Illinois House to ban cattle tail docking ?

Tinknal, the docking of dairy cow's tails has been around much longer than large confinement dairy operations. When I first went into dairying nearly 40 years ago, every cow in the herd of 150 cows milked through a 12 a-side-herringbone, was docked with enough tail to cover her vulva. I have a book printed in 1945 and every grainy black and white photo shows Jersey cows with docked tails. Herds in 1945 number about 60 cows. Hardly large confinement dairy operations especially when one considers that all these cows were pastured 24/24. The reason for docking tails then maybe different for docking them now in some countries. As most of our dairy cows are still pastured and people have become a little better educated, the reason for docking tails has gone out the window as a cow having a tail doesn't contribute to the spread of Lepto from cow to human.

Jim, it really doesn't pay to assume. In fact I spent many years hunting upland game (by which I presume you to mean birds?) as well as water fowl. Although I no longer shoot, I still have my shotguns. My first dog was an English Pointer (with his tail), my second was an English Setter (with his tail) and my husband of the time had an American Springer Spaniel (with his tail) although it should have been docked as he was bred as a show dog but had something wrong with one eyelid. None of them ever had a problem with their tails. I cannot imagine what your dog had been doing to engender such injury to his tail but nor do I see it as a good excuse, or even reason, to dock the tail of every dog.

Marc, shame on your wife, I think that if they ever get to ground level they look really neat. I've never seen a cow with an infection in it's tail, how would they get infections in their tails. Most are quite good at lifting their tails out of the way when they have a crap or pee. Some people have very active imaginations when it comes to justifying their actions.

Having said that, there is always the exception. I have a little Jersey cow with a medical history that showed her to be producing too many white blood cells. She craps through the eye of a needle and it sprays everywhere, it really is like green water. Unfortunately much of it lands on her tail despite her lifting it and despite me cleaning it off when she comes in for milking, it has still built up and I can't remove it without hurting her. Commonsense tells me that this is going to cause her problems and I'm going to have a word to my vet about whether this is likely and would it be prudent to dock her tail. I don't want to but if the flesh underneath that ball of crap becomes infected, it could well lead to larger health issues for her.


Also Mekasmom, thanks for your reply which I personally found very sensible. I don't have a problem with docking for injury or necrosis, I do have a problem just because it looks good - and in fact it doesn't. Using the excuse that it "might" get injured is a weak excuse. In fact dogs suffer more injuries to their legs than they ever do their tails but we don't cut them off as a preventative measure!

Cheers,
Ronnie

Ronnie, docking may have been going on here for many years, but I never saw it. I grew up in dairy country and I never saw a docked tail until the mega farms popped up. I also never heard the Lepto reasoning before either.

As to your experience with gundogs, have you ever hunted in dense brush, cactus, cat tail swamps? Conditions vary around the world, and what you cannot imagine in your area may be common in another.

__________________
Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi


Libertarindependent

never heard the lepto reason. It was always about cleanliness and mastitis.
Milked 60 back in the 90's in a stall barn and they were all docked. It's not just a big operator thing.

__________________
Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

Coolest thing I ever saw was when we were visiting our Amish friends in MO. was, he had a wire with alligator clips on it running the lenght of the barn over his head right at the back of the cows. When I asked what it was for, he showed me, he clipped the switch of the cows tail in the alligator clip and it held onto it so you didn`t have to. I still think the amish are cool people on the most part, they never lack for imagination. > Cheers , Marc

__________________
Our Diversified Stock Portfolio: cows and calves, alpacas, horses, pigs, chickens, goats, sheep, cats ... and a couple of dogs...
http://springvalleyfarm.4mg.com

Tinknel, in that case it would seem rather bizzare that at the same time NZ was beginning to clamp down on the docking of cows tails, the States was getting into it and probably for equally as stupid a reason. Neither is really a valid reason for docking.

As to hunting I hear what you say but there also seems to be a perception that NZ is full of nice green paddocks and not much else. No, we don't have cactus but then nor does much of the States. We do have huge amounts of incredibly dense bush, and both native and exotic forest, swamps, rivers and tomos as well as plants that seem to be specifically designed to either trap a dog or cut it to ribbons. So while the plants and geography may differ to some extent, we still have similar pitfalls.

An American hitchhiker I picked up many years ago told me that we were similar to Amerca, it was just squashed into a much smaller area. We had the beaches and fishing, the large cities, the mountains, snow and skiing, geothermal areas, volcanos, fabulous lakes, native forest that had never been milled - and a climate that he couldn't get his head around.

Cheers,
Ronnie

I've never met a farmer that was particularly fashion conscious so I can only assume that if they are docking there is a valid reason for it and that is good enough for me.

__________________
Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi


Libertarindependent

We tried something like that. the clips wouldn't hold most tails so dad wired a loop on the tail and put hooks on the wire along the barn. If there's anything worse than a slopped up old tail hitting your face it may be getting scraped with the wire in the tail after a particularly determined cow broke it with constant swishing.

__________________
Deja Moo; The feeling I've heard this bull before.

I hope the law does get passed. I've been bitten many times by flies--it hurts! Cows deserve to keep their tails, so they have a chance to whisk off flies.

I use a velcro tie to keep my cows' tails from reaching me while I clean up the teats and attach the milker. As soon as that's done, I release the cow's tail. We're all happy.

I got a chuckle out of that one Sam, Just about as bad as a cow gettin into the burdock and hitting you in the face with a tail full of those also. > Marc

__________________
Our Diversified Stock Portfolio: cows and calves, alpacas, horses, pigs, chickens, goats, sheep, cats ... and a couple of dogs...
http://springvalleyfarm.4mg.com

In NZ the official reason for docking was as Ronny said, the transfer of lepto, the unofficial reason was nobody (including myself) liked getting hit with the wrecking balls that some cows have on the end of their tails. Whatever the official reason for outlawing it I think the unofficial reason was public pressure. Dirty tails need not be a problem, someone with a shearing piece can clean up 1000 tails in about 3 hours.

What I have seen done to dock was someone with a large metal tool of some sort who would twist the tail until it came off, then cauterize it with a hot iron. Not sure if banding is less painful or just takes a lot longer. Either way the idea of some of the stuff that "we" do to livestock without thought for the way it feels is horrible to me.

I know it is a common practice for cowboys to remove a cow's "cancer eye" by simply putting it in a squeeze and digging the thing out. This horrifies me, it has to be really painful to the animal and it strikes me as being very cruel. I understand that the alternatives are not great. It either costs too much to get a vet or vets are unavailable in more remote locations. I know that without removal the cow may well die and is no doubt in pain because of the eye issue, but it still makes me cringe to think of some of the things that we do without any ability to numb or control pain after the fact.

A big part of the reason for this is because of the petty intrusive laws that prevent us from being allowed to purchase pain killing drugs.

__________________
Flaming Xtian
I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.
Mahatma Gandhi


Libertarindependent

if the farmer does not like the poop covered fly swatters that is what baler twine is for. just tie the tail to the cows leg while milking and remove it when done simple. its not rocket science. there is no need to dock tails!!!

__________________
to know and not to do is not to know

I have never seen or heard of docking a cows tail before and i have worked in a dairy and traveled many many miles over the years. Trust me, I notice farms and animals everywhere I go and cows missing tails is something I have never seen. I can't even believe that people would cut their tails off. Personally, I think good for Illinois. If it was THAT sanitary and that necessary wouldn't everyone be doing it?