Milking and underfeed cow help
 

Hello all,
I bought a Jersey cow and calf yesterday. The lady on the phone told me the cow needed "groceries." (The lady had only had the cow for 3 weeks so she is not the one who didn't feed her.) Now since I am new to this whole thing I did not know what that phrase meant. I do now. I could not leave that cow even though I knew I should. She is VERY thin. But she is small in height and about the sweetest thing you could ever meet. She has these quiet, peaceful eyes and I just couldn't help it. She also had a beautiful 3 week old heifer calf.
So I bought the pair. Her teats are so small you can't really hand milk her. So I have a milk machine coming. The lady warned me about that as well, but I just thought it would not be a big deal. It is. SO after much crying and feeling terribly scared, I have a milk machine on the way. In the mean time I am lucky enough to have a friend with a Brangus bottle calf. She is bringing it over this evening to keep her from exploding until the milk machine gets here. I am also doing as much hand milking as I can to get her some relief as well.
So I guess the real question is how do I get weight on Cocoa? It breaks my heart to think that someone didn't feed this beautiful animal. Why?
She has a hay bale all to herself and her calf. I am giving her 8 qts of mixed grains twice a day. Help! Any ideas will help. I do not want to up her production. I want meat on her. I can make cheese in time. I know I will still have lots of milk, but how do I get her to not looked starved? And how long will it take?

I think that eight quarts of grain a day is too much to start her out on. Start her out with about half that much and build up. Worm her with IVOMEC EPRINEX pour on. It is for internal and external parasites and there is no milk withdrawal. Make sure she has plenty of salt and high grade loose minerals. If she is going to be on grass, I would get the high mag mineral.

The lady I got her from said she was feeding her 6-8 qts a day. That is why I am scared to drop it. She said she wormed her when she got her, but I think I will worm her again. She said she wormed her with Ivormectin ? Is that the same thing?
Thanks you so much.

Does this animal have parasites? An injection of a good wormer would rank high on my list for the cow. I would want her to have free access to a good mineral supplement in loose form, not a block. A good high protein hay free choice would be the forage provided. If I already had hay I would get some range cube to up the protein of the hay provided the hay was marginal. I would put the calf on a bottle if the cow's body condition is as bad as described. Since your are in Texas can I assume that you have green pasture? If so I would slowly transition from the hay to green grass with legumes. In 10 weeks the animal should not even resemble itself.

Jani, don't believe half of what you hear...Why was she sold so quickly?

How about a photo? Lots of people trying to learn on this forum...Topside

It will take time to put weight on your cow, it came off slow, it will go back on slow. And feed her good hay, not so so hay. I don`t mean you have to go out and get the best alfalfa you can get but the best mix hay to can get would be great. And as others have said worm her. .> Thanks Marc

What is "range cube"?

Range cube info
http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docush.../ANSI-3017.pdf

Re
 

@ Topside- I think the lady sold her just cause I wanted a cow and that was the one she would sell.
I do realize that everyone does things differently. I just had someone here tell me she needs 35-50lbs of grain a day. I think she is insane!!!!! Plus I need moral support. I am new to farming and I know I should have not bought her, but I couldn't help myself. I knew I could give her the care she needed even if I had to sort of stumble along. She looks better in the last couple of days. She is out on the pasture part of the time. The milk machine arrives tomorrow. I have gotten some milk out of her and have 2 calves on her but her back teats are so short. I just have to get her to tomorrow on the milking and hope we don't get mastitis.
How do you post pics? I almost hate to since she is so sad looking.
Oh and I got a the pour on Ivormectin and will worm her tomorrow. It is raining right now and well I don't want it to just wash off, even though it probably doesn't.

Pics
 

It says I can not post attachments. Is that how you do pics?

janij - you have to upload pics to something like photobucket, then copy and paste the image code to your post.
With all this good advice, she may just turn out to be a star milker (with the help of your milk machine ;) ) I wouldn't say you did a bad thing buying her. Sounds like something I would do! :D

http://gallery.me.com/janijeane#1001...lack&view=grid
I posted them to my mobile me account. Let's see if this works. She looks bad.

Didn't work
 

http://gallery.me.com/janijeane#1001...lack&view=grid
If you go to this website you can see Cocoa and her calf Rye. Any suggestions you have after seeing her are fantastic.http://gallery.me.com/janijeane#1001...lack&view=grid

If you are going to use the milk make sure you have the right pour on. Ivormectin is not for dairy cattle that are of breeding age. You will need IVOMEC EPRINEX

Can I just withhold the milk? The feed store did not have the Ivormec Eprinex. Should I not use it at all?

After seeing the photos, I'd let her calf nurse and allow her to naturally dry up....She really needs a break to gain weight and achieve a normal weight. Milking her will only keep the demand up and the weight off...Let her raise her calf only...I'm not in the dairy business...It's just my opinion.

One more thing, Bravo to you saving her...good luck

My two cents here.
In the past I have played around with increasing milk production on my milk cow and also trying to keep the butter fat up. What I found while feeding my milk cow was that if I increased the protein her production would go up. Feeding a high quality grass hay and giving her access to plenty of grass would increase butter fat but production would go down.

With that test in mind I would suggest that you NOT feed a high protein diet but instead try to give her plenty of grass and grass hay and feed a grain mix that is high in fat. Also keep in mind that the milking system of a cow is in part based on demand. So if you are milking this cow, and she is feeding a calf she will do her best to supply you with the milk that is needed for both jobs. If you decrease the amount of demand, she will slow production and give more back to her body. You may try doing a once a day milking, separate the calf at night, if Morning milking works best and then after you milk (not taking all the milk) give her the calf for the day.
It will take a several days for the production to go down, sometime it takes a few weeks. Her udder will look like it is going to burst but that is how the message is sent to the mind for it to reduce the amount of milk to make. Kinda like when you wean a calf by taking the calf away and not milking the cow.

Good Luck!

It is hard to put weight on a cow that is already lactating. They will put most of their calories into producing more milk, which is not what you want. If she were mine, I would slowly reduce her milk production by only milking about half of what the calf is leaving behind. She will stop producing so much milk if you ease her back. Then I'd wean the calf as soon as possible, dry up the cow and feed her back into condition, then get her bred for next year.

Post 19 & 20 are spot on...read them twice. The calf looks about one month old and could be weaned safely in four more weeks...Topside

One more thing, don't feed her 35-50 pounds of grain a day..

She's going to be a beautiful cow. Everyone else can tell you how to take care of her! her calf is nice too.

Thanks for the info on the worming. I got Ivermectin and sydectin confused. So I am glad you guys told me. I will use the Ivormectin on my British Whites and NOT on the Jersey. And I will look for the Ivormec Eprinex.
I do NOT want her to up production AT ALL!! I just want her healthy. The calf is 4 weeks old. I am going to try to get her production down as much as possible and get her healthy.
I will NOT feed her 30-50 #'s of grain a day. The lady who told me that said the Vet told her that. I thought it was crazy.
And thanks Callieslamb, skinny as she is I think she is beautiful as well.

My opinion is that the cow is not very old and she should make you a good family cow for a long time.

I think she is about 3. And I agree agmantoo. Thank you.

Well your cow is thin, but as long as she is eating well and feels good you still have the upper hand. I do have to disagree with the ones that say you can`t put gain on a milking cow, I do it every year. A cow will only milk as well as she is fed, so feed her well, and milk her some. I also milk once a day in the winter when the cows are getting well into their lactation. I would never wait till she is dry to have her bred again, way to many people end up with cows that are dry and not bred. I would wait till she is looking better before you try and have her bred. Good luck with her, and hang in there. > Thanks Marc

Thanks springvalley. We got 1 qt out of her this afternoon when the milk machine arrived. So we have some work to do. Her teats are sore. But we are keeping at it!

I agree with SV, I've put weight on cows in lactation too. She's a fresh cow. I wouldn't dry her off at all. I'd feed her good and wean off the calf as soon as it is 2 months old. I would even consider just bottle feeding the calf so there is not so much demand put on the cow. I would drop down to milking her once a day. As soon as there is good grass she will put weight on. As others have said, some grain, good minerals and free choice good quality grassy hay. I like to supplement my girls with some really high quality alfalfa too. Just enough once a day that they clean it up in 15-20 minutes. We're going into the right time of year. Fresh pasture will do her wonders.

She seems very happy out on the pasture. And I swear she looks better already. I want to go to once a day milking but I am trying to decide when I want to milk. I would like morning, but that means penning up the calf at night. And I need a pen. So I guess if I can get that done with some panels it won't be bad. I just love my milk cow. I feel spoiled already!

What do her poops look like?

You want to rule out Johne's. You can feed a Johne's cow until you're blue in the face but she won't gain weight. It's a wasting disease.

You can test for Johne's via a milk sample. I would have them run BVD and leukosis tests, too, at the same time. (Also can be done via milk samples.) All of these diseases can be passed on to the calf or to other cows in your herd.

Not meaning to scare you, but best to know what you're up against.

Here poops are getting better. They are not as firm as my other cows, but not runny anymore.
Who can run the tests?

She looks like she'll be a wonderful cow for you once you get her back into condition.

IMO good pasture will be the fastest way to fatten her up. Next would be good grass hay. I agree, don't dry her off if you don't have to. She's fresh and it would be a long time before you get milk again, plus she might not breed back and then you're stuck with a dry, unbred cow.

The other thing is, if it were my new cow, I wouldn't drink the milk raw until I had her and/or her milk tested for dangerous diseases.

I am pasteurizing the milk now. What tests should I have done? Can the vet do them?

I'm in Michigan so the tests could be different but for sure TB, Brucellosis. Those are the ones that could harm you if she has them unless Texas is a TB and Brucellosis free state you would want to know. And Johne's is another one. I'm sure I'm forgetting some......

I guess I will call the vet on Monday and ask what they can do.
I am working on leading the calf. And I figure this week we will start separating them at night. I have a coral off the big barn and I am going to put them both in there at night and put the calf in a pen.
I see how people just fall in love with these cows. I just love her!

Your vet should have resources, or you can check with the Cooperative Extension to see if there is a DHIA (Dairy Herd Improvement Association) chapter that serves your area.

Willow girl, knows her stuff...at a minimum get her tested for Johne's. If she has it the calf also has it. From the photo I would believe Johne's disease is a possibility. Topside

http://johnes.org/

Thanks for the info. I will call my vet tomorrow first thing and ask about testing. That will really stink if she does. I take it she is useless to me if she has it and so is her calf.