serious cattle health issue (very long)

You must have some extremely aged cattle.

Originally Posted by B & B Farms
My Grandfather, Mother and I have raised Angus and Herefords for over 50 years, 100% grass fed, hay, protein and minerals in the winter and we have lost exactly 9 over 50 years!!


What makes you think that??

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We produce all of our own hay. We think that it pays to know the nutritional value of your hay, and this often goes hand in hand with knowing the nutritional value of your soil. Yes, have your hay tested, absolutely, and if you produce your own hay, have your soil tested as well. You won't get anything more out your hay than what the growing plants can get from the soil.

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Because you made it sound like all your cows are 50 years old.

I touched some of the highlanders this morning that I posted photos of just to be sure of condition. Big Sheep, Chuck, and Bull-Regard, as well as Tank and 3 or 4 others have no protruding hip bones at all.

Sandy, Abra, Dozy, and at least a dozen others just barely have protruding hip bones, and the 4 holstein crosses, plus Chester and his mother and sister, and Black Out look the worst. Everyone else is in between.

See, the 4 Holstein crosses, and all those with barely protruding hip bones, like Dozy, I would call that normal for late winter here, which is why until the few started to look really bad, I would have thought nothing of their physical condition. That is why the deaths were so un expected and not forseen.

Even Tiny and Shazam. Tiny milks so heavy for a beef animal, that the weight of her bag in the first few months post-partum always makes her look a little drug down, and Shazam is so belly heavy, I would have attributed her showing hip bones to the weight of her fetus.

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lonelyfarmgirl We don't butcher any steers before 3 years old. We have found, they put on a lot of weight in that last 9 months.
Dozy is actually 3 1/2. Dozy is pushing 1200 pounds as he sits now


by you saying this..you proved my point a 1200 lb is 1277 days old....if they weigh 1200 lbs and put on a lot of weight the last 9 months..
.is that at
1 year weight of 350 ........should be 700 just on grass and hay
2 year weight of 700.........should be 1200
3 year weight of 1050
3 1/2 weight of 1200


they are not building reserves if that is all they are growing and can not handle stress....you also have more steers in the same boat...old and small..and it sounds to me like they are growing only 6 months of year during the summer but not at all during the winter


this is my last post on this thread also

Like it has been said before here. The hay sampleswill be back tomorrow. So till then wait and see. Since she sourced hay from more then one place its very unlikely to have been a issue.

Now LFG pictures. For this time of year here in WIS and what cattle go through here. They are in good rig. They could see some bug killer. But the few that have been losing weight and been sick they have problems. You mention the one family group that seem to be the worst of the bunch. There could be a genitic issue there. That blood line might not handle harsh weather like we had. Then your holstein crosses look good for out side cattle. One thing to note about the highlanders and long horns. Them critters can live on twigs and brush if need be. They both are knowen for them attributes. I am not proud to say this but I have feed cattle some the nastiest junk hay you have seen. But, I also feed good hay every few days too. When you are a small farm you make due with what you got. This years we have been feeding alot of corn silage along with poor hay. Some years the rotation was good hay today poor hay tomorrow and then corn fodder bale the next. So did I starve my cattle to death? NO!!! Now years ago we lost a couple due to haveing worms and lice bad. That is when my grandfather who farmed the old way. He got educated on the use and contuined use of insecticides on cattle. He always thought it was a waste of money. Then you will see some beef farmers around here run cattle on corn stocks as long as they can. After the first week they have all the corn cleaned up and the grass ways picked. You may seem lick tanks put out to supplment them though.


I am still thinking these cattle got a clostridail bug and died fromt hat. A coupel that are still not looking good will need attention with penicillin and debugged so they have less to battle.


For a note here on barley. It is of better feed vaule then corn, also higher in rotein.
Bob

I looked at the pics again. The ones I am thinking are need attention are chester, and blackout. You can notice in them pics they are holding their guts up. It has not been coldenough teh last few days for them to hunch from the cold. Also if you get a chance with chester check his color in his mouth. I would get tehm 2 for sure on antibiotics till you get things figured out. Poor feed will not make the cattle stand around like that.
Bob

I looked at the cattle pics along with many others. To me the cattle appearance is better than most thought. It is not uncommon for cattle to lose some body condition during winter. That is why going into winter it is so important to have the cattle carrying some extra weight. I know this cannot always be the case. A summer drought and one that carries over into fall can be most detrimental particularly on a forage fed herd. What I did see in the pics was that the cattle are passing a lot of bulk fiber as the height of the cow pats indicates this. I also posted previously that the cattle IMO are not digesting the hay and that the problem could be traced to the mineral supplements or the lack thereof. The OP stated that mostly salt was what was being used and I asked for a check on the selenium. I myself researched the brand of the salt mix being used and I find that the PPM for selenium in the product is high. With the mineral program being what it is and the shortage of protein in the diet along with low quality hay the results are predictable. Has there been any additional death loss since obtaining the protein tubs and adding minerals? Thanks

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I'm not surprised that the Holstein X's are faring the worst. I once ran my 'steins with the neighbor's beef herd for a month while I was preparing to move from MI to PA, and was shocked at how skinny they'd gotten when I got back! And this was in June, on lush pasture ... they just couldn't maintain their weight without some grain.

I think you mentioned you were working to get the dairy genetics out of your herd ... that would probably be a good idea if you want to stay grass-fed.

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no, agmantoo, no more have died. Black-Out actually looks better. And no one else looks worse than they did the day we brought the tubs in. They are eating them up though.
But at this point, I don't think any of them are out of the woods yet. They are on the protein tubs steady and they have been given oats/barley several times a day, but we are in the middle of very heavy snowfall right now. We will see what happens come morning. I did tell them a few hours ago that no one is allowed to die overnight. I don't think they could understand me.

There are no intestinal parasites. We have had very recent fecals done, and they were all treated for external parasites in November.

also wanted to comment on what myers farm said. You may be right about them not gaining during the winter. It's likely, as the winters here are harsh. But for Dozy, he should have been gone at least 6 months ago. He was 1200 pounds then, and you certainly can't expect too much more weight than that out of a steer born of a 900 pound cow and a highlander father. Now he is just maintaining weight. And it will have to remain that way, as our loading chute is frozen into the ground.

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LFG, we are fairing a bit better down here right now. Nothing but rain all day. The wife has to work tonight and hopes its stays above freezing.
Yeah its getting about time for another debugging then. Sometimes if we have a heavy load on them we redo the worst ones a month later. Most folks are not understanding you have small breed beef cattle. We actually have a tiny angus cross we are milking right now. She is 5 and weighs maybe 800. 2 of my white parks cross are going to be sold to a beefer in a few weeks. I can not beleive the weight they put on out side this winter. I am very glad they are not in the barn. LOL would have fun fixing stanchion for them all the time. I know the greif some have been giving you about your hay. I should post a picture of our first crop this year. Just nasty. We have been battleing june grass/kentucky bluegrass the last few years. Its great in yards but is junk in a hay feild. We have round bales of nice fine stemmed straw and the same in small squares. What has been keeping every thign going is the corn silage. Have you thought of feed sweet corn silage? Should be fairly cheap in your area.
Bob

we did think of feeding corn silage, but then we wouldn't be able to sell any of the meat from any animal that was fed the corn silage.
We have discussed buying in a semi load of balage, but Chris is afraid they won't eat it. He said one time some years ago, some hay he baled was a little too wet, and it siled in the center. He said the cattle all turned their noses up at it. Of course, now might be a different story, especially with the current problem. The cost would be about the same as a regular round bale.
I thought of getting one bale from a nearby farmer to try, but I don't think anyone around here has any.

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I think you should think less about your "marketability" and more about your animals!

Allene

LFG:

You need to work with a Nutritionist, Extension Agent, Feed Salesman, Professor, or some with the knowledge and tools to help your herd.

Jim

I have to think about the whole picture for one, and in case you didn't notice, this whole thread is me thinking about my animals. We can't seem to find any of that around here right now either that wasn't grown around here. I look everyday for any option we can afford that is better than what we have. Anything we buy will have to come from out of state. Silage of any kind grown around here would have been affected by the flooding as well.

I probably would accept corn silage if that was the only option. And Jim, if you read through the previous posts, you will see I have sent in hay for testing. There is nothing more that I can do that I haven't already done until the results come in.

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Ok your going to have to explain to me way you can't sell your animals if you feed corn silage. Your already feeding oats and barley, you have protein tubs out which more then likely contain cotton seed meal, soybean meal, non protein nitrogen (urea), and a multitude of other by products.

I'm not saying you should feed silage, it would be a nightmare to feed unless you could get it extremly close.

That is great, but what are you going to do with the results once you get them?

If you want some contacts, PM me and I will see if I can help you.

Jim

I really don't know what we will do once we get the results. I am so..well..this is so much to deal with, I figure to cross that bridge when I come to it.

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LFG,
The cannerys are closer to you then us.They deliver teh sweet cron silage this far away. So, it would be no problem to you. The semi loads are 22 tons. You should beable to find a couple of silage bales local to try too. Each farmers hay will be differnt due to how some fertilize more thn others. There should be a local hay sale weekly near you also.
Bob

Here are some cattle raised in Wisconsin. The photo was taken this weekend and they look pretty good to me, BCS of 6 probably.

Jim