Any Anthropologist can tell you this is a load of crock. The primates that man evolved from did not begin to grow large brains until they started eating large amounts of meat and fat. Meat and animal fat were essential in turning us from clever apes into intelligent human beings.

And that is just it - the Holstein and Jersey are milk producers, not meat producers. They are lighter boned, lighter muscled and for a very good reason. Instead of converting all that food into bone mass and muscle, they are converting it into milk. If those wanting meat are happy to take a smaller carcas in a short time frame, there is nothing wrong with the Jersey, Jersey/Friesian or Jersey/Angus but those wanting heaps of meat in the same time frame are better sticking with the beef breeds.

I would argue the point about Holsteins doing poorly without grain but in a convoluted sense. Most of NZ dairy herds are Friesian but in the last 30 years greed for higher production = higher returns took over and nobody looked past the end of their own noses as to the longer term outcome was going to be. They bred up to the huge American Holstein and got their milk yeilds but at an equally huge cost. A big cow needs more to eat to support herself and produce milk, a big cow causes big damage in pasture so even less to eat. Farmers started to find they were having to buy in feed to support these cows so the extra profit was going down the drain. They also found that up to 30% of their herd was returning empty, the price paid for breeding "up". There is now a slow trickle back to the British Holstein, or indeed, any smaller Holstein, and there are more Jersey herds around now than there has been in a long while.

So yes, if you want a Holstein to get beef on (or milk well) you probably will have to feed it grain, not because it's a Holstein but because of it's size for the type of animal it is - a milk producer.

Cheers,
Ronnie

you are right ronney, but so many people here raise holstein steers. You gotta do something with all those bull calves from the mega-dairy. dairy steers sure supply us with alot of 'store-burger'.

mudder, I would be interested to here your results when you butcher your 2 beef experiments. There is a guy near here, an old man who raises angus on straight corn and hay. yes they are ready to butcher at 1200# at 18 months, but they look like shiny black pigs on stick legs. I cant imagine the fat content of the meat.

Man was meant to eat meat. evolution is a proven load of crap, and the Bible clearly states, in Genesis 9:3 "I have given the animals to you for food, just as I have given you grain and vegetables."

As some of you may know I bought a 17 month old Jersey/Holstein cross heifer that supposedly barren. I had intended to process her for the freezer. She calved back in November. I was running her with the beef cattle on forage (fescue grass and clover) alone. As Winter approached I was unsure how she would fair through the cold months with a nursing calf as she was not raised on forage only. I though that I may have to tie a cinder block around her neck to keep her from blowing out of the pasture (joking). Yesterday I had the camera with me as I made a major shift in the herds location and I had a chance to get a photo of her. I was pleasantly surprised at her condition as we emerge from Winter. Obviously a dairy breed can be grown out on forage alone. Here she is still in her Winter coat. PS...the grass is not this green, the phone camera exaggerates!
http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i2...00301-1406.jpg

Aggman, I love how the calves lined up so nicely for the photo. :-)

Soooo, if someone DOESN'T agree with you that "feedlot, mass produced grain and by product feed only beef" is disgusting, we're not "thinking"? Arrogance is apparently the first requirement to be a vegan/vegetarian. And you've bought into it strongly. I'll put my education, experience, and anything else up against yours any day and say, quite proudly, that we support the beef industry. I've been to feedlots and slaughter houses. Have you? Are there bad ones? Probably. But as the industry goes, you will NOT find me feeing ashamed of supporting the beef production system as it works today.

And again you infer that if we don't agree with your view, there's something wrong with us. I raise beef, but I buy my family's beef in the supermarket, just like 90% of the rest of the beef consuming public here in the US.

Dogs are omni, just like humans. They'll eat whatever they can get to stay alive. And this has nothing to do with beef.

ROTFLMAO! "people standing against an idea they do not "like" and disregarding factual matters...." Boy that describes you to a T. And when called on it, you say it's a "religious" thing.

I guess you will have to adjust your thinking? If you're so concerned about the animal's health and well being, how do you justify your dairy products. You know, where they "rip the babies from their momma's teat, screaming" to provide YOU with the milk and cheese that you relish?

Yes, it'll fall on deaf ears. I doubt that's what's stopping you. You might also get educuated, like the soy information posted here. Did you bother to read it?

You're sooo kind to "support" us feeding our cows whatever we want. When I go out later and feed the cows, I'll feel much better because of your consent. :boring:

Not a PETA supporter? How about HSUS, PCRM, and the rest of the animal rights kooks?

In my experience, the real problem that high milking cows have is in breeding back. If this one produces a good calf year after year on grass alone, you've probably got a keeper. But I wouldn't hold my breath. She really has a small udder for her breeding. How did her calf wean?

I'm not at all convinced that how an animal is raised is especially important. It's the bacteria in their gut that matters. Microbes that digests forage are different from microbes that digest grain. When taken from a grain diet to grass or vice versa, the animal needs time to get their guts right.

FEF

This cow is in with a beef herd and her 3/4 Jersey calf is not weaned. It is doing fine however and is eating grass the same as the beef calves its age. Her milk production has adjusted to the calf's consumption which is low IMO. I feel certain she is already bred back. I feel it is very important as to how an animal is raised. Mine are well cared for while they are on my place.

Oh brother........... :rolleyes:

FEF, that heifer is exactly what I would expect from a grass fed animal rearing a calf that is just coming out of winter - and that includes her udder which is indicative of nothing. As Agman has explained, she hasn't been milked other than feeding her calf and she will have adjusted her production to suit. I completely grass feed my cows and have had first calvers come in with udders like that and give 12 litres in their first season, 15 litres in their second and 18 litres from there on, all Jerseys.

Agman, as you have probably deduced, I think she's looking pretty good for having fed a calf over winter and particularly if you suspect she is back in calf. Obviously she is not going into the freezer:) And once again, in my opinion, you have proved that grass fed works.

Cheers,
Ronnie