can do it in under 5 minutes.

Since I haven't tried goat milk, I honestly can't compare them. I'm a bit of a witch, though, and once my goats are producing enough that it's worthwhile to pasteurize, then my family can drink goat milk or go without milk. (Please, no debates about raw milk, I am well aware of the differences between them, hubby asks that it be pasteurized for now, and I wouldn't dream of giving my infant unpasteurized at this point in his life. Down the road, raw will probably happen for us, but not right now. WHEN I pasteurize, it will be the low temp method, but I think it's pointless for a cup or two of milk right now.)

Thank you very much for the recommendation! I ordered the John Seymour book last night, and picked up The Backyard Homestead Guide to Raising Farm Animals at TSC today. I have a garden tractor/riding mower, and a small tiller right now, and I can get more attachments for the tractor as I need them. My tenant has a tractor, and will buy implements we need if I tell him what I want to do. The only problem with tilling my lawn is that one of the previous owners ran electric and water all over the place underground (seriously, I put up a clothesline nowhere near faucets and cut two water pipes, ugh), so I have to be very careful digging in the area with lawn. Out in the woods, though, there's nothing to stop tilling and stuff.

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THANK YOU THANK YOU! I downloaded the book to read on my phone, I much appreciate you telling me about it!

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It's a gem - some of the stuff is WAAAYYY out there - but a lot of it will make you think, "Hey - I could do this (or that - or something similar)." The best thing is that it has several different scenarios - not just the one - tops two you get most places.

I just received my copy of the MEN you are referring to. I think it's interesting that the article is about being self sufficient on one acre and then tells you how much that cow is going to cost you dur to how much feed you will have to bring in for her.

I really do encourage you to get a cow if you want one....but don't go by that article too much.

[QUOTE=lonelyfarmgirl;5293188]Milk a cow by hand in 30 minutes? I'd like to see it! ...QUOTE]

Happens twice a day here, 3 cows by hand takes about an hour. Most peaceful part of my day. LOL

[QUOTE=mozarkian;5296088]I hope that one day I will be that good. Tonight I will be trying out a version of the Henry milker and/or an UdderlyEZ I bought from the Barter Board, and I truly hope milking goes faster than it has in my attempts before. Carpal tunnel and tendinitis seem to be the bane of my existence, sigh.

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Just a heads up for handmilking. If you're planning to hand milk your cow, check it out before you buy her. I have a cow here giving 4-5 gallons twice a day and she's a s-l-o-w milker. Even with the machine it takes about 12 minutes to milk out. I tried by hand when I first got her and no way would I have been able to do it. Some cows milk out in great streams others, not so much.

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~Carla~

[QUOTE=Catalytic;5296098]I grew up milking and then took about a 20 year break, so even though I had done it before, it was still very painful to start back up again after that long. But the good news is that it has strengthened my hands and arms to the point that they no longer go to sleep when I drive or type for long periods of time and no more carpal tunnel type pain. Takes a little while to acclimate and a couple of Aleve will help too, but you will get there just fine. Milk time is the only time I can turn off my work blackberry, so you can see why I enjoy it so much. Hang in there!

If I buy a cow, as opposed to a calf, I will make sure she has been hand milked before, and probably try a few squirts just to see her temperament while milking, but I fully intend to use one of Perry's milkers on her. We do have to go away now and then, which means my son or tenant will have to milk sometimes, and I don't trust my son to make sure to milk properly. I can't see hubby ever hand milking, either, though I bet he would be good at it. During an extended power outage, she would need to be hand milked or have a manual milker used on, so I definitely will check her out before purchase.

[QUOTE=mozarkian;5296247]Thanks for that inspiration! I was quite pleased with how milking went today with the pump milkers on the goat, and even the few squeezes I needed to do were getting to me.

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I would look into the Dexter breed which is a dual purpose meat/milk. A cow's peak laction bring about 2.5 - 3 gallons a day vs. 8 gallons (Holstein). Our dexter cow just calved this past weekend (little red polled bull calf) which will be castrated and used for meat for our family. She is an excellent mother. I have a stanction I built for her and plan on sharing her milk with "Oliver." Her milk is very similar to a jersey milk meaning high in butter fat. I'm excited. They are a small breed - the back end of her is about 40" and they are very doscile and she is halter broke and very tame. You call her and she comes. She was quite expensive tho, but some good advice was if they run from you, run from them! Sally Mae is an investment for sure, but you can raise them on very little pasture. Look into them

Thought I'd share how I went from starting this thread on July 26, to owning a cow on August 6, LOL.

My dad is a country boy, he's almost always lived on a bit of acreage, or had a hunting camp on acreage with his buddies. I mostly grew up with my mom and visited my dad some summers (they divorced when i was in 3rd grade) Hubby is a city boy through and through, doubt he's ever even had a half-acre of land to live on in his whole life. We've been married 15 years, he's done 19.5 years in the Army and is about to retire.

We always said when we retired we would have land. I doubt hubby cared about the land at first, but over the years of living in military housing and apartments, and having yards the size of postage stamps, he got the "land fever" too. We both love animals, we have 5 kids, 19, almost 18, 13, 12, and a 1 yr old.

I wanted to live in the country with about 5 acres (though i would have gladly taken 100s of acres!), he wanted to live in a neighborhood so the kids would have others to play with. We got our "dream" assignment last year for his final assignment...right to the place we wanted to retire, so it was FINALLY time to buy our house.

I found our house online, sent my mom and best friend to look at it with our agent, and put in an offer the next day. We saw the house and property for the first time the night before we closed last August! The property wasn't exactly what I wanted, but it was over 5 acres, the house was the size we wanted, and it was close to the post, which is important since hubby drives a gas guzzler

I wasn't really interesting in homesteading beyond gardening, it had never occurred to me that people (not farmers) had chickens and goats and cows and such. I wanted a garden, of course, but I wanted land because I was tired of neighbors 10' away from me. (Military housing is a blessing and a curse....you've always got help if you need it, and others in your situation (deployments, etc), but EVERYBODY knows your business!)

I was stuck on bedrest most of 2009 and 2010 due to a miscarriage and then a pregnancy immediately after, and then after the baby was born, I had a lot of complications from a surgery and ended up in the hospital off and on for a month. I had lots of time to cruise the internet, which is how I found our house LOL. Somehow I stumbled onto www.backyardchickens.com, and it began. I knew I wanted chickens when we got our house. Some of the chicken people talked about their goats...then goats sounded interesting!

On our way to Alabama from Alaska, we spent a few days in Seattle, and came across www.beechershandmadecheese.com 's store...bought some of their flagship cheese, and that was it, I wanted a cow, I HAVE to make my own cheddar one day!

Bought the house in August, built a chicken coop (A frame tractor) in September, and got our first chickens in October. My dad came up in late September to bushhog the woods for us, and I started looking online for how to clear the stumps. Came across some sites that said pigs were great for that kind of thing. Got pigs in October, too. (By far, the best thing we've done so far! They are SOOOOOO yummy!)

Found the KAFC site, bought the book, and started reading here, BYH, and KAFC forums. REALLY wanted a cow. I'm notorious for "do it first, ask permission later,", I built the chicken coop, took hubby a few days to notice what I was doing on the porch...asked "Why are you building a coop already?" Ummm, cuz I have chickens coming next week

Told him about clearing land with pigs, he said maybe next spring. The next weekend he went on a Scout camping trip with our middle sons, and came home to a new pigpen and 3 piggies

He made me swear no more animals without talking to him first. (Mind you, he didn't say I needed to get PERMISSION for the animals, I just had to talk about them...)

Fast forward to spring, piggies are in the freezer, and 3 more families want us to raise a pig for their freezers the next time we got pigs. I'd read about goats, decided I didn't want the hassle of fencing them, so decided to hold out for a cow. Knew it would be a while for a cow, we don't have the cash handy atm to fence the woods, nor to get them cleared.

Rented the mobile home on our property to a guy with a tractor, he said he'd clear the woods and do some repairs on the MH, in exchange for $1/month rent. That was fine with us, we don't have the money for a tractor right now, nor to do the MH repairs (skirting and some minor plumbing issues) (This was a bad idea, he moved in in March, and has said every week he would start on the woods...he did get skirting up, though) Thought it was a win/win situation and I'd be ready for a cow by fall. Yeah...

Realized tenant wasn't going to get the woods cleared, decided I would deal with goats. Tenant found pigs, so we built a permanent pigpen, got pigs in June. Told hubby about goats, that I wanted them.

A few days later, i found some dairy goats, made arrangements to buy them and have them delivered the next week. Brought up goats again, hubby says we should wait til after the pigs are settled. WHEW, good thing the pigs were coming that weekend! Pigs came, 3 days later, goats came. I got the stink eye for that one! SWORE I would not get a cow without talking to him and us being ready, BESIDES Honey, we HAVE to have a fence for a cow! (This was June, remember)

Got the latest MEN, posted this article, started talking about cows. Hubby says once he's settled into retirement with a good job, he'll buy me a cow. (He really wanted me to shut up about the cows lmao)

I have a CL app on my phone that alerts me when certain keywords are posted. I have keywords for cow, cattle, hay, goat, pigs, chickens, etc. Found out about the dairy's day-old calves, you guys talked me out of those in a hurry. A day or so later, an ad popped up with a bunch of Dexter cattle. I had already decided our ideal cow is either a Jersey or several Dexters, so that ad really caught my attention, and his prices were fantastic. Emailed the guy a few times, knew I really couldn't afford one, but oh, was I dreaming!

Mentioned them to my mom, just in idle conversation, and next thing I knew, she called me and offered to buy one! Hubby finally agreed, we found out our lawn is bahia, things just sort of fell into place, and she arrived on Saturday. I think we're making good progress with her, she's coming up for treats now and lets us pet her nose for a few seconds.

The moral of my story, hold on to your homestead dreams. I started buying homesteading books after I found BYC, I have Keeping a Family Cow, Backyard Homestead by Storey's, Pigs by Storey's, Dairy Goats by Storey's, Rabbits by Storey's (haven't read it, don't think rabbits are my thing), Living on an Acre by the USDA, and since this cow became forefront, I bought the John Seymour book the MEN article came from, and the Backyard Homestead Livestock book. I read them constantly.

For us, chickens have been a huge waste of time and money, because we got mycoplasma from somewhere, despite practicing diligent biosecurity following the recommendations on BYC. If we cull our flock, we won't get anymore until we have excess milk for them.

The pigs, a rousing success, but I don't know whether financially we saved any money over store-bought pork. I WILL know that this time, because we are keeping a spreadsheet for all expenses, since we have pigs for 4 families and need to share expenses with the other 3 families. Whether or not they are cheaper than buying pork, we will keep raising pigs, they taste SO much better than store-bought, they are fun, and they are useful with clearing land/plowing.

The goats will, i think, turn out to be a success. Once I have a milking machine for the cow, and the goats are fresh, i will milk them, too, even if I just feed the milk to other critters. They love browsing the woods, and they are very sweet (our does...the kids aren't so tame yet). Lots of manure, YAY!

Got geese with our batch of chicks in May, they're awesome, cheap (we only throw out a little feed for them, they free-range during the day and get locked in with the goats at night), and hilarious to watch. We don't PLAN to eat them, but we may raise others in the future for eating. We just got these for pets.

The cow is, of course, yet to be determined, but the manure so far is awesome, hubby has decided to start fertilizing the woods with it. (The seller said our lawn is awesome for pasture, and that we actually have really good grass in the woods, too, so one day it will be fenced, and maybe I can get to my goal for milk) Ideally, one day we will have either a Jersey, or if the Dexters work well for us, we will have a small herd (maybe 5-6 total down the road) and get plenty of milk from multiple cows.

My ultimate plan is to only have to feed the cows (and goats, if we keep them), and have excess milk for the pigs and chickens. Obviously we would supplement all the animals with garden stuff, too. I would like to be at 8-10 gallons of milk per day, though hubby wants cows for beef. The Dexters should be the perfect breed for both of us

(If you made it this far, you deserve a medal!)

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Darn chickens are always a gateway dru- - I mean gateway livestock! It kind of grows on you.
Good luck - and tell your husband that resistance is futile!