question about a down cow

Ronney · #21 12/11/10, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

I think that you are doing the cow and yourself a disservice by hoisting her up, and then letting her down again. Just keep her suspended for a few days. She will stand when she wants, and rest on the straps when she wants. By letting her down again she may be re-injuring what ever it is that is causing the problem. Keep her up for awhile and let her heal.

Tinknel, you can't do that. While what you say would seem to make sense, the problem with it is, if she can't stand for any length of time the whole weight of her body is resting on her guts and heart and this is bad. Even worse in this case as the weight isn't being more evenly distributed across a sling, it's hanging on straps. This is why downer cows should only be raised for short lengths of time unless able to stand on the feet with the aid of the sling. Amanda? is doing the right thing - leaving her up for as long as she is helping to support her own weight and lowering her when she can't.

Cheers,
Ronnie

G3farms · #22 12/11/10, 06:42 AM

I have used an old piece of carpet to fashion a sling out of to help distribute the weight more evenly.

willow_girl · #23 12/11/10, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Tinknel, you can't do that. While what you say would seem to make sense, the problem with it is, if she can't stand for any length of time the whole weight of her body is resting on her guts and heart and this is bad. Even worse in this case as the weight isn't being more evenly distributed across a sling, it's hanging on straps. This is why downer cows should only be raised for short lengths of time unless able to stand on the feet with the aid of the sling. Amanda? is doing the right thing - leaving her up for as long as she is helping to support her own weight and lowering her when she can't.

Also, cows can't sleep on their feet the way horses can.

tinknal · #24 12/11/10, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronney

Tinknel, you can't do that. While what you say would seem to make sense, the problem with it is, if she can't stand for any length of time the whole weight of her body is resting on her guts and heart and this is bad. Even worse in this case as the weight isn't being more evenly distributed across a sling, it's hanging on straps. This is why downer cows should only be raised for short lengths of time unless able to stand on the feet with the aid of the sling. Amanda? is doing the right thing - leaving her up for as long as she is helping to support her own weight and lowering her when she can't.

Cheers,
Ronnie

Ronnie, it's kind of like physical therapy. The cow lays down because she can, not because she cannot stand. Leave her strapped up and she will spend more time standing. She will rest when she has to but will become uncomfortable and will spend more time standing. Around here most folks use a hip hanger. They must be uncomfortable as all get out, but they work.

lonelyfarmgirl · #25 12/11/10, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinknal

I think that you are doing the cow and yourself a disservice by hoisting her up, and then letting her down again. Just keep her suspended for a few days. She will stand when she wants, and rest on the straps when she wants. By letting her down again she may be re-injuring what ever it is that is causing the problem. Keep her up for awhile and let her heal.

you have been misreading what is going on. we only left her in the straps for a whole day on the day she could n't stand without support. everyday since then, when we picked her up, she put her feet down and stood on her own. then she stood, like a normal cow, until well into the night. she lays down on her own sometime over night, probably because she is tired. the current problem now is she still can't stand BACK up on her own. when she is down, she acts normal, and seems comfortable, she is just still unable to get back up without support.

tinknal · #26 12/11/10, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lonelyfarmgirl

you have been misreading what is going on. we only left her in the straps for a whole day on the day she could n't stand without support. everyday since then, when we picked her up, she put her feet down and stood on her own. then she stood, like a normal cow, until well into the night. she lays down on her own sometime over night, probably because she is tired. the current problem now is she still can't stand BACK up on her own. when she is down, she acts normal, and seems comfortable, she is just still unable to get back up without support.

I didn't realize that you were leaving her up all day. It does sound as if she is getting better. What kind of surface is she on? If she is on a hard or icy surface it will be harder for her to stand on her own and she may scrabble around and re-injure herself. I do know that sometimes they get scared or stubborn about getting up by their selves. Does she try to get up on her own? If not you might have to start using a little "tough love" twist her tail or give her a little jolt with the prod. I've gotten exhausted cattle to stand by putting a pinch of snoose in their eye but be careful if you try this because she will be slinging her head.

lonelyfarmgirl · #27 12/12/10, 08:16 PM

she is on rough ground in an outside pen. Its all we have. she has plenty of traction. I did mention, that the other day we sic'ed the farm dog on her. she tried, just couldn't do it.
yesterday, we got her up around 2 in the afternoon, she stood right up once we picked her off the ground with the straps.
This morning, we were so pre-occupied with the blizzard, that I fed her and moved on. It didn't occur to me until later that she was still standing!
This is the first time since the accident she stood all night. I am certain its because of the blizzard, but still. As of 5pm, she was still up, meaning she has been up for 27 hours. I realize cows need down time to rest, but after standing this long, maybe when she does lay down, she will be able to get back up. Her pen is full of snow, but fortunately, she was out of the worst of the wind.

tinknal · #28 12/12/10, 08:23 PM

This is great news! Is it possible that she is laying down and getting up when you are not looking?

lonelyfarmgirl · #29 12/12/10, 08:27 PM

I doubt it, we watch her pretty close, and we would be able to see a depression if she had. DH can see her out the back shop window. I wish that was the case.

oldtimer · #30 12/12/10, 09:06 PM

Without seeing the animal my best guess is that this animal has a twisted gut from thrashing around with her head caught.
I would give her a warm water enema with about a half cup of mild soap in it. Dish washing soap will do fine. Use about 3 - 5 gallons and force it in, even as it comes back out while you are doing it.
Then walk her around if possible but do not walk directly behind her.
Repeat if necessary in 12 hrs.
Can’t hurt!
Do not feed hay, just water and some feed.

Q. Is her stomach distended?
Q. Has she made any cow pies? What color is it?
Good luck
OT

lonelyfarmgirl · #31 12/12/10, 11:18 PM

why would you say to do these things? she is eating fine.

Ronney · #32 12/13/10, 05:09 AM

I agree. Sorry Oldtimer, if she had a twisted gut, after this length of time she would be well and truely dead.

I stood and watched my cows get on to their feet after milking this morning and, not for the first time, was amazed at the ability of getting their bulk on to four skinny legs. If one watches closely it really is a mission. And I thought of your cow. The fact that she can stand and is able to stand for very long periods of time indicates (in my mind) that there is nothing too much wrong with her but that there is some sort of nerve damage/pinching/bruising that is making it difficult for her to heave that bulk up. Have you explored the anti-inflammatory route yet or had a talk with your vet.

And while your dealing with blizzards before winter has kicked in, we're dealing with a drought before summer has kicked in.

Cheers,
Ronnie

oldtimer · #33 12/13/10, 12:20 PM

why would you say to do these things? she is eating fine.

Reason 1.
I must have lost something in my interpretation of your statement
“seems to be going downhill“
Reason 2.
A twisted gut is the lesser of the two evils you are facing ( twisted gut or irreversible neurological damage) and I would treat the lesser first as it has a treatment and as the worst has no treatment and death is most likely.

As I said before, it is very hard to diagnose any problem without seeing the animal. As a proper diagnosis is essential before any treatment I prescribed a treatment that would have absolutely no ill effects on the animal whether my diagnoses was correct and the animal was saved or not.

Just because she is eating and drinking fine does not mean it is coming out the other end, which indicates blockage.
Is she defecating and urinating in direct proportion to her intake? If no, she has a blockage.
Is her intake equal to her intake prior to the accident? If no, she may have blockage.
Does she show any signs of dehydration even though she has a water intake? (check her eyes)
If yes, she has blockage.
Does she show any signs of bloat? If yes, she has blockage.
Does she foam at the mouth before or after eating?

Now here is one only you can answer.
Does she show signs of pain or just the lack of physical control?
Good luck
OT

lonelyfarmgirl · #34 12/13/10, 11:00 PM

she laid down after the storm was over last night. this morning, she looked bad. we picked her up and she had her head twisted towards her back and wouldn't hold it forward, and put forth no effort at all to stand. first time in a week she also refused warm water or food. she ate and drank all through the storm just fine.
we messed with her for a couple hours to no avail. It was obvious she was in a very bad way. Final diagnosis, irreversible nerve damage in the neck. DH shot her. There was nothing else we could do. Its a sad day.

nduetime · #35 12/13/10, 11:56 PM

So sorry, that is so sad after all she went through and you too.

willow_girl · #36 12/14/10, 12:08 AM

I'm sorry she didn't pull through. Sounds like you gave her your best shot, though.

Ronney · #37 12/14/10, 05:53 AM

Oh dear, I'm so sorry but as Willow says, you gave it your best shot - and had the wit to recognise when to call it quits. When they put their head back over their shoulder, it is the beginning of the end. I couldn't fault you on anything you did for her including making the right decision at the right time. Chin up.

Cheers,
Ronnie

lonelyfarmgirl · #38 12/14/10, 07:42 AM

yeah, this sucks, we really tried to save her. I thought she was coming around, but there at the end, she just curled up and that was it. Its been a bad year for us and animals. she makes 4 grown cows and a steer this year we've lost. That doesn't count the newborn calves lost to the flooding this past spring and the goats we lost due to flood aftermath. Its been the worst animal year we've ever had. This just took the cake..every single crumb..Winter is only just getting started, and we have cows due to calve starting soon. Usually we dont have issues with winter calving, but with the record we've had this year, I'm skaired.

cathleenc · #39 12/14/10, 08:42 AM

I'm sorry, Amanda!

tinknal · #40 12/14/10, 09:38 AM

I doubt that she had nerve damage in her neck, but you still did the right thing. That whole neck bent back and stiff thing is a "death posture". I've seen it many times.