twins, but cow didnt clean out?

linn · #21 07/08/10, 10:05 AM

It may not now be recommended, but in a few years, the advise will probably change, just like it has now. In early years, women gave birth at home, with the husband present. Then it was advised that women give birth in the hospital, in a delivery room, with only the medical staff present. Now the pendelum has swung back to going through labor and giving birth in the same room, with family members present. What may be considered the norm now will change or swing back to what was done in the past.
For our herd, we have had better results when DH manually cleaned the cow instead of leaving the retained placenta to putrefy and send infection throughout the cow's system. I am not suggesting that eveyone clean their own cows. Obviously, it takes some experience and know how before attempting to clean a cow or deliver a calf. There are pros and cons with this as with every other issue or situation. Everyone won't agree on the same action or advice. That is what is great about these types of discussions, one is able to pick and choose the most helpful info.

shagerman · #22 07/08/10, 01:38 PM

absolutely true, and i want to thank everyone for exchanging advise, it really made me think ,, and with twins. which we had never had before.. scared the bee geebees out of me, i was really worring myself over pretty much nothing.{ but to me it was everything.} and to me the stakes were too high against me.. so it seemed. i guess being worried, puts you in this mode. i have delivered calfs. without problems, then again, we have had problems, its all a learning experiance to me, and we had my jersey bred AI yesterday, just wait till she births, ill be all stirred up again.

ozark_jewels · #23 07/08/10, 04:43 PM

In the middle of beef and dairy country here so most vets are cattle vets. They reccomend cleaning manually, only after all other methods have been tried and then only after its been at least a week, as the placenta needs to start sloughing off the uterine wall, so that the uterus is not harmed. Then antibiotics should be used to help prevent scarring from an infection. If you manually clean or leave it to all rot out, a certain number of these cows will have trouble breeding back on time and some never will.
Manual cleaning is rarely needed if steps are taken at the first sign of a retained placenta.
Exactly, retained placentas do happen and they are not normal, so I take steps at the first sign of a problem.

onthespot · #24 07/08/10, 08:16 PM

I'm not a cattle person, but was just wondering to myself if she might have eaten the first one.

DJ in WA · #25 07/08/10, 11:59 PM

You just need to find a vet that will do what you tell them to do.

shagerman · #26 07/09/10, 08:50 AM

absolutely true, and i want to thank everyone for exchanging advise, it really made me think ,, and with twins. which we had never had before.. scared the bee gee bees out of me, i was really worrying myself over pretty much nothing.{ but to me it was everything.} and to me the stakes were too high against me.. so it seemed. i guess being worried, puts you in this mode. i have delivered calf's. without problems, then again, we have had problems, its all a learning experience to me, and we had my jersey bred AI yesterday, just wait till she births, ill be all stirred up again.

kclementsdvm · #27 07/10/10, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJ in WA

You just need to find a vet that will do what you tell them to do.

Is that what you really want? My clients pay me to do what is best for their animals, based on my years of training and clinical experience. Sometimes it is what they want me to do, and sometimes it isn't.

What I recommend to my clients is that a retained placenta be carefully monitored but given time to come out on its own. Manually removing it can cause more problems than leaving it alone, as you can actually damage the lining of the uterus, making her more prone to infection and less likely to breed back easily. It is also very possible to tear the placenta during removal and accidentally leave pieces inside her, which will have a harder time coming loose.

As long as the cow is eating well, acting normally, and doesn't have a fever, no medical treatment is necessary. But if that changes, antibiotics and possibly anti-inflammatories are warranted. I will typically have them tie the placenta up as best they can, both to keep weight on it (use gravity on your behalf) and to keep it up so that the cow can't step on it and rip it. Everytime the owner goes by the cow, gentle traction on the placenta is fine. This can encourage it to come loose more quickly.

tinknal · #28 07/10/10, 03:03 PM

Cows often eat the placenta before you get a chance to ever see it. I have also seen coyotes who become "placenta specialists" Scouring pastures for afterbirth and never bothering the calves. Can be a great gig for the 'yote if the farmer catches on that it isn't bothering calves.

ozark_jewels · #29 07/10/10, 04:21 PM

I appreciate a knowledgeable vet to tell me what they think and offer advice. I also appreciate a vet that will listen to my ideas as well, especially about my stock that I know well. There needs to be a good balance. Thankfully I have found such a vet here. Though we moved over an hour away from her, I still have her do all the dairy calls, rather than get the vet who is only 15 minutes away. He is a jerk.

linn · #30 07/10/10, 08:56 PM

We know our animals and have been monitoring the situation before we even call the vet. The vet sees the animal, maybe once and makes a diagnosis. What we really want is a vet that will listen to what we have to say and not turn us off like we don't know anything. A vet who listens to what the owner has to say about the animal will be more likely to make a correct diagnosis.

shagerman · #31 07/11/10, 09:54 AM

kclementsdvm .. what i want is what is best for my animals.no matter the cost when they are sick. or having twins. or just diarrhea, i have said that a few times already. i also have said this has not happened to me before and i was really worried, i was told not to worry about it, and she came out with a infection. i had the vet out. she had a shot and some stuff he put in her, to clear the infection, which if he had came out when i noticed things going on i believe i could have saved a step.

randiliana · #32 07/11/10, 11:53 AM

Yeah, you need a vet who listens to what the owner says, but it is also good for the owner to LISTEN to what the vet has to say too. Obviously the owner needs to have some common sense, to know what/when to question, but it sure wouldn't hurt if he would actually ask the vet why he is doing something if the owner doesn't agree with it. After all, the vet did go to school for a # of years to learn stuff that most owners have never done.

ozark_jewels · #33 07/11/10, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randiliana

After all, the vet did go to school for a # of years to learn stuff that most owners have never done.

Absolutely. Unfortunately, no school can teach common sense. As a friend puts it, "common sense is just not so common".

linn · #34 07/11/10, 12:34 PM

I agree. Most farmers have been around livestock for years, in our case over sixty, because DH and I were both raised on the farm. With normal conditions most farmers are able to deal with the situation. We had the vet out form my Dexter not long after we bought her. You could tell that he was mentally scratching his head about her condition, when the vet tech said, "I think she is constipated," which was true. We had the vet out twice for this heifer and spent just about the purchase price. We finally used the shotgun approach ourselves and the heifer got better. So much for years of schooling.