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  #61  
Old 07/15/10, 12:58 AM
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How distressing it is that so many people do not respect the rights of a person's property in this county and believe an animal or rancher should not only have a say over their own land, but they should determine another person's life and property as well.

I would never have believed such viewpoints could be held by so many people. It is really very shocking.

The repercussions of these mind sets are scary. Imagine telling people they need to control their own cows and keep out other people's bulls - telling these people they are responsible for having fences strong enough to keep out the bull instead of the owner of the bull keeping HIS bull in. That those who are essentially audacious for waning to prevent further destruction and mayhem by possibly killing the bull or being angry and wanting something done are the ones in the wrong.

Who do ranchers imagine they really are? How is your properly and livestock more important than another's? An Acreage owner has as much right to keep shoot your livestock on his property if you will NOT keep it off as you do the right to shoot dogs, wolves, coyotes, cougars, etc that are killing your livestock on your property. Ranchers have NO MORE rights than any other owner of property - be it a yard or whatever else. They should keep their livestock off another person's property unless the law says they do not have to do so. . .

Do you forget this small farms and acreage owners might have children? You know, I suggested keeping a miniature bull behind huge, solid corral panels, and many responses said if children were around, I should not do this. . .
But there are people here suggesting that dangerous livestock have more rights than human beings do to their property, livelihood and safety.
Children can be on these properties. They can be killed by a bull coming through a fence. What then? Well, the way some of you talk, that child would get what he/she was asking for by being outside and the parents at fault for not keeping the child behind hotwire - 4 strands, at that.

It is addressed as if this woman asked for it by having dared leave her cow unbred - excuse me, but I think that a citizen has a right to be able to safely leave her cow in that state on her land, behind her fence if she so chooses without second guessing her safety or even her reasons.

I mean, I just can't fathom some of these responses. Cannot.

In this state - 4 strands of barbed wire is not enough for an uncastrated bull or stallion.
I imagine in many states, if you look to the law, you will find the law is not often going to be on the side of a loose bull in someone else's yard.

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  #62  
Old 07/15/10, 05:01 AM
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Someone asked, and yes, the bull is 2500 lbs, at least, maybe more.

The neighbor has a flat part at the bottom, at the road, where he lives, with a barn, pond and hot wire. The uphill part to my place is all woods. I can not see down there, much, some open spots, but it is too far to see well. He has a place to keep the bull locked in. The bull has always been down at the bottom.

The owner told me himself when he was here getting his bull, that the bull can walk through any fence, hot or not, a barn wall, etc. He told me that my barn was not good enough to keep his bull out if he wanted her. My barn is up by my house, 60-70 yards uphill from the fence. There are no other neighbors. All the land behind me is hunting land.

So, he knew his bull could walk through the fence if he wanted. Any fence. He knew I had a milk cow and a steer. He rides his 4 wheeler up the road sometimes and then goes back down. And there are cows across the road down there, right on the other side. And another bull. Earlier this year I saw his bull down there walking the fence along the road and screaming at the cows and bull across the street. He was firing warning shots at his bull to get away from the fence. He said his bull wanted to get to that other bull. I thought his bull stayed down at the bottom, and was only out when he was watching.

And I already said I do not want a feud or problems with the neighbor. I would not shoot the bull with the 22. I know better. But I could fire it into the ground to warn him away if he gets out and is back up here.

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  #63  
Old 07/15/10, 05:30 AM
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If he has a legal fence up (and I would expect a 4 wire barbed is probably meeting or exceeding the law), and he did come get his bull when alerted to the problem, you may need to take steps to prevent a problem from happening again. Bite the bullet and put an electric wire up on the bull's side of the fence, or lock your cow up away from the bull whenever she is in heat.

4 strands of barbed wire for a 2500 lb bull? Lock my cow up? Where do I go with her? He already told me my barn is not good enough if his bull wants my cow. There is no where to go. I can not put up a hot wire, it is all woods on his side and branches would be touching it all the time. Besides, he told me the bull will walk right through hot wire. And he has not come up to fix his side of the fence yet, my side is fixed, but his barbed wire is gone, stretched and broke.

I have seen this beast up close, and a bull of this size should be behind big walls if an owner chooses to keep one this big. We don't live out in the boonies, there are farms everywhere out here, and houses. For heavens sake, a young bull would get his few cows bred. He does not show them or anything.
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  #64  
Old 07/15/10, 06:24 AM
 
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Cindy, you have been given some very good advice here - and some absolute garbage - but I think you have the brains to work out which is which. Mistletoads links are pretty much the same as what goes in this country and I rather thought that although there would be subtle differances, the laws would be basically the same and they are.

While I fully understand that you don't want to get off-side with neighbours, this particular one is knowingly and deliberately keeping a bull that he knows he cannot contain and is putting the onus of responsibility on to you and it follows that his attitude encompasses every farmer in the neighbourhood. That is not on under any circumstances and even less so when your fencing is up to par for the type of stock you run.

For those of you whom disagree with that and think this chap should be able to run his bull willy-nilly, think again. People fence to the stock they are keeping. If I want to run bulls I don't fence with chicken wire. If I want to run deer I don't fence with sheep fences, if I want to run sheep I don't fence with cattle fencing. If I want to keep mice I put them in a mouse cage not a dog run. Get real.

Cindy, I agree with those that advise getting your cow aborted. No way in the world would I breed a Jersey to a Charolias, they are pigs of things within their own breed, they just become bigger pigs when cross bred. Please, don't take the risk. It has nothing to do with the size of the bull, if he only weighed 1,000lbs I would say the same thing. It's the genetics of the breed that will dictate calf size, not the size of the bull.

And please also don't even consider shooting him. As somebody earlier said, you could well find yourself in a court of law. If he appears on your property again ring Animal Control and have him impounded. It will cost your neighbour to get him back plus trucking fees etc. and he may then take a bit more notice of his fencing and where and what his bull is up to.

I am so pleased that I have good neighbours.

Cheers,
Ronnie

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  #65  
Old 07/15/10, 06:44 AM
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Why on earth would the neighbor keep such a bull anyway? Can someone answer that question for me. If you know your fences can`t stop him, and you need to use a gun shooting in the air to turn him. Why??? I don`t care how good a bull he is, if I couldn`t keep him in I wouldn`t have him. And if he gotout and hurt my neighbor or her cow he would be down the road fast, hello Oscar Mayer. You get good money for heavy bulls, and if he has kept him around long enough to get that big, he has got his moneys worth out of him. I may have miss spoke when I said shoot him, but if he can`t be stopped, call the sherrif and let him shoot him. I know you will end up in court, but sometime you have to do something like that to straighten things out. You have asked him to keep him locked up and he either can`t or won`t, so you have rights as a American citizen to be safe from a huge animal. Hope this works out for you, you need to feel safe on your own place.>Thanks Marc

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  #66  
Old 07/15/10, 07:34 AM
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If the man can't control/restrain his animal, then he shouldn't own it...He's aware that his fencing isn't sufficient to keep his animal on his land...He's liable for any damages as a result

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  #67  
Old 07/15/10, 08:04 AM
 
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around here, if a bull becomes a problem the owner usually has the stones to put it down himself.
I think this argument is interesting. The ranchers out west think it's the OP's respnsibility, the farmers further east think it's the neighbor's. I think there's an understanding among neighbors wherever you happen to be, and the OP is clearly not in an open range situation, so the responsibility here is the neighbor's. In OK or KS or somewhere, it would fall on the owner of the cow.
You don't want to start a feud, but you have to stand up for your security. Be calm about it and call the sheriff. If the bull comes back have him come out and put it down.

And BTW, someone mentioned cougars and wolves-around here, you have the right to put down a dog or a bull if it's on your property, but if you shoot a wolf that killed a calf, you're on the hook for big fines, maybe jail time. It's messed up.

good luck with the neighbor

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  #68  
Old 07/15/10, 08:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by postroad View Post
So the acreage owner is responsible for what happens on both sides of the fence?
No, I didn't say that. It certainly isn't their fault that the bull came through the fence. But you must realize, that the guy that owns the bull, didn't come out and put him through the fence either, and most likely isn't real happy that he went through the fence. Cow's are cows and bull's are bulls. And if it were me in this situation, that bull would be going back out with my cows, I can't afford to have dry cows just because my neighbor is in a panic. I'd definitely be sorry that he got out, I've actually been in a similar situation, but I also understand that having a cow in heat on the other side of a fence from a bull is like putting a chocolate cake in front of a bunch of kids and expecting them not to touch it.
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  #69  
Old 07/15/10, 08:59 AM
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So the acreage owner is responsible for what happens on both sides of the fence?
On the contrary! But when people get into livestock areas, they need to understand the nature of livestock. And as much as we might wish that they'd see those fences and say, "Huh... I guess I'm not supposed to go over there." that just doesn't happen.
Ranchers (or livestock farmers) need to make an effort to keep their livestock contained (tight fences, no fence crawlers, etc.) but beyond that, you just hope for the best.

However, since we've now found out (three pages into the conversation!) that this bull is a known fence crawler she has a legal standing against the neighbor.
When he was just a run-of-the-mill bull who followed hormones, she didn't.



It has nothing to do with who is more important than whom. It's just understanding the nature of livestock. And large groups of livestock are a completely different set of challenges than a couple of heifers.

Quote:
Among most of us ranchers/farmers, who make a living raising Livestock, there isn't a lot of respect for acreage owners, this thread pretty much covers the reasons why......
Unfortunately, the same is true out here in the Plains states, too.

The why, for those who have missed it, is because small acreage owners generally don't understand the nature of livestock. They understand the nature of a few head but not an actual herd. And most livestock are herd animals. Ie, the dynamics of the group, as well as the nature of the animals, are completely different when you have herds rather than a few.

Statutes and rules and such are all fine and dandy (and why the difference between a known fence crawler or bad fences is stipulated, afterall!) but if you know anything about cattle, you know that if you don't want your heifers bred, you keep them well away from anywhere the neighbors might have bulls.
Bulls don't read statutes.
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  #70  
Old 07/15/10, 09:06 AM
 
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Now, all the info comes out. Before it was a bull that got out because the neighbor's cow was in heat, ONCE. Now we find out the details, that the owner obviously has been down the road with this bull before, that the bull by the sounds of it, has lost his respect of any fence. Now in this case, as the owner, that bull would be gone. In fact most likely that bull would have been gone when I first realized he would not respect an electric.

As far as me expecting that it is not the owners responsibility to fence that bull in, but the neighbor's to fence him out, I am not saying that at all. It should be a mutual responsibility. If the owner has a good solid fence, there is nothing wrong with the neighbor adding a hot wire to it for added security.

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  #71  
Old 07/15/10, 09:16 AM
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So basicaly the large land owner is responsible to fence "in" to the minimum required by law and the acreage owner must fence "out" to cover the insuficiencies?

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  #72  
Old 07/15/10, 09:21 AM
 
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Originally Posted by ErinP View Post
On the contrary! But when people get into livestock areas, they need to understand the nature of livestock. And as much as we might wish that they'd see those fences and say, "Huh... I guess I'm not supposed to go over there." that just doesn't happen.
Ranchers (or livestock farmers) need to make an effort to keep their livestock contained (tight fences, no fence crawlers, etc.) but beyond that, you just hope for the best.

However, since we've now found out (three pages into the conversation!) that this bull is a known fence crawler she has a legal standing against the neighbor.
When he was just a run-of-the-mill bull who followed hormones, she didn't.



It has nothing to do with who is more important than whom. It's just understanding the nature of livestock. And large groups of livestock are a completely different set of challenges than a couple of heifers.


Unfortunately, the same is true out here in the Plains states, too.

The why, for those who have missed it, is because small acreage owners generally don't understand the nature of livestock. They understand the nature of a few head but not an actual herd. And most livestock are herd animals. Ie, the dynamics of the group, as well as the nature of the animals, are completely different when you have herds rather than a few.

Statutes and rules and such are all fine and dandy (and why the difference between a known fence crawler or bad fences is stipulated, afterall!) but if you know anything about cattle, you know that if you don't want your heifers bred, you keep them well away from anywhere the neighbors might have bulls.
Bulls don't read statutes.

Thank you for articulating what I was trying to say......
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  #73  
Old 07/15/10, 09:32 AM
 
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So basicaly the large land owner is responsible to fence "in" to the minimum required by law and the acreage owner must fence "out" to cover the insuficiencies?
It works both ways, any landowner is required to fence to the minimum standard, after that they have a couple options, either sue or have a fight every time there is a problem, get used to the idea that there will be some problems or add to the fencing situation. I don't want your Jersey bull (for example) breeding my beef cows any more than you want that big Char bull breeding your Jersey or Dexter cows.

As a rancher, I don't want my animals out, and I will do what I can to ensure that they stay where they are put, within reason, but I'm not going to build an expensive buffalo fence on the chance that I might have the odd cow/bull crawl my fence. However, if I have an animal that won't stay in, then they don't last long around here, they get hauled to the sale barn, or eaten. I have enough work to keep me busy, without having to constantly be running around putting animals back in their fences.

But as ErinP says, I know enough that I don't go putting a bunch of open cow/heifers next to a pasture with bulls in it without expecting to have some problems.REGARDLESS of the actual laws, I'd certainly be putting an electric fence up in that case, or be finding another place to put my cows. The owner of the bulls has as much right to have his bulls on any given piece of his land as I do to have my cows on any piece of my land. But by putting those cows there, I am as much at fault if he has a bull crawl the fence as he is.
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Last edited by randiliana; 07/15/10 at 09:39 AM.
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  #74  
Old 07/15/10, 09:39 AM
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So having lush green grass on my side of the fence would also absolve my neighbors cattle for following their instincts and busting through to my property?

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  #75  
Old 07/15/10, 09:46 AM
 
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So having lush green grass on my side of the fence would also absolve my neighbors cattle for following their instincts and busting through to my property?
Well, it would absolve the cattle, but not the neighbor. I mean, you can't really expect a starving animal not to try and save themselves. There are good neighbors and bad ones.

If you have a neighbor who always has cattle out, (and it doesn't matter whether you're an acreage owner or a rancher) then you take the necessary steps. But if it is a neighbor who keeps his fences up and usually doesn't have cattle out, then you need to try and work with them. Build your fence better when he has a bull out, move your cows away from a communal fence, whatever you can (within reason) to help keep a problem from happening.
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  #76  
Old 07/15/10, 09:49 AM
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So basicaly the large land owner is responsible to fence "in" to the minimum required by law and the acreage owner must fence "out" to cover the insuficiencies?
No, if the large land owner has cattle he wants to keep from his neighbors' bulls, he'll do the exact same thing.

The difference is, HE expects it to be that way. The acreage owner doesn't.


Around here, it's common to call the neighbors when you're about the take bulls out, if you're going to be up against a fence where they have heifers. (Cows, will get a warning sometimes too, but almost always heifers will).
Not that you're going to do anything different, necessarily, when you put them out. Just a courtesy to let your neighbor know that he might want to move his heifers. Or not.
His call.
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  #77  
Old 07/15/10, 09:54 AM
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I'm in the interesting position of being both a small acreage owner and well as a large-acreage operator. We run cows for an investor on his land. But live on our little forty acres.

Our pasture is surrounded on three sides by the neighbor's 1.5 section pasture. His fences are notorious for being loose. Ideally, he should fix half of the fence between he and us, but we just keep it up. Why? Does that mean he's more important than us?

No, it just means it's far more important to us that the fences are tight than it is to him. Annoying, sure. But if I truly care about what happens to my heifers (as well as my grass), that's what I'll do to keep his cattle out.

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  #78  
Old 07/15/10, 10:27 AM
 
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If not suggested yet, you might want to consider high-tension woven wire instead of barbwire. Supposed to be stronger. I'd run 2 strands of barb wire on top, AND a stand-off Hot wire on the bull side of the fence...

Check your local laws (some states are fence out rather than fence in) but around here it is your neighbor's responsibility to keep his Bull on his property, and he owe's you for any expenses incurred because of his failing to do this. This includes vet bills and cost for repairing fences.

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  #79  
Old 07/15/10, 10:30 AM
 
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Simple. Go to the your local court house and ask to see if they have on file the fencing regulations for your state. Then call your township chairman and report to him what happend. Then also make a report with the sheriff's office. This way you are covered. Also as in many states since he is not keeping up his half of the fence, then by going through the township you should beable to have them get it fixed and have him billed on his taxes. Many states that have or had a dairy industry has very strict regs about bulls on pasture. This was due to yrs ago many was would about gentics and such before AI.


Also get some slugs for you shotgun. If by chance you ever need to protect yourself, they will be what you need instead of the 22. That is what I ment in my other post. I did not mean to shoot the bull for no other reason only in self defence.

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Old 07/15/10, 10:37 AM
 
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Check your local laws (some states are fence out rather than fence in) but around here it is your neighbor's responsibility to keep his Bull on his property, and he owe's you for any expenses incurred because of his failing to do this. This includes vet bills and cost for repairing fences.
Good level headed common sense advice.

OP has or has access to a computer. Research the Livestock Laws for Kentucky.

Fence laws and Livestock laws are entirely different, they are here in Oklahoma.
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  #81  
Old 07/15/10, 10:49 AM
 
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Everyone should keep in mind that we are only getting one side of the story.

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  #82  
Old 07/15/10, 11:05 AM
 
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Fence laws and Livestock laws are entirely different, they are here in Oklahoma.
Good point - seems I missed an important section earlier:

259.210 Cattle not to run at large
http://law.justia.com/kentucky/codes/259-00/210.html

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  #83  
Old 07/15/10, 12:29 PM
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I have to say, If a bull ends up on my land - there would only be one side to the story - he is on my land, you know? Period.

Obviously, her heifer didn't go through her fence over the bull on the other man's land - she isn't posting saying, "This guy's bull called my heifer over, she tore my fence down, he had to drive her back with a gun, and just who does this guy think he is?" Etc, etc.

It would be like asking whether we'd heard the theif's side who broke into your house and stole your TV. If the bull wasn't in her yard, she wouldn't be asking the questions here that she has.

There is no excuse for not keeping dangerous animals locked up. A 2,500lb is a dangerous animal. I know accidents happen and animals find ways out - but then when that occurs, we fix the situation, not tell the people we are not going to do anything about it.

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Old 07/15/10, 12:45 PM
 
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Good point - seems I missed an important section earlier:

259.210 Cattle not to run at large
http://law.justia.com/kentucky/codes/259-00/210.html

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This is more applicable in the OP's situation.
http://law.justia.com/kentucky/codes/259-00/160.html
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  #85  
Old 07/15/10, 01:02 PM
 
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I

It would be like asking whether we'd heard the theif's side who broke into your house and stole your TV. If the bull wasn't in her yard, she wouldn't be asking the questions here that she has.

.

I don't know your whole story either. Maybe the "thief" is really your ex , his name is in the lease, he has the keys, pays the rent, and it's his TV. We don't know because we only have your side of the story.
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  #86  
Old 07/15/10, 01:34 PM
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deineria, I don't know how you believe that the owner of the bull is not doing anything. I got the impression, he's on his own land and hasn't reoffended.

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Old 07/15/10, 05:14 PM
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Because I have called him every single morning to make sure the bull is in his pen. He has argued and argued with me and hung up on me several times, saying he is going to turn him back out. I said no. He can leave him down at the bottom in the lot and bull pen. His cows can get bred down there. He only has 33 acres, mostly woods and a dozen cows. He is not a large herd type rancher. I have 12 acres up here, all pasture. He keeps saying he's been here since 1959 and all that. I don't care. I am living in fear up here. We have been here 15 years.

He does not have bull proof fences, period. And he has said this is all my fault, that is his side of the story. He has never said once he was sorry, or came to fix his side of the fence. He said he can't talk to someone who doesn't understand cows. Well, we are only 10 miles from town, pretty big town, and our road is very, very busy. It is one of the main roads out of town. He is putting everyone in danger by letting that over size 6 year old Char bull out in the pasture with 4 strands of barbed wire. His front fence is right next to the road. That bull is a very large dangerous animal. What is not to understand?

And he has had another huge bull, years ago, bust though our fence 4 or 5 times. A Simmental. Massive, massive thing. I came up on him suddenly on the back side of the barn we used to have down there. We did not do anything then. We should have. We had AI'd our Guernsey several times by then, and he kept coming up. I told him this time I am not putting up with it. If I see the bull out in my pasture I will call the state police. And protect my sweet milk cow, steer and ponies. Crap, what am I supposed to do? I did not mention it because this thread was about the shot, what shot, will it hurt her, what do I do, etc.

Do any of you big ranchers let your 2000 lb + bulls run in pasture next to a busy road? How many people each year get killed when they hit them? Can your fences really keep them in? We stop and help when cows are out around here, regular sized cows. Farmers who have bulls this size keep them in hot wire enclosures and bull pens. Period. I have never seen a bull this size out to pasture. A regular sized bull under 3 can get the job done. I am still having panic attacks. I have checked on my 2 cows every few minutes for days.

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  #88  
Old 07/15/10, 05:32 PM
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Erin, the barbed wire fence on the neighbor's side was tight, very very tight, still shiny, tall, hooked to cedar trees, and the bull walked through it like it was nothing. He wasn't even bleeding. The barbed wire was stretched to the breaking point, twice a long as it should be.

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Old 07/15/10, 05:50 PM
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Location: Alberta, Canada (Not the USA!)
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Originally Posted by Cindy in KY View Post
Because I have called him every single morning to make sure the bull is in his pen. He has argued and argued with me and hung up on me several times, saying he is going to turn him back out. I said no. He can leave him down at the bottom in the lot and bull pen. His cows can get bred down there. He only has 33 acres, mostly woods and a dozen cows. He is not a large herd type rancher. I have 12 acres up here, all pasture. He keeps saying he's been here since 1959 and all that. I don't care. I am living in fear up here. We have been here 15 years.

He does not have bull proof fences, period. And he has said this is all my fault, that is his side of the story. He has never said once he was sorry, or came to fix his side of the fence. He said he can't talk to someone who doesn't understand cows. Well, we are only 10 miles from town, pretty big town, and our road is very, very busy. It is one of the main roads out of town. He is putting everyone in danger by letting that over size 6 year old Char bull out in the pasture with 4 strands of barbed wire. His front fence is right next to the road. That bull is a very large dangerous animal. What is not to understand?

And he has had another huge bull, years ago, bust though our fence 4 or 5 times. A Simmental. Massive, massive thing. I came up on him suddenly on the back side of the barn we used to have down there. We did not do anything then. We should have. We had AI'd our Guernsey several times by then, and he kept coming up. I told him this time I am not putting up with it. If I see the bull out in my pasture I will call the state police. And protect my sweet milk cow, steer and ponies. Crap, what am I supposed to do? I did not mention it because this thread was about the shot, what shot, will it hurt her, what do I do, etc.

Do any of you big ranchers let your 2000 lb + bulls run in pasture next to a busy road? How many people each year get killed when they hit them? Can your fences really keep them in? We stop and help when cows are out around here, regular sized cows. Farmers who have bulls this size keep them in hot wire enclosures and bull pens. Period. I have never seen a bull this size out to pasture. A regular sized bull under 3 can get the job done. I am still having panic attacks. I have checked on my 2 cows every few minutes for days.
For the last time, Cindy, get the law enforcement involved in this, be it the Sheriff or the SPCA!! There's only so much you can do and only so much you can say to stop this guy's bull from breaking out again.

I have been reading this thread from the beginning and all the advice and the stories have been kinda muddled until the last couple pages. Initially I thought that 1) the char bull was just a bull that's following his hormones and 2) the neighbor's been keeping his bulls since then. Now that the facts are more clearer, it appears that you have had more problems with this neighbor of yours than initially thought.

Though I'm not one to be taking sides, and I wasn't going to give any advice until the facts were a bit more clearer (and a lot of the BS had been cleared up...thanks to Randi and Erin :-) ), but I can see now that it's not acreage owner's fault in this case. This guy is deliberately causing chaos for you, Cindy, than initially thought. Why indeed is he keeping a bull around that he knows does not respect any kind of fence or barn wall? Either he's really stupid and lazy, or a real schitzen disturber.

Cindy, if you cannot get a hot enough e-fence for your pastures, or cannot possibly contain your heifer behind a 8' tall bomb-proof concrete-walled barn or corral (which is pretty much what it'll take to protect your heifer from that bull), then call the police. That's what they're there for, to enforce the law when the state citizens can't themselves! File a law suit; make a case to get his bull impounded; whatever you can to make him stop for a heck of a lot longer than just for a few years. Letting yourself get in panic attacks all the time will get you nowheres quick.
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Old 07/15/10, 07:43 PM
 
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Cindy, I agree with what Karin said to you. If this bull has no respect for fences, then something needs to be done about him. The owner should have done it long before now.

Quote:
Do any of you big ranchers let your 2000 lb + bulls run in pasture next to a busy road? How many people each year get killed when they hit them? Can your fences really keep them in? We stop and help when cows are out around here, regular sized cows. Farmers who have bulls this size keep them in hot wire enclosures and bull pens. Period. I have never seen a bull this size out to pasture. A regular sized bull under 3 can get the job done. I am still having panic attacks. I have checked on my 2 cows every few minutes for days.
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It is not at all uncommon for ranchers to run 5+ year old bulls, bulls are a big expense to buy, so we like to keep them for as long as we can. With the profit margins on calves right now we can't afford to be replacing bulls every year or two.

Right now we have 5 bulls, 2 of them are big mature bulls. A 6 year old Hereford and a 5 year old Black Angus, as well as 2 4 year old Angus bulls and one yearling. The big Hereford is running up in our pasture along our Trans-Canada highway, the main highway throughout Canada. I am not at all concerned about him getting out. The fence is a 4 wire barbed wire fence, with no hot-wire. I'm sure that the occasional bull gets hit along highways, but I can't remember the last time I ever heard about one. Cows, every now and then, and calves, but no bulls.

I have no intention of selling either one of these bulls right now, they both respect people and fences (as much as any bull ever does). Besides to replace one will cost us between $2000 and $3000, and I've got better things to do with that money than to replace a perfectly good bull. In about a week they will all be coming home from breeding, and they will spend the next 10 months hanging out with each other. And then we will start all over again, with the same bulls, unless one of them starts being a problem.
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