Breed Jersey cow to a Guernsey?... Too big? Good mix?
 

Our Jersey cow has always had registered Jersey calves. She needs to be bred back and I have considered having her AI'd with Guernsey semen. Since this will be her 5th or 6th calf, she's a very large Jersey and she has never had problems, would this be considered safe to do? I know that Guernseys are larger.

I assume that would be a good mix as I've seen that a few seem to produce that cross on purpose.

Thoughts?

Not even sure if my AI Tech carries Guernsey. They don't seem that common around here.

Your Jersey should do fine if bred to a Guernsey.

This is an excellent cross that will pour the milk, go for it!

My Jersey got bred to a Brown Swiss bull by mistake. She's smaller, weighing about 825lbs. All the feedback I got about it was she should be fine and that Jersey's can calve a "Mack Truck" without issues. So, I'm expecting a Jersey/ BS calf in March.

If you look at Jersey bulls for calving ease, they don't even have stats for them. They do for the other breeds. I guess that says something about Jerseys.

I have no experience yet, but my guess is your Jersey should be fine bred to a Guernsey. I've actually considered breeding to a Guernsey bull and if it goes well with the Brown Swiss I might try Guernsey next time.

You should get a nice, probably brindle, calf with no trouble. If it's a heifer, she should make plenty milk & fat, but will lose the guernsey yellow in the milk.

Most amateur crossbreeding is folly.
Crossing a Holstein to a Angus is, to me, like crossing a St. Bernard to your Irish Setter. At least in this case you are breeding within dairy breeds. I compare that to breeding your beagle to a Golden Retriever. I would expect that if it is a heifer and you raise her and breed her and she has a calf, you will eventually have a milk cow that is larger than a Jersey, smaller than a Guernsey, produces more milk than a Jersey, but with less butterfat. Lots of “ifs” in all that. How is it that a Jersey doesn’t produce enough milk, but a Guernsey produces too much or a Jersey is too small, but a Guernsey too big?
I hear far to much, “ I just bought 40 acres of woods, how can I turn it into pasture?”, “ I just bought 40 acres of pasture, what can I do to turn it into forest?”, “I have a Jersey but I want her to produce beef calves, how?” or “ I have a gentle Jersey that gives us plenty of milk, so now I want to see if she can survive a birth of a larger calf?”
Jeresy bulls are often not rated for calving ease for a reason. It isn’t because the fine boned Jersey can birth a large calf. Actually, you’ve got it backwards. Jerseys produce, often easily, small calves, smaller than other breeds. So, if you use a Jersey bull on any other breed, you will always have a smaller calf. Conversely, when you breed a Jersey to any other breed, you can generally expect a larger calf. While we seem to grasp that calf size and calving ease go hand in hand, has anyone checked out the mortality of both the cow and calf when toying with larger sized calves? Vet can often save one or both if he gets there in time, has a good dry well lit area to do the cesarean section. Generally Vets carry cable blades that allow the calf to be removed in big chunks. None these “experiments” result in stories you’ll want to share with friends and family.
When you post to a discussion board, you are requesting feedback. If she has been producing quality, registered Jersey calves all along, as a tribute to the hundred generations before you, keep the breed pure, breed to the best Jersey bull that excels in your cow’s weaker areas. You won’t regret it. Please reconsider mongrelizing your herd.

Some important characteristics of the Guernsey breed -

Excellent temperament
Excellent workability traits
Calving ease
Regular calvers
Guernsey have sound components in percentages of protein and butterfat with good solid all round milk production.
No known genetic recessives
Guernseys are adabtable to a wide range of farming practices. They are efficient grazers but also adapt well to feed lot or silage etc.
Guernsey work well in mixed herds. They are also excellent to use in cross bred herds.
Guernseys also produce A2 milk.


http://www.lbcentre.com.au/Guernsey.php

A veteran Jersey cow with that many calves shouldn't have any issues calving if bred to a Guernsey bull. Always good to remember she could have calving problems anyway, such as a the calf presenting with a front leg back, but that doesn't have anything to do with the breeds.

Me too, then I lost my Jersey cow and calf because the calf was too big to come out.

And why not? As homesteaders we don't need 5 or 10 or more purebred Jersey cows but we can normally use a steer (or heifer even) in the freezer every year. A Jersey bred to an Angus bull with calving ease would produce a lovely (and delicious) freezer calf.

A Guernsey isn't that much bigger than a Jersey. If she were a heifer I would say no.

Breed her to a double muscled beef breed (Mack truck), and you will likely have problems.

“And why not? As homesteaders we don't need 5 or 10 or more purebred Jersey cows but we can normally use a steer (or heifer even) in the freezer every year. A Jersey bred to an Angus bull with calving ease would produce a lovely (and delicious) freezer calf.”
While this thread is about calving ease and my concern is also about mixing breeds, discussion about producing one’s own beef from their milk cow is a bit off topic. But I think it is an important decision none the less.
Let me answer with my perspective. If I had a station wagon and I needed a pickup truck, I could cut the back off the station wagon and it would make a very serviceable truck. I could also simply trade in the station wagon for a real truck. The station wagon is worth more before I hacked the back off. It makes sense to me to leave the vehicle whole and trade it. Same with my cows.
If I have a registered Jersey, bred to a high quality Jersey bull, there is a 50-50 chance that I’ll get a registered heifer. If I raise her for 6 months to a year, she will be valuable to a dairy or a homestead. This is especially true if I have spent time with her and she is easy to lead. If I do not need the extra milk, I can sell her and I can buy a beef steer that will grow much more meat than a cross bred Jersey. If I have a Jersey bull calf, he will provide a homesteading family with a lot of meat.
To me, it makes more sense to breed beef to beef, Jersey to Jersey, poodle to poodle, pit bull to pit bull.
We never plan on it, but often our plans change. What you wanted as a cross bred milk cow or a cross bred dairy/beef cow may end up on Craigslist or the local sale barn. The market may judge you harshly for your folly.

Much beyond the idea that Haypoint says you mongrelize your herd if you cross your jersey with a guernsey. Alot of new cattle breeds have been started by crossing the two differant breeds and coming up with a superior breed, good traits from each breed. I do think that some breeds can be improved by crossbreeding, I have one guernsey/jersey cross, she is just a first calf cow, but has done very well this year. So don`t think anything about the cross, either way you will get a good calf. Some of the times when a cow has problems having her calf it may very well could be she was overfed and not really the bulls fault. Good luck with you decision, and raise what you want. > Thanks Marc

there is a place for the Purists, and there is a place for everyone else, sadly that place is not the SAME place, if wants to breed a jersey cow to a gurnsey bull that is nobodys buisness but that individuals, its actually a pretty good mix as mixes go, Ozark Jewls whole herd is a mix of Jersey and Holstine and last i read they are adding a Brown Swis or milking Short horn bull to the mix, its a Dairy and Dairy breeds apparently all milk out Dairy products regardless of who their daddy was,
if the Jersey breed was endanger of becomming extinct and every single last pure cow was needed to SAVE the breed then i might feel compelled to defend the Purist mentality but thats not the case.

Except most of us don't have 'herds'. And people around are hungry for a family dairy cow. The mix really doesn't matter to them. You can get a really nice milk cow with a number of mixed breeds. I don't see a problem with it. My AI guy does - he won't mix breeds.....I think it would be great if my jersey was bred to a beef bull - then her NEXT bull calf might be a bit heavier than the full jerseys.

I for one, would love to have a Jersey/ Guernsey cross milk cow. I'm a family cow person, not a dairy owner. I'm not alone. There are plenty of family cow owners out there who are happy to have a kind, gentle milk cow to provide for their families. Being 100% pure bred and registered is low on my list. It's just not important to me with my "herd" of one or two cows. What is important is a gentle, tractable animal who'll be around for several years and provide me with heifers as a replacement or to sell for a little income or a bull calf for my freezer. I don't need that steer to grow fast to get to market. I'm not after that market. The only market I care about is milk in my fridge and beef in the freezer. If I have extra's then maybe I'll offer them for sale to people who are looking for the same thing.

I'd buy a Jersey / Guernsey cross milk cow as long as she fits my criteria for a family cow.

I stand somewhere short of haypoint's stance. Someone has to maintain breed purity, and it has often been individuals with a few cows who have kept breeds alive. Careful crossing does work, but other genes have been introduced. Thus, no more purity. My 2 cents, if I was gonna cut the back off a station wagon, metaphorically, I would us a calving ease Milking Shorthorn on that Jersey to add beef to her calf, and if it were a heifer, save her back for breeding.

My hat's off to your A.L. guy. Some don't see a problem with it, some do. It's a free country.
Breeding a beagle to a beagle or a Percheron to a Percheron or a Jersey to a Jersey isn't being a purist. If you think you can improve on what the Jersey breeders have done in over 300 years, go ahead. While not endangered, continued improvement within the breed, insures a broad base of genitic diversity within the breed through the use of superior Jersey bulls.

Great discussion and points on both sides - thanks all.

When I was looking for a family cow, I looked at both Jersey and Guernsey and liked different aspects of each breed. It occured to me that I could stand a chance of producing my own via breeding. If the progeny is a bull, I would assume that the Guernsey might give him a bit more size.

We have two cows - Violet, and her daughter. The daughter (heifer) will definitely be bred to Jersey but thought it might be cool to have the cross (via Violet) as well. I'll let you know what we do.

In our goat herd, we started with Oberhaslis and now have Nuberhasli's, Obersaanens, and Nigeriasaanuberhasli's. Clearly, I'm ok with crossing :) Our favorite and best goat is a Nub/Saan/Ober.

I'd breed mine to a guernsey just to get some spots! Jersey's don't come in the most intersting color patterns.

http://http://i815.photobucket.com/albums/z...s/100_0551.jpg

This is the result of a guernsey/jersey cross. Very nice calf, unfortunately a bull. I did rebreed the cow for next spring in hopes of a heifer cause I just love the spots. I would love a pure guernsey but can't afford to give up an arm and a leg for one. The sire guernsey bull was inexpensive and is now very tastey.

[QUOTE=cjb;4788146]Great discussion and points on both sides - thanks all.

When I was looking for a family cow, I looked at both Jersey and Guernsey and liked different aspects of each breed. It occured to me that I could stand a chance of producing my own via breeding. If the progeny is a bull, I would assume that the Guernsey might give him a bit more size.

QUOTE]

Of course, I am sure you will castrate him, but if you think a Jersey bull can be nasty, Guernsey bulls are 10 times worse IMO. However, Gurnsey cows are great and give some really tasty golden milk.

I'd breed to a jersey bull and be done with it.
Both are smaller animals than the queen Holstein and both will provide more than ample milk with plenty of solids for farmsteading use in the cheese vat or butter churn.
I can see crossing goats, many times the only bill available is a different breed and AIing hasn't caught on like in cows.
I can't see the reason for this cross and I wouldn't bother.

But rock on......

Yeah well.. the spots might play a small part ;)

All my purebred jerseys are spotted except for one....some of them very much spotted.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4062/...da6f198e47.jpg
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/...0c6e2c02eb.jpg

I was told by my vet and the AI guy that my bull calf was not a "pure" jersey because he had spots..and that he was guernsey cross. And my jersey (unregistered) was not "pure" because she does no have a dark switch....I love spots! I would love to have spotted jerseys.

according to this
http://www.usjersey.com/Reference/PD...2009update.pdf

with or without white markings is fine

Seen a lot of straight jerseys with spots

Well I have no idea where anyone gets the idea that if they have spots they are not purebred. I have registered Jersey`s that have white spots, and had a registered cow that had a white swtch, one of my cows had a red and white bull calf this spring. That is the silliest thing I have ever heard, like saying it ain`t a holstien because its red and white. > Thanks marc

I don't think the white spots make them un-registerable. I just figure it's part of the long lasting effects of the jersey association's "breed-up" program. Jersey's of yesteryear didn't have white on them. (according to grandma!)

Yes Francis, I have also heard some of the jersey bulls out there on the AI circut have holstein blood in them. Wow go figure, I know most of my girls are large for jersey`s, not much smaller than my dad`s holsteins from years ago. > Thanks marc

My dad recalls there being white on Jerseys since he was a kid back in the 50s. Before AI, an area's Jerseys were generally going to be fairly similar in appearance due to common breedings. In Belmont county, it was the Bailey's breeding. The dark heads and necks were common, as were the white shields.
The "Breeding Up" programs are fairly recent to AJCA. The white spots are not.
For what it is worth, I have a pamphlet put out by the AJCC back in the early-mid 1950 (a table in there is from 1951) and sure enough the last two pages have a Jersey cow with a nice big white shield on her forehead and a Jersey bull with a white spot on his flank.
For that matter, We have a couple of "A Catalogue of Thorough-Bred Jersey Cattle to be offered at auction on 3d Day, the 19th of 3d Mont, (March) 1878at 1 o'clk P.M."
6 cows listed (ranging in age from 14 due to calve in the next month down to a yearling) and 5 bulls (raning from 5 years old down to 6 months). All mention white as part of the coloration description. From "Yellow fawn and white" to a bull listed as "gray on back shoulders and sides black, little white."
This particular sale was put on by my great great grandfather who had brought the first registered Jerseys west of the Alleghany's 11 years prior. My family has been raising and breeding registered Jerseys since.
I'll be sure to ask Grandma (92 now) what she recalls of white in Jerseys.

To the OP, a local farmer tried that cross in his herd. Apparently he really liked the first cross, but didn't like the ones after very much.

our beloved milk cow is 75% jersey & 25% guernsey and makes the most awesome milk! I think her last milk test was 7.4% butterfat with the highest milk solids our dairy farmer neighbors had ever seen. Small, gentle, curious - and yellow milk to boot.

I have both a Jersey and a Guernsey and they are very different in size. The Jersey stands about 4' 6" and the Guernsey is 5'2" measuring about the mid spine area. Jersey weights 850 and Guernsey weighs at least 1200. I would not breed a Jersey cow to a Guernsey bull, the calf would have a very good chance of being too big for her to handle. Other way around would be a cinch if the bull could reach that high ;)

• Chapter 3 of L. Gordon Tubbs book, The Book of The Jersey, is devoted to the variation of colors in Jersey cattle. In it the author mentions an early (1867) craze for silver grey Jerseys, he also mentions duns, fawn, dark grey, and many other shades of grey. He quotes Thomas Quayle in1812 talking about red and red and white, cream, cream and white Jerseys. Later (1922) he claims Jerseys came in almost any color: from almost pure white to various shades of brown to jet black to lemon yellow, mulberry was also mentioned.
•
• He also talks about “broken colour” animals-that is to say colored animals with one or more distinct patches of white. Lynn Copeland, in his book, Development of The Jersey Breed, says the top auction price of 1922 was for the cow Perennial Lobelia who was a black cow with white markings.

So, Jerseys with colors other than the familiar fawn, and Jerseys with white marking are nothing new, nor an indication of impurity.

For anybody that loves Jerseys the book it an interesting read and has loads of info.

Really interesting historical views! I just know what I like. I love the dark mask of the jersey that I have now. She had a bull calf a couple years back that was red with a few broken white patches on his side and he was beautiful. The heifer I have from her is very dark. I almost thought she was going "black" her first winter but she sheds back out to fawn with black face, head neck.

Just fun to speculate. Since Violet didn't conceive last breeding, I am mostly just concerned about her getting pregnant!