your suggestions for starting grass raised beef
 

Looking to start a grass based beef operation in the Missouri area. Yes, it will be set up with rotational grazing. Assuming someone has 40- 60 acres of decent grass, that is already perimiter fenced, and has water set up. I am looking more for the thoughts of how many heifers would you start with? Would you use AI, or have a bull, or 2 or more run with them? How many calves would you keep? How would you run your breeding program over the next few years? Would also like to hear each persons opinion on what type of animals would you purchase, and where would you purchase them? Keep in mind I would like to start off fairly quickly, and not wait to build up the herd. If you have any thoughts on how much the start up cost would be for your plans, or how much the estimated yearly income might be for your plan, I would like to hear that too. I hope to keep the thought on herd start up, rather than grass concepts. This is my first post on here, but I have been reading many post for a while now, and really enjoy the quality of the feed back. Thanks ahead of time.

You ask some good questions. Speaking form experience learn to grow your grass to get peek growth at the right stage of growth on your calves.
From experience do your home work on getting the right kind of cattle that will finish out on grass. Not just every calf that is born will marble and finish out using grass as the base. There are several grass fed ranches in area, go to Stockman Grass Farmer web site that is a good place to start in your search.
I have a question for you
How are you going to market your product?
Research Research Research!!!!!!

Thanks for the reply. The long term goal will be to direct market to the customer. Because I am moving to a new state, that will be a few years down the road. It will take a while to get info out about my product, and get a customer base. So to begin with I will be selling to several family members, and sale barn.

I had a wise old farmer give me some advice one time. It was simply this: Learn to grow grass before you try to grow cattle. SIMPLE! I learned the hard way on more than one occasion that it's easy to overstock a piece of ground and put a burden on your grass that takes years and money to reverse.

Not being sure what part of Mo you are moving to, but. Have you considered buying weaned calves and finishing them on grass. This would allow you a faster turnover and wouldn't tie up all your grass maintaining cows. Also , if in northern Missouri, I suspicion you better line up a winter supply of feed for whatever you raise. 40 acres in some areas ,even on a rotation, will not carry a large number of cows.

We run Belted Galloways....a "heritage breed". There is a big difference among species who can make the most out of the forage you have. I would recommend researching this breed and a number of others at www.albc-usa.org. Old/ancient breeds that are basically hands off. They grow slower but the virtual lack of inputs makes them optimal for pure forage.

Yes, I do understand that 90% of being a grass feed beef farmer, is knowing how to manage your grass. That is why I was hoping to get more info on the genetic, and reproduction side. I see the agman is on today, maybe I can get some input from him :-)

thestartupman

Hi, welcome to the site!

I do consider myself to be a conservative grass farmer first and a cattleman second with self imposed compelled to perform management constraints.

I read your posts earlier and did not respond because I am not knowledgeable in replicating what I do in Missouri. It is never my intent to give out incorrect information. I will share information that I know that works for me. Realize, I share information that is often controversial particularly when read by conventional producers.

I will answer to my best capability any questions you may have but to give response to your above posting is too broad based to reply to with a few sentences. Please post any rotational grazing questions a few at a time in the sticky above so that we can share with others without having to retype. Thanks

I guess that a single type of question that I would want to ask would be. If you have 40 acres of property that can support 30 cow calf pairs, how would you start your herd? Where would you get your animals, what kind would you get, how many animals would you start with, and would you run them with bulls, and if so, how many?

Hi. I live in MO and the only thing I can say for sure is that the weather will not do the same thing each year.

Where in the state are your 40 acres to be located? Seems that black hided cows make the best price, but they really are standing around with their tongues hanging out with this summers heat/humidity. Not gaining as quick as even the broken black coated cattle for this summer. This according to my very local sources in SW MO.


Next year (maybe even next month) will be different. LOL.

~How soon do you hope to see a sale of your cattle?
~You have fences and water set up?
~What type of forage is planted to these acres?
~How about shade/shelter from weather in the paddocks?

I think more info is needed in order to help you. :)
Cattlemen tend to be a conservative bunch and the more info you give them, the better their advice will be.

Welcome aboard!

Hi, Gone-a Milkin
I do not live in MO yet. I plan to be there late fall to early winter. I was just using the thoughts of water, and proper fencing being taken care of so i could focus this thread more on what type of cattle, and ideas on a breeding program. Doesn't seem to be getting much response in this line of thought. The area I am looking at in MO is the south west area, not set in stone yet though.

Okay, well that is why you arent getting a huge response. :)

These guys really know their grasses and their gain ratios and all that stuff.
Your questions are pretty vague, so far. Which makes sense, since you are not here yet. :D

What do you hope to achieve from this cattle project? This is a serious question, not pie-in-the-sky! Have you got much experience with cows? Not a judgement AT ALL, but that info will help the folks here to advise you.

If you plan to sell your grass-finished beef here locally in SWMO. I will let you know right now that not everyone is into that here. There is a market for it, but there are a lot of people who are perfectly content w/ grain-finished beef (and for a reason).

I grew up on a 200 head Jersey dairy in Skagit County WA, and I am telling you right now that SWMO is a whole other ball of wax. :gaptooth:

You need to get out here and see for yourself. Nothing else is going to cut it. :)

From the looks of your pics, I don't think it is that much different (at least central to north missouri). Somewhat harsher winters and maybe more prone to drought or flood year to year. More fescue but also plenty of bluegrass and timothy. Some orchard grass, bromme, and eastern gamma as well. Several varities of native warm season grasses. Not much bermuda but I thinks some is used in south MO. Legumes birds foot trefoil, ladino, white clovers, crimison, alfafa all common. Soil is generally clay loam of various qualities.

I grew up in IN and worked on a dairy farm there. I moved to WA with my family years ago, and worked on two different dairy farms. I have not had first hand experience working with grass fed beef, but I am a firm believer in the concept. I have been to MO three times so far, and the last time began to focus on the SW area. I believe the climate in MO is very simular to IN, you can correct me if I am wrong. I understand that I do not have all the experience that I wish I had, but figure I have two choices. Keep working like I have been and dreaming of making the move, or I can make the choice to make the move, and work hard to achieve my dream. I have made the decision to do the later. No turning back, and no regrets, just a rough journey ahead, and the rewards that go along with it.

No shame in any of that. :)

the questions are:

what do you hope to gain from this project?
how soon do you need to see revenue, sales?
what kinds of grass/forage/fencing/water/shade for the cows?
what type of forage is planted to to the land right now?

Okay, where did you get the number "30 cow/calf pairs" from?
Is that what you want to start with, or an estimate of what the acreage will carry?
Just curious.

I hope to gain grass fed beef for myself, and family, and a suplemental income. I realize that it will be a cople years before I see any real income.
As far as the grass and fencing, I can't quite answer these questions until I finally find the property, and place a bid on it. I know that I will be looking for good grass land, and will be doing soil test before putting an offer on the property.

As far as the 30 cow calf pairs, it is just a number that i feel 40 acres could support in the properties I have seen in MO. I understand, I could be off. Just a place to start the conversation from.

If your going to be in South MO, I suggest you rethink your plan of direct to consumers with freezer beef. You may be able to sell a few but not all. The bulk of agriculture in South MO is beef production. Missouri (not a well known fact) is the second most cattle producing state in the union. It may be possible if you direct market in KC or Saint Louis--depends on which you are close to. The local area though--forget about it.

That does suprize me that MO is the second most producing state for beef in the US. I do know that the going green, get back to natural foods movement isn't near as strong in the rest of the US as it is here on the west coast. Being as small as I am looking to be with only 40-60 acres of cattle property, I think it will be do able. It looks like family and friends alone will acount for three animals per year.

I understand your enthusiasm to want to burst into the grass fed beef business but I feel a need to caution you. Forty acres of good pasture will not IMO support 30 pair of beef cattle year round initially. There is a lot to be learned and without that background a lot will be at risk.


My recommendation is to purchase 20 commercial Angus heifers out of a group that has been preconditioned to be sold to a feedlot. You can add to this number as time passes and your market is established. These animals will be more affordable and closer to what you need for rotational grazing. I would also recommend that you buy a registered Angus bull from someone already doing rotational grazing and feeding forage alone. Your eventual customers will readily accept the breed and that is what they have been conditioned to believe is good meat.


The cattle need to be purchased in Missouri. These cattle need to be adapted to what they will be eating throughout the year. I am aware there is a lot of fescue in MO and it will take you time to learn how to feed and produce it without its negative side impacting your operation. The cattle should to be docile, small framed, weighing around 1050 lbs and give only a moderate amount of milk. They should be able to calve unaided and quick to recycle and require no shelter.

You never stated whether you were going to seasonally produce calves or whether you were going to produce calves throughout the year as my herd does. What do you plan on doing for Winter feed?

Thanks for the info Agman. To answer your question, I believe I would prefer to have the bull run with the herd, and calve year around. I do have a couple questions though.

When you say 20 heifers preconditioned to be sold to a feedlot, what exactly do you mean?

If you start with 20 heifers, how do you go about culling your herd, and keeping daughters to the bull? What plan do you put in place?

Sorry, I forgot to answer your other question. My plan for winter feed will be to cut hey during the high growth season, and purchase as nessisary to start with. The long term goal will be to stock pile the grass in the field to reduce labor, and keep nutrients on the farm. I just kow it will take a while on the land to understand what fields do best at certain times of the year. What fields you can get the animals on the fields early in the spring, what ones are wet, and need to keep them off of. What ones keep the growth coming later into the season, and these types of things.

In the area where your farm will be there should be a cattle auction where animals are sold. Cow/calf operations often will through the county extension office group and have sales of calves that have been preconditioned to go to feedlots to be fed out. I am suggesting that you buy heifers in the 500 to 600 lb range out of these preconditioned animals. After the animals are on your place and reach 750 lbs introduce a bull and start your production. A blood test can be made to verify pregnancy. When the calves are born you will observe which heifers are the best moms and which produce the better offspring. By this time you should also be be buying a few more heifers if necessary and selling off the ones that you dislike. You can also keep your best heifers from your stock. I would suggest that you keep a closed herd after your have the beginning herd the size that your farm can support. You can influence the herd genetics by the selection of the replacement bull that you will cycle into the herd. I do occasionally permit the bull to breed its offspring but typically the resulting calf goes to market. I seldom retain a bull more than 3 years. PS...I do want a heifer bred at around 750 lbs and near 15 months of age thus calving at around 24 months of age. It is difficult for a heifer calving at 3 years of age to reach the profit return of a heifer calving at 2.

I would echo agman's advice with one exception. When buying heiffers for breeding purposes, it would be best to find ones who have not been implanted with growth hormones or whatever the current implant is called. Most that are planned for feedlot destination have been implanted. I second what he says about size and age for breeding. (Although size will vary some according to breed)

Why would you bother with a blood test if your bull is running with the herd? Wouldn't you just watch for signs, then cull those that are still open, or do you need to find out as quickly as possible so you are not wasting grass on them?

Ontario grass fed
 

We started selling grass fed beef this year at the farmers markets. first of all I can say that your beef doesn't have to be perfect to beet grocery store beef. It is our first year selling and we have had great reviews. The first thing I would do if direct marketing is find a good processor. They can make or break you when you direct market.
We are lucky enough to have found a local breeder of small framed black angus cattle. We have been buying his calves and finishing them. We could be doing a better job at caring for the grass, but so far the meat has been great. Small Angus marble well. Also another trick is to market your calves a little younger. Younger beef is more tender.
We have also bought an Angus bull so next year we will have our own calves to sell from our angus, hereford, and shorthorn cows.
:cow:

FWIW...You are not going to find a huge market for grass fed beef here unless you are marketing in a big city - St. Louis or Kansas City. Most people around here are completely happy with their grain fed beef and cheap prices. It's hard for us to get $1.50 to $1.75 for our beef when everyone wants if for the $.85 a lb they saw somebody advertising some for on craigslist.

Thanks Rachel K. I will definately have to do my home work before trying to go that route. I do believe that it will be a nation wide movement before it slows down. It maybe rough to start in MO, but it also maybe rewarding as it works its way across the country.

Yeah, everyone thinks it should something like Wyoming or Montana, but there is something to be said for the ability to graze a cow calf pair on 2-5 acres vs 50 to 500. Obviously Texas is #1 for its bulk size and the huge run of good grass from Fort Worth to the gulf.

I really thought I had finally found a place to get more opinions on ideas. I guess I was surprised to not get much response. :-(

Often when people agree with what others have posted they don't post. The lack of dissent is a good sign that a lot of folks agree with what has been posted.

What other questions did you have? They're probably already answered Here

If not, ask them there, as that post get's TONS of traffic: 1,124+ Replies & 28,524+ Views. A lot of folks are on the Subscription list for that thread, myself included.

I originally started out with a group of bred heifers, then found a good bull to get them bred after they had calved. I could then use the same bull on the heifer calves out of the original group of bred heifers.

The bred heifers were some commercial black angus that one of my neighbor's was selling, and the bull came from a local breeder of registered Black Angus bulls. The bulls were raised out on pasture in a way similar to our pastures, so in my mind, they would easily adapt to our conditions. Additionally, I could easily buy similar bulls in the future from him.

I think you want a bull with a moderately low birthrate EPD (not extremely low, under 2.0), and your bull should have proportions similar to those outlined at: http://www.bovineengineering.com/linear.html

Put some effort into looking around your local area and finding good cattle for sale, start small, and grow into your herd. Find a good young bull and 12-15 bred heifers, (a 18 month old bull should be able to easily handle 15 cows in his first breeding season and the 20-24 cows and heifers in his second season, etc.) Spend a lot of time talking to a bunch of people about their cattle and looking at as many cattle as possible.

Thanks Ramiller. I think that the idea of buying bred heifers is a good one.

Take a look at Pharo's webite. They have "associates" One of those assocites is in MO (St Joe, Queen City? I forget without looking). Anyway, it may be a good place to pick up some genetics for a smaller frame size and easier finishing on grass.

I will check it out, thanks for the info.

thestartupman,
I sent you a message.
We are raising and selling grass fed beef in SE Missouri but you must find and cater to the people that want healthy, humane, natural foods. Joe down the road would rather buy a steer from his neighbor that has been stuffed full of corn and then pay to have it processed even if in the end he is paying a similar price the $1/lb (hanging wt) sounds so good.
It's very important to build a customer base through a website, social networking (facebook page) etc. For us, we are slowly building up and have only sold 3 steers and 10 hogs worth of meat but we could have sold much more than that because the demand is there. However, it would probably be a challenge if we had 30 steers to sell meat from at this point. Problem number one is where would we put it all while we were selling it? We will be needing a walk in freezer before long.

The OP asked some important questions and seems serious in this plan.
Do you know the going prices for the bred cows you intend to start off with? Can you pasture year around or will you be needing to buy hay? What is hay selling for this year in your area? Where is the closest slaughter plant? Can you perform AI? Will you build stansions or buy a head gate to hold your cattle for AI?
There have been a few comments about grain fed vs grass fed. You have eaten grass fed beef?

Wstevenl, thanks for the encouragement, I know the market is there, you just have to find the way to them.

Haypoint, I can't say that I have the answer to all you're questions, but I believe I have answered most of them in previous post. I am leaning toward running a bull with the heard, so I won't need the AI. As far as the cost of bred heifers goes, that is something I have to get more details on as I get closer to making my move. Same goes with the slaughter plant, and the hay. The long term plan for hay would be to move away from feeding hay, as I improve the pastures, but again, I will have to see what shape the fields are in before I can set the plan in place.