learning the hard way (long)

My neighbor got a look at a major AI provider's book of AI bulls, and every one of the bulls had their A2 status listed.

A2 testing has just been made available for private owners in the US, through the Veterinary Genetics Lab at UC Davis, but it was available to commercial dairies for a few years prior to that. Even though your local dairyman might not know about A2 milk, your big AI providers do.

My neighbor was able to select an A2/A2 Jersey bull and bought several straws. He was shocked at how few there were! His guess was only about 10% of the AI Jersey bulls in that catalog were A2/A2 and he only saw one Holstein bull that was A2/A2.

He was doubly disappointed because he'd just put an A2/A2 Jersey bull in the freezer because it was too aggressive. If he'd known how scarce they were, he'd have kept it.

There are two A2/A2 Dexter bulls listed on the ADCA AI Bulls page. Dexters are a great choice for breeding a Jersey. The cross is so popular it has several different names, like Belfair, Belmont and Irish Jersey. It's a good way to get a small, easy birthing calf that is smaller than standard and makes really good beef.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

Another thought on taking the class... If this guys the only show in town, maybe you should take the class and give him some competition? I bet the smaller Jersey place could give you enough business to keep you in practice for your own cow. And it could give you a little side business too. They'd probably appreciate having a guy just down the road as apposed to as far a way as this guy sounds like he is.

The AI guy near here charges $65 a pop, plus semen cost. Or he charges $35 a year to store your semen.

Anyway, I called a young dairyman near me and he said he'd do my AI for $20 and I would provide the semen and he'd store it for nothing. I said no deal. I told him I need to pay him more or he'll lose interest when he's busy, and I only have a cow or two. So I pay him $50.

Maybe you could advertise on Craigslist or somewhere breeders hang out and see if someone is doing AI and if you paid well enough they'd be willing to deal with the hassle.

I know how you feel! A couple of years ago I had 1 Highland to breed.
Ran into the AI guy where I work (he had the Coba hat on and I asked him) he's the only one in our county.
He told me he does not have Highland semen,I'd have to order it and he'd store it and I asked him how much to come out and do it ,he said 7 ,my mind started reeling,what does he mean...7hundred? 70? ,can't be $7??? But I said $7? He said yes. I said how can you do that for $7 ,he said because he does a lot,I said bu t I only have one,is it more then? He said no,$7!
Well I looked and to get semen shipped I'd have to pay to ship the tank back and forth & semen,so probably $100 or more total for 1 straw so i thought I'd call and see maybe getting angus since I was new at this anyways and not sure I would catch her at the right time and don't want to loose that much....well guess what? left a message twice and he never called me back!
I guess he didn't ant to mess with the 'small guy' girl after all!
Ended up borrowing a friends angus and she had twins!
He name is Callie by the way .LOL!
Then when my Heifer came of age I bought a Highland bull,got him reasonable as a yearling, figure I can sell him or trade or eat him after a couple of years!
Chris

I don't have any advice for you Callie, but some commiseration. I tired of learning the hard way too. I had both my yearling heifers AIed this year, not cheap by the time you add up all the drugs and what not........Then I sent in blood tests. The yearling heifers are both open, not pregnant. The baby heifers I bought this year are both Freemartins. And I finally worked up my nerve to have my goats tested for CAE, they came back negative oh happy day....only to post on the goat forum and find out they are not negative enough so I should retest.

I'm disgusted. I'm outraged! And I'm outraged for you too! People suck!

Okay~ I feel a little better, but not much. You?

Wow!! Lots of thoughts for me here. I appreciate them. Was I ever wrong on several counts.

The bull is Vibrant from ABS. With some further looking, I found his Dam (Paramount Violet) and sire (Restore). That really isn't the point. After reading your comments, I realized - duh....they aren't going to sell semen from non-productive bulls. Maybe I just had the wrong idea of what the process was?

I thought we look at the strong points of the bulls and choose accordingly. I told him I wanted a better udder attachment and high fat/protein count - my cow is slightly lacking on both counts. We would pick from the bulls ABS had. I asked about A2 since I think that is an upcoming important thing to know and US dairies are going to be caught flatfooted here really soon about it. I am not keeping this heifer (if heifer it is) - but I would like to give her buyer a good idea of what she can be. I didn't know enough about his bulls to really make a named choice - just a general application and let him make suggestions. It was just his general attitude that I was ruining my cow, not making economical sense, etc. "You don't keep a cow more than 5 years...." etc.

My conversation with the AI guy was extensive enough for him to have known what I wanted. If he didn't have it, he could have just said so. Then we could have looked at something appropriate that he DID have. I am not asking him to lose money on me. Just simple honesty. I don't expect miracles. Goodness, I have limits that I have to operate under too. Something like, "Callie, I appreciate what you are trying to do here. But, you don't need the very best bull with this cow. I would have to charge you for the whole straw and we would have to wait until her next cycle before I got it in. Wating puts her out of her most fertile window. Why don't you look at this guy - he's number 3 and as good of a match for the improvements that you would like to make. I have sexed semen from him right here and we can get this done today. " Now that's an attitude that I can work with and feel resepcted while I am learning.

So sorry Cheryl. It ain't easy by any means. But I think I haven't had it as bad as you! Hope it gets better. If I would just learn to stand up for myself and lay things out on the table BEFORE I jump....oh the troubles I could avoid!!!

Callie, I sometimes have the same trouble. I found that if I sit down and outline what I want to say, it helps me to remember and not get mixed up when dealing with a salesperson, vet , doctor, etc.

__________________
Visit the Christian Homesteader
http://farmwoman.proboards.com/index.cgi

I'd re read Erin's post. The problem is that most ag business run on very slim profit margins. They are not going to lose money (or more money) on a new, small customer that experience tells them them will be gone in less than five years. If they want to stay in business they have to serve the big customer, the one that has a long term, often generational relationship with the business.

The feed store can order what you want, but he is going to be reluctant to stock something that he can't sell if you don't buy it. And something that you may be able to buy cheaper online or at a place where they can move lots of the product.

The same is true of the AI guy. If you change your mind can he use the semen? Is he sure your cow is caught and ready to go when he gets there? Once you build a relationship things may be different.

If in fact you had talked to a custom hay guy, not someone who makes his own hay and was willing to help you if he could, you have the same thing. It costs just as much to move equipment to do 10 acres of hay as it does 100. He probably has a number of fields he does every year and in most parts of the country the weather was weird and not good for haying. Did you want him to put you first at some long term customers expense? Is that the way you want to be treated?

The other problem you are facing is that most ag business have had poor experiences with homesteaders. They have ideas they picked up online which don't work everywhere, they know that if they read it somewhere it is true and they don't care if you have years of experience in the area. They also don't last long, our experience is 3 to 5 years. While none of this may pertain to you, these business tend to go by what they have seen over the years. One other thing--you are a woman in a man's world. Many don't take you seriously, although I think things are changing slowly.

Well, Molly, aren't you a bag of fun today? It is in my mind that service is service no matter who you are serving. Politeness is politeness no matter who you are talking to. No one here has asked anyone to lose any money in providin anything for me. If it costs him to come to me, then why doesn't he just say so and then we are in a position to work with each other honestly. Or he could just tell me he isn't interested. NO, he said he would come, he said he would produce such and such kind of semen for me. I had her ready and waiting at the time most convenient to HIM. He is already in my area -I also worked with that by giving her the shot he recommended. I have already admitted that the bull he chose is probably a fine bull. No worries there. It was the 'attitude'.

What you are saying is that it's okay to be disrespectful and dishonest if I am not paying as much money as someone else. If the truckers in ErinP's story had signed a contract to pick up for the smaller feed lot, would it have been okay for them to bail out for bigger money? I don't feel this to be true. I have not asked anyone to lose any money in coming to me. I pay what I am asked.....He gets no less, makes no extra trip, buys no extra straws for me. (and he didn't give me the option to do so either.....which I would have done if needed.) I didn't ask for him to lecture me on what I was doing wrong - didn't ask or pay for his comments on A2 testing (the other semen co have it right there on their websites, it's not as silly to them).

As for the hay - again, we had an agreement. No one asked or demanded to be first. There was no call to say that he just wasn't going to be able to make it. NOTHING. THAT was the PROBLEM. If I am not big enough to bother with - the way of honest businessmen is just to say so or state what it will take to make it worth it to them. Not to say, "yes, I will" and then not do it. No matter who you make the most money from - honesty is honesty and respect is respect.

Unfortunately, all of this is true as well.
When I introduce us to new businesses, it's not as the small operators that we actually are. It's always that plus "My husband runs the cattle outfit for the XYZ. We used to manage the Smith ranch up north of here..."

Ie, for right or for wrong, our own little operation gives us no credibility whatsoever.
However, the fact that my husband is running a 700 head ranch in the area, does.

__________________
~*~Erin~*~
SAHM, ranch wife, sub and quilt shop proprietress
the Back Gate Country Quilt Shop

Growing up we had a small operation (20-40 head of beef cattle, a few swine, chickens, milk cow, etc) We found it was easier to just do it yourself (ie, have your own bull, bale your own hay, etc) or take what you get. Most people I knew of with just a couple head of cattle or just one milk cow, etc, would use a neighbors beef bull usually free due to the tight knit community. As far as the attitude, you will find that people that have grown up in a profession do feel differently towards people who as they see it are in it as a hobby and especially when those act as if they know more than the ones who have grown up doing it. Old farmers also tend to treat "college" farmers the same way.

Humorous story Jerry Clower used to tell:

Marcell Ledbetter had an old goose that got to looking poor, off her feed, loosing her feathers and just looking puny. Worried he wrote all her symptoms in a letter to the head of agriculture at Mississippi State and said although he could stand the loss of the goose, he really worried about her 10 little goslings. A week later he got a letter from MSU from the head of Veterinary medicine that stated:
Mr Ledbetter:
I received your letter concerning your goose. I have reviewed the symptoms and can diagnose that you are out of your mind trying to suckle 10 goslings on on old goose!

And another...
A recent graduate from MSU Ag program was driving down a country road when he had a flat near a farmers field. The farmer walked over and helped him change the flat. In tthe course of conversation he found that the boy was graduated from MSU. He said "Well son with your background and being you are a big strapping boy, maybe you could help me pull this calf out here in the field"
the boy agrees and they go to the cow and after several attempts he pulls the calf and everything appears fine. The farmer offers his thanks! the boy replies "Well it was no big deal but you got to tell me one thing..................................How fast was that lil calf running when it hit that cow????????"

I love Jerry Clower. "Knock 'em out John!"

__________________
~Carla~

You share my thoughts. Southwest Michigan is hugely agricultural. I don't understand Callielambs lament about not being able to get hay baled or find dairy help.

I wonder if she has tried to ask for assistance at Community Mills in Cassopolis or at Fillmore John Deere in Eau Claire.

Jim

Lazy J,
You must have missed the threads where I whined about my hay all summer. My baler didn't show this year - didn't call. Nothing until mid-July. Which is when his dad died and he wasn't baling then. Still promised to come. Didn't come. He did very well by me last year. I was surprised how it didn't work out this year. Not looking for dairy help, not sure about that statement. Cassopolis is 50 miles from me - there is a large animal vet there, but he doesn't do AI. We have been to the Deere dealership in EC. Uh...they sell very expensive, veyr large machines. We have gotten more information from out-of-the-garage tractor repair guys. We are highly agricultural here - orchards vineyards and row crops. Not many cattle - there are quite a few horses around. The only dairy that I know of is a 5-cow jersey dairy 25 miles away and a very large one 40 miles north. Not even many beef cows. My feed store guy orders grain in for me special....!! I call him ahead to be sure he has some for me each month. Usually, he doesn't have it on hand, but will have some ready when I tell him I will be there.

I really wanted to see how others dealt with the frustrations of being the small guy. That's what I meant this thread to discuss, not me. Sometimes, frustration is at every corner - like when the AI guy came.

BWF-That made me laugh! Shoot up here amongst us, one of us got to have relief! LOL!

Callie-I hope your cow settles and gives you a nice healthy calf in the months ahead. Take care and better days ahead!

__________________
~Carla~