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Mad Cow Disease in Washington State
The USDA has now confirmed a suspected case of MCD found in a downer cow in Washington State. Formal confirmation is expected after further tests.
Ken S. in WC TN |
Well...anyone with half a brain knew that was coming, but it is still shocking to hear it finally has.
Sure glad I have done my own program on my farm to guard against it. No animal proteins at all for my cows for quite some time. I'm not sure if I should be happy because I know my cattle are ok, or totally devastated because I'm now on my way to financial ruin along with everyone else. I know what's it's done to Canada. Nice anxiety producing xmas present. Jena |
Tomorrow should be a very interesting day on the stock market. Expectations seem to be every industry associated with beef will take a major hit. Don't be surprised to see the Dow Jones take it biggest one day loss.
On timing, fortuantely I am about in the middle of a short calving season. Thus, I have a 6-8 month window to see what happens. I also have the option to increase haying to carry through what I have. This is going to be a rough ride so hang on tight. Ken S. in WC TN |
On the good side....I can keep and feed everything I have all winter long, if necessary. That's a blessing. I won't be forced to sell simply because otherwise they will starve.
On the bad side....I have notes coming due. The bank has always been willing to work with us and I'm sure that won't change in the immediate future, though it's hard to tell. I'd better step up the marketing on my cattle directly to consumers. That could prove to be my saving grace. Jena |
It bothers me that they call this (and the Canadian one) "in isolated case", if the other cows from the farm were all fed the same way then wouldn't they all potentially be affected?? Me thinks the powers that be don't want the people to panic.
It's going to be interesting to say the least, isolated case my *****!!!!!!!!!!!! Carol K |
mad cow
Since this was found in a Holstein its not just going to effect in beef cattle but will probably be hard heat in the Dairy Industry as well. The news will play this up for rating and Kill the farmer just as it has in Canada. Japan has already temporaly Banned all US Beef imports into Japan Where over 30 percent of our exports go. I certainly would not want to be holding any cattle futures right know. Lets hope this passes quickly and there are no other casaes of BSE.
Happy Holidays Arnold |
Carol...
This is just my theory on mad cow and how there can indeed be isolated cases. I've done lots of reading on it, but I'm not sure if others share my theory. Many species have their own "mad cow" disease that occurs spontaneously in the population, including humans. For us, it is CJD. The usual rate of infection for CJD is 1 in a million. If that is the "standard" rate for other diseases of this type, then 1 in a million cows will naturally get BSE, 1 in a million deer will get CWD, etc. The cause for this spontaneous disease is not known. The feeding practices that were in practice simply put a huge amplifier on the problem. By feeding those diseased animals back to other animals, the original 1 out of million could have infected hundreds or thousands of other animals. It just multiplied itself as the feeding practices were continued. Stop the feeding practices and you go back to the 1 in a million. An isolated case. Again, I'm not a scientist or researcher and I don't know for sure that my assumptions are correct, but this makes sense to me. They tracked that canadian cow back through it's life, tracking down herd mates, etc. yet found not one other infected cow. If that cow got mad cow from how it was fed, they would have found other cases, at least I would think so. I don't know what the size of the national herd is (off the top of my head), but I doubt that one cow is the only affected animal in this country. I don't think it's a reason to panic and I don't think we will ever see the level that was apparent in Britain. Fortunately for us, they got it first. We were able to put safeguards in place before it got to that point. I wish they had been more rigorous in the safeguards we are using, but I suppose now they will. It will probably be too late for me. I'm trying not to jump to conclusions, but based on what happened in Canada, I doubt I will survive this financially. Cattle prices are already off $6/cwt and the market didn't really have time to react. The really hard part for me is knowing I won't know for a long time. It will take a while to work it's way out and I just have to hang on, if I can. Sorry to go on like that.....but I do think an isolated case is entirely possible. Jena |
Jena, I do agree with your spontanious occurence theory, another that's been batted around up here by vets is that the disease jumped species from deer/elk. Carol, I don't think you have a solid grasp of the cattle industry, cattle are bought and sold every day and the trace back and trace out is just wild. The Canadian cow had come in contact with approx. 2000 other cows and that doesn't include cows that have come in contact with those cows. Think outside the homesteading concept, cattle live on community lease pastures and some travel through feedlots. Feed is the logical cause but what feed andwhere did it come from? Is it feed or is it a supplement? Better yet, is the cow an illegal immigrant? Some folks are sneaking emryos and semen into the country. Because this cow was a dairy cow, I don't see things being any different that it was up here with a beef cow because the whole damned industry was shut down. If your pattern follows ours, every auction house will be closed for a while. They want to stop the movement of all cattle till the can accurately trace every animal that might be affected. I don't even know if you folks will have it as bad as we did. We were the first of the "clean countries" to be affected by it and we've never been able to trace it or find another case to prove or disprove any theory so we've been stuck in limbo for ages. Now, all beef producing countries are on an even playing field. We've never blamed the US for shutting us down, we would have done the same thing if the situation were reversed. This might just straighten out the industry and we can all work together to find a solution. I pray that none of you have to go through the devastation that we've seen up here. It's affected so many directly and others indirectly, packing plants have closed, auctioneers out of work, dairy cattle worth nothing, buffalo worth nothing, sheep and goats valueless, etc.
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There has been literally millions of dollars of research and investigation done on Mad Cow Disease and scientists frankly don't know what really causes it or why the outbreak. Thinking was the feeding of scrapie infected sheep as meat and bone meal, but that has been done for a long, long time. One line of thinking is the use of orangeophorphorus (sp?) fly control may be a trigger to an inate gene all cattle have. But then it has shown up in closed herds which received no meat and bone meal or any OP used on the animals or on crops on that farm.
Once the hide is off of a carcass it is very, very difficult to tell what breed it was. A Holstein may look very much like a Brahman-cross. Beef from cull dairy cows is not separated during the processing and sale cycles. One line of thinking is that 1/1M natural occurance and that it simply wasn't noticed until the cluster in Britian. Symptons can be mistaken for rabies. I believe the U.S. exports only about 25% of the world beef supply. I, for one, will not change my level of consumption of beef even if I weren't a cattle farmer. Ken S. in WC TN |
There are also other slaughterhouse practices that caused more problems by increasing the risk of high risk tissues getting into the meat.
The use of mechanical meat seperators, machines the pick every scrap of meat from the bones, have been blamed. When using these machines on spinal columns, the brushes of the machine can catch particles of spinal cord and then that goes into the hamburger. The use of pnuematic stun guns has been questioned as well. Pnuematic guns basically blast the brain apart with air. Those brain particles can be spread throughout the body by the circulation as the animal dies. I don't know when these methods were started in slaughterhouses, but I think they are a major player in the disease spreading also. That was one of my chief gripes about our system of "protection"...they still allow those practices. Packers have lots of clout. Jena--who doesn't know if I should dump the cattle now or wait it out... |
Jena, judging by what happened to the markets here, I would say it would be wise to wait a bit before selling. Our auctions were completely shut down for about 120 days. The government stepped in to a certain degree and pretty well forced bankers to hold off ony any loan payments that were immediate. I don't think you will be held up as long as we were in Canada. Our situation was pretty unique in the sense that nobody could find a cause or any other infected cattle and thousands were killed and tested. The US was very active in our investigation and they'll have a bit of a format to work from rather that hunting blind and if nothing else turns up, at least you have another similar case. Our case came from one of the most closed herds I've ever heard of (granted she'd had several owners since) and the only thing I found to be of interest was the area she born is dense in deer and one of the regions that chronic wasting was first found. All calves were traced and found to healthy and any animals she shared feeding programs were found to be fine. You'll find it quite surprising over the next little while, how many farms will come under quarrantine and lose their cattle for testing. I pray that all of you will not suffer as badly as we have in the last several months and you have quick answers. I would also ask you all to not be unkind or uncharitable toward the folks that sold this one cow. The poor man that last owned the cow up here was not treated nicely and at a time when he could have used a bit of support from friends and neighbors, he had to go into hiding. There was a great deal of anger directed at him for selling a cow in such poor condition and she was so down that she had to be helped onto the truck when she was shipped out. You would have thought, from the way people acted, he'd set out to destroy a whole industry on purpose. It's a tough thing for anybody in cattle and it's sure going to put a strain on everybody's Christmas.
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Jena:
Can you hedge your get a little? Round up all of your cattle the night before the next sale and line up transport. Go to the sale and see how many head are there and what they are going for. If you can live with the price, have them all hauled in. If the price drops drastically, there may be an excellent restocking opportunity for you in the future. Ken S. in WC TN |
Still eating beef!
I, for one, will not change my level of consumption of beef even if I weren't a cattle farmer.
Ken S. in WC TN ========================================== I agree with you! After visiting some of the other agri forums, I'm glad this one seems to have some facts, reason and not adding to the frenzy. Linda (going to feed the replacement heifers and hope for the best) |
The irony of all this of course, is the fear factor.People are probably far more likely to die in their car on the way to the butcher shop than eating the beef they bought there.However- facts don't have much weight, fear is irrational.Look at the impact SARS had-shutdown borders- but far more people die of flu- and how many people even get a flu shot?
Of course, I still hold the view that once we move out of what nature intended, cattle eating grass, hay and plant material, and start feeding them animal protein for no other reason than to put weight on them, we open the door to a whole lot of problems- most of which are avoidable. Personally, I would prefer to eat meat from a grass fed beef raised on a local farm, but we can't all enjoy that luxoury.I do like deer, though, at least it hasn't been pumped full of hormones and fed goodness knows what. |
American and Canadian beef is the safest in the world. For the next little while, you'll find the industry will go through absolute hell. The media will make speculations and churn things up till its at an absolute frenzied level. I don't now if you all know it or not but it's our own doing that the every country is closing their doors to your beef and did to ours a while ago. This is not actually a choice but part of an emergency program that Canada and the US orchestrated along with the WHO. It's happend to you exactly the same way it did to us and after the investigation, you'll see certain countries start relaxing. Jena, watch your markets carefully and if you do sell, be there so you can either buy them back or put a reserve bid on them. Our prices are still lower than they were but not as bad as they could be. There was a while where people had to sell to meet obligations and there were plenty of people ready to take them up on their offer at 5 cents a pound. Our auction houses were completely shut down for 8 - 12 weeks, in Alberta, to stop the movement of cattle while the early stages of the investigation were underway. I would urge you all to stay calm and take any "reports" with a grain of salt unless there is a federal vet standing in front of the mike. The investigation phase is turbulent and because they're looking at every possible connection, the whole thing is quite disturbing. At one point in time, we had something like 22 separate farms in Alberta under quarrantine in Alberta and folks were in a terrible panic, thinking we had that many cases of bse. In reality, they were tracing a brand of feed supplement that turned up nothing but in the meantime, the media had released those people's names and they were subjected to unwanted scrutiny during a very difficult time. This might not be as bad as you beleive. The US is the very last, large cattle producing country to have had the BSE Free status and I would think this just puts us all back on an even playing field. I've watched the growing list of countries that aren't accepting you beef for the moment and I can tell you that you will be back in business with almost every one of them sooner than you think, with the exception of Japan and they may have no choice. I'm not sure why they're so rigid because they've had more cases that anybody else. Trade will resume gradually and it will be frozen meat, no bone cuts of younger animals first and then things come back gradually. I'm sorry I'm posting to agressively but I'm of the mind that others will also read this, including visitors and I want everybody to understand that they need to stay calm, have some facts and support their beef and dairy industries domestically. Farmers and ranchers have supported many people and causes over the years, they feed the nation and they need domestic support now.
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look at it this way, picture a summer evening, barbeques on, cold brew in one hand ,a few friends in,and what would you rather have- a T-Bone steak, or a Tofu burger?Yeah,I thought so.This too will pass.I figure a lot of closed borders are nothing more than oportunism...and sorry, the US is as guilty as any.Trouble is, it's always the little guy that gets hurt, the producer,the big guys get bailed out by the government
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There are many questions to be answered, one of mine is this: How many other cows have gone to the packers from this farm that were not downer cows? Maybe some went because of low production? Age ? Etc. So they are now in the meat chain. This cow was only tested because it was a downer, what about the others?
My second question: The Red Cross will not accept blood from people that have lived in Europe between certain times because of BSE, I presume by that that they believe that it can be transfered to other humans. Then why would some cuts of beef be safe? Blood is blood-right. Maybe I'm not looking at this correctly? Carol K |
I'm going out on a speculation limb on this one. Cattle blood to humans would be cross-species. A blood transfusion between humans is within-species. Within species transmittal is far easier than cross-species.
Ken S. in WC TN |
Carol. possibly others have been sold from the same farm but that isn't a guarantee of anything. In Canada, we found that over 2000 cattle that might have shared feed sources, pasture or been in contact with the single cow or any of her offspring, were in no way affected by the disease. Each animal and their calves were individually tested and none came up positive. I do know that the disease you fear is so very rare and they are not sure that it actually does come from meat. I think you need more information before anybody panics. We need to know a lot more about this single cow. I'd like to know if she's in an area with a lot of domestic deer/elk, what her age is. The fact that she is a dairy cow, would lead me to wonder if she was imported from somewhere and how long this particular farmer has actually owned her or if she was born there. If you are concerned about the meat you consume, buy muscle cuts and avoid real sausage casings.
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Please forgive my ignorance here before I ask my questions.
Why are downed cows allowed to be processed in the first place? How could anyone in good conscience knowingly send any sick cow (whatever they were sick from) out for processing? Isn't that like selling a defective product without notifying the end consumer? Our Fox affiliate showed a sister station's investigation of that particular packing plant and they had some surveillance video of cows that were either dead or close to to it being dragged or winched up to the processing area--that did not do much to inspire confidence in the safety of the meat supply. I hope this is an isolated case, but they need to definitely change the laws on downed cows. |
my point exactly- why are diseased cattle being sold?
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Wr, if I have given you the impression somehow that I am overly concerned or in a panic then I have conveyed the wrong message. I'm from England, and lived through the "scare" times so I know how the media can put people in a frenzy. I also know how little we know about this disease, and how little people know about how meat reaches them as shown in the previous message about "why we are processing downer cows". I'm just interested in how this is all going to go down, and if the general public are going to get all the info they should.
Ken, you really think species don't cross contaminate and form some mutated form of the disease?? So you are ok with feeding animal parts to other animals? Carol K |
"Ken, you really think species don't cross contaminate and form some mutated form of the disease?? So you are ok with feeding animal parts to other animals?"
That's not what I said. My point was cross-species transmission is more difficult than within-species transmission. Well, unless you are a vegan, you are an animal which eats parts from other animals. Cannibalism within the human species goes back to the dawn of man. The only ones who have ever gotten ill over it are the tribes which eat the brains - Kurdo or something. If you feed the pigs being fattened up with table scraps would you remove anything animal related, such as fat cut off pork chops? Meat and Bone Meal (M&BM) was an excellent, cheap, protein source for livestock, and still is today. It just that M&BM from ruminants cannot be fed to other ruminants. Some feeds have ground up chicken feathers. Some feedlots include composted poultry litter as a feed supplement. Even being a Vegan doesn't keep you necessarily healthy as the recent case of Hepititis A in scallots attests. Is tuna OK or bad for you this week? Growing and raising your own doesn't offer absolute protection. As noted MCD was found in some closed herds on farms which grew all of their feed. No outside animal contact. No feed purchased off the farm. Where did it come from. Spontaneous is as good of a theory as bird droppings or comet dust - both of which were checked out. Ken S. in WC TN |
P.S. My understanding is this cow was partially paralized following calving - not an uncommon occurance. It walked (or whatever) into the cattle truck; however, by the time it arrived at the slaughter plant, it could not get up on its own. It was not diseased, but USDA requires any such cows have a test sample drawn. It then continues through processing rather than being held the several weeks testing takes on the assumption it does not have MCD. This happens to thousands of cattle a year and this is the first which tested positive.
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First of all, I want to thank y'all for presenting the facts in a clear, level-headed manner. I am not a rancher. I am a consumer of beef though, so I decided that I needed to be informed. My best friend today mentioned in an IM conversation "Well, we are offically off beef" :no: That realy made me mad. I told her that I needed to do some research before I made that big of a decision for my family. Beef prices have been going up lately (like all protein foods, thanks to the low carb diets) and we are barely able to afford ground chuck for our family. And in truth now that I have been doing some reading online I am a bit releaved since I know that the beef prices will be going down. I am also sadded because they will probably go so far down that people like y'all will probably loose thier shirts.
Jena, you wonderd if you should start selling directly to the consumer. My first thought about this was that I would certainly feel safer buying a side or half side from a neighbor who I know used non-animal feed (or what ever the correct term is, sorry) like grass, hay or corn. I do not know if you could print up some kind of a phamphlet to re-educate people about how safe your beef realy is. Most of them will probably be like my friend and freak out and start eating a lot of chicken. Someone else mentioned that this is what happens when we start messing around with the animals in a way that God did not intend for them to be cared for. I agree. In the next few days or weeks I will be closely watching this to see where it goes and I will continue to stop in here to get the real facts from the people who know. Thanks! God Bless you and yours Debbie |
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I'm an outsider to the world of cattle, all I have are chickens and guineas. I'm not panicking, I'm just trying to fathom why sick cattle are processed for *human* consumption--as opposed to canine or other animal. The human thing was news to me. It seems intuitively like it would be a bad idea. |
Carol:
"Downer" is a generalized term used to describe any cattle which have difficulty moving on their own. It may be a cow partially paralized while calving (which was apparently the case here), one with a broken leg, several foot infection, cancer eye - fairly common in Herefords, blind, severe pink eye, severe arthritis or just plain out old age as folks try to get just one more calf out of them. These are not diseased and the meat is still fit for consumption - although most will go to the pet food market. Most diseased animals are destroyed and disposed of on the farm. The livestock where I take my cattle have a no dead or diseased animals policy, however, some still do make it through the process. When identified, my understanding those are usually sent to a rendering plant. Again, my understanding is this cow showed none of the symptoms associated with MCD, such as staggering and charging. The human version of MCD, JCD?, mimics the symptoms of Alzheimers, but the end comes much quicker. It was only when Alzheimer-type symptoms started showing up in young people in England it was linked to MCD. Actually, given a choice between JCD and Alzheimers, I'll take JCD. Ken S. in WC TN |
Ken, I think you meant your post to RAC, not me, although I found it interesting too. You mention that most diseased cows don't get processed for human consumption but BSE sometimes doesn't show for many years, so if a cow with just a broken leg lets say goes to the food chain we actuallt don't know if it has BSE or not-do we? It's these sort of things that bother me.
Carol K |
http://www.organicconsumers.org/
This site has lots of info on BSE and its many forms in different species. I don't know if it is biased as it's from the organic site, but it's useful. Carol K |
"...but BSE sometimes doesn't show for many years, so if a cow with just a broken leg lets say goes to the food chain we actuallt don't know if it has BSE or not-do we? It's these sort of things that bother me."
You are 100% correct. However, once you separate out the brain and spinal tissue (assuming you get it all), it reduces the chance of getting CJD by a factor so large I don't know how to quantify it. It's not a show of bravo, but I'd be willing to eat a nice steak from the particular cow in question. No system is going to be perfect. USDA policy was to address those which problems just in case, which is how this one was caught. Trials are now underway which can test for MCD through a blood sample with near 100% accuracy. This will stop the need for mass slaughter for brain disecting. I don't know how to answer the question on animal by-products in feed. My Co-op says they use absolutely none in any of their feeds. My feed mill doesn't stock any B&BM from ruminants to make sure it isn't mixed in feed accidentially. But keep in mind the USDA ban is on feeding M&MB from ruminants to other ruminants. It is allowed for say hogs and poultry. If you have any reservations on beef just restrict your purchases to muscle cuts and avoid any with bone, such as ribs or t-bones, and hamburger. For the latter, if you have a home grinder buy roasts and grind your own. Ken S. in WC TN |
Just to be clear....meat and bone meal from ruminants is NOT allowed in ANY livestock feed. I do believe it is still allowed in pet feed (dogs and cats), but not for cattle, hogs or poultry.
Jena |
So if a relatively healthy looking cow can have it..what about when we go to local butchers? How do they tell if the cow has it? Or do they even look?
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Here is something I would also like to add. I was a member of the meats judging team in college. We would go to practice at a large beef processing plant. The cleanliness of the place was unbelieveable, even with the processing going on. Also, the carcass was tagged. The head was tagged. The guts where tagged. They would run tests on them and would know where that carcass was at, where it came from, etc. All of the equipment used for slaughter and processing is so ergonomically designed to prevent injury to the workers performing the same procedures and to provide the most efficiency while processing the beef. I was not only in the refrigerated area looking at thousands of carcasses, but on the kill floor as well. I am not going to get scientific about probablility of how this spreads, etc. And I know that not every place performs and follows correct procedures, etc. I just wanted to give some insight from someone who has been there and witnessed how the processing was done.
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"So if a relatively healthy looking cow can have it..what about when we go to local butchers? How do they tell if the cow has it? Or do they even look?"
You are absolutely right. Had this cow simply been culled for perhaps low milk production or being a hard milker she would not have been tested. Currently the only test is to take tissue samples of the brain. I don't know how many cattle are slaughtered every day in the U.S., but the number is surely rather large. 100% testing would have been a huge undertaking. Testing only downer cows was a reasonable compromise. Blind testing is no going on for a blood test which can detect MCD prions. So far it has a 100% match to tissue testing. When it is released, I would expect at least every dairy cow to be tested, probably annually. May or may not be extended to beef cattle. While it may have happened, I don't recall hearing of a single case of MCD being confirmed in a beef (non-dairy) animal. No system is going to be 100% absolute. Ken S. in WC TN |
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I think dairy cows might be more suspectible simply due to the conditions under which they live. They are fed more commercial feeds and more "high quality" feeds with more protein. Nutrition is not as critical in beef cows and "high quality" feed is expensive. Not as many beef cows are fed commercial feeds. Those that are will be slaughtered well before the 30 month's old deadline that minimizes the risk of them being ill. Jena |
Any thoughts on d-activated animal serol as vitamin D supplement used in cattle feed? Just wondering>>> Tom
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Jena |
Testing only downer cows was a reasonable compromise.
.................................................. .. Really? So a cow can have it..only it isn't detected if they are slaughtered early? If they are not showing any signs of illness..we can still catch it..right? I am confused about how this disease works Its really unsettling to have to depend on the government...how do we know there weren't more cases..that had been covered up? I read a news story that said that the USDA (I think) wasn't taking the scientists seriously enough a few months back. They suggested testing ALL cattle, even if it meant costing us a few more cents to the pound. As a beef eater..I would definitely want all precautions taken. Perhaps if they had taken precautions earlier..it could have saved the shirts of alot of farmers..who will more than likely take a hit for this. |
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I think you need a someone with a bit more education than me to actually understand what that means. I wonder if that is where the vitmain D in milk comes from. Jena |
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