Tinknal, most normal people would read this and conclude that you do not care about animal welfare. We can't raise the animal welfare issue without people claiming we're with PETA or laying on guilt trips. Apparently you think it is inappropriate to ever question how we treat animals.

Yes, one does not have to feed grain like a feedlot, but most cattle are fed grain that way, which is why I presented the picture of the most common practice. If one is comparing grass fed vs grain fed, they ought to know the most common way of feeding grain.

How silly of me. I thought we were responding to the OP. not Cargil...... :shrug:

I' m not sure that breed has much to do with it. We raise and sell and eat ourselves, Angus, Simmental and AngusxSimmental crosses on grass. They are delicious. And we have been selling them long enough to get repeat customer's so they must like grass-fed too.

We used to raise them on grain. Too expensive to do it that way for us. Grass-fed beef should be slow cooked. And eaten more rare than grainfed. But that suits us and apparently lots of others. We can't keep up with the demand.

We also raise and sell grass-fed poultry. Again, can't keep up with the demand. I need to grow twice as much this year as last year. But last year was my second year and I was trying out different breeds of chicken. Now, I did find the Cornish x to be better for that than the ones I raised the year before.
But with beef, we haven't found any difference in the breeds for taste. We have one guy here who milks grass-fed Jerseys and sells the Jersey steers for grass-fed beef. His custome'rs seem to like them.:rolleyes:

You are right...a lot has to do with the cooking process. It should be seared first and eaten medium rare to rare.

Some people like to cook the beef out of their steaks....and then smother it with ketchup or some other condiment to smother the yuckiness and moisten it back up. Those people need to go buy the feedlot beef or better yet why waste the money there....buy pork and kill it the same way!

The organic store in this area milks grass-fed jersys also. they gie 2 pounds of organic oats per cow per day. and they raise all the steers and sell in their little store. they have an enormous customer base, but it all started with the milk I am sure.

Pretty idiotic post, even for you. As far as I'm concerned a little marinating (good grain fed beef mind you), and I'm good to go. I'll go as far as a challenge. I'll eat grain fed beef and you eat grass fed beef......................... raw. Heck, I'll even let you cook your beef.

It's been interesting, though predictable, to watch this thread deteriorate.
As far as eating raw beef, I've been known to, with garlic and a little shoyu. Raw grain fed beef is disgusting - greasy and fatty. Raw naturally fed beef is clean and inoffensive.
I personally could care less what you choose to eat, go have a tub o lard for all I care. Really.
I do feel that if I have knowledge pertaining to health that it's my obligation to share it. Whether the information is put to use or not is not my business.

No fear here on eating mine raw as we kill our own and know it isn't contaminated. Have fun taking a chance on your feed lot beef though!

Once again, who is talking about feedlot beef? Do you always change the subject when you cannot counter an argument?

Oh wow! How mature of you.............. :rolleyes:

Is there an ignore button?

What is shoyu? Did you mean soya? I want to try your methods...I eat it raw with chopped garlic, pepper, onion salt and some lemon.......

I am sometimes amazed at how these threads go.... "My beef is better than your beef".... Yeah? Well my dad can beat up your dad!!!

The chevy/ford debate continues

yeah, makes me sorry I asked a question. Sorry to the innocents.

Yep. It's right up there with the 2nd amendment (guns) and gay marriage. Sheesh!
Well, here's one more opinion. Yes, opinion. Nobody has all the answers. I've had great grain fed beef, both store bought and privately purchased. I've had great grassfed beef, bought from local farmers. I've also had the most disgusting beef you'd ever wish you hadn't eaten, and yes, both grain and grassfed. I personally feel that slaughter and hanging
have alot to do with flavor and tenderness. A smaller processor that may let the carcass cool down a bit slower and hang it a bit longer can have a superior product to the more rapid industrial model of kill-pack-ship-sell. But, grassfed, to me, has a deeper, more complex flavor, than you're average grain fed animal. ( Think dry-aged steak versus wet-pack. a less moisture=more flavor thing. But don't try to cook it past medium rare.)
Having just recieved my first home grown grassfed (almost) beef back from the butcher, I find it moist, tender, and flavorful. Is there an advantage to grass over grain? It depends on what you like. I really hate venison. But like grassfed beef, goat, lamb, etc... It really is all a matter of personal taste and upbringing. Right up there with things like chili (I put it over spaghetti, and it better have cocoa in it.), and the coke/pepsi thing. Is it "cheaper" to raise on grass? My dexter cost me $1,076 from purchase to package, which was $4.10/lb. Not too cheap, but I know everything he ate, and that I'm going to eat. If you have the room and the time, I say try it on a small scale. Raise 2 steers, send them to the same butcher at the same time and find out. personally, I like just about any beef that's raised outside with pasture access, whether it's strickly grass, with a handful of grain now and then(like mine), or with free access to all the corn they want. Hey, I like grassfed, but I'm not a prude about it! Good beef is good beef! Karla

Sure. People who cannot debate in a mature manner use it all the time. :D

Well said!

For us we raise grain fed beef, for our table and the open market, Black Angus and black baldies. And what ends up on my plate is a grain fed aged 21 days black baldie heifer grained for 120 days. I am blessed with a lot of large game here in Montana just got to add that lol.

If you like grass-fed raise or buy that if you like grain fed raise or buy that! There is no right or wrong answer. I like both but I like grain fed better it is what is right for us.

Wow, I didn't see anyone tell anyone want to eat. Seems like something is eating them. LOL.

We had our first grassfed beef done last year, oh wow it was SOOO good. We had a wet year and tons of clover in our pasture. We just had a cow done that was almost grass fed, just a little grain. Once again, excellent, moist, and even the fat tastes great (clean tasting, no off flavor that fat can easily get, at least to me).

Well, I've been told to eat lard....... :D

I think you 'think' your feelings were hurt but it was actually your heart!
:banana02:

It is a matter of choice, for sure. Some people that are raising grass fed cattle want to convince the 90% of the US population that we should change. When they persist, their information turns to speeches and then sermons.

Let's review the argument for feeding a lower protein diet to cattle to lower the amount of animal fat present and help in the prevention of heart disease.

Fatty cuts of beef are better for you than beef tallow slathered in lard. Well trimmed corn fed beef is better for you than fatty cuts. Lean, grass fed beef is better for you than well trimmed beef. Venison is better for you than grass fed beef. Tofu is better for you than venison.

There are extremists at both end of this discussion. But don't go off criticizing my grain fed beef for health reasons until you are buying tofu by the case. It is just a question of degrees.

I've had both and I prefer my animals to have a bit of corn/oat mix for the last 6 weeks or so. Confined to a barn and small yard, with free choice hay and water. It is not inhumane.

This Island I live on is mostly cattle and hay farms. The fat cattle go to market, the farmers eat vension harvested from the fields. Cows represent too much income to be eaten by the family.

No, I just have a highly developed sense of humor and think some of you folks are a riot! :dance:

Great post,I am in agreement 100 percent.

Well, well, well, if Tofu is better for you than beef, I would rather live fewer years and enjoy what I eat, rather than eat Tofu. Yuk, Yuk, Yuk, Thanks Marc.

Its couldnt care less.

by saying i could care less your really saying that you could care less

by saying i couldnt care less it means you really cant care any more

but the price per pound on grass fed is more than grain fed its almost double around here

i had some grass fed beef but they took a long time to get big about 4 years for a 560lb hanging weight cow

when grain fed was about 16 months for a 720lb hanging weight cow

i liked both of them but the time involved in grass fed was a pain took way to long and alot of money in the good hay for them

when the grain fed got crap hay and all homegrown grain mixed here on the farm and also got corn silage

if your eating for your health dont eat beef

but other than that try both and see what you like better your local butcher will have both but just cause some one says its grass fed dont mean it really is any more people will tell you what you wanna hear or what they think you wanna hear to make a sale

Only if you cannot understand sarcasm.

Well bigmudder, your doing something wrong. Just prior to Christmas we homekilled a 2 year old Jersey, completely grass fed with supplementary hay during the winter, with a hanging weight of 260kgs. Given that Jerseys are slow to grow, this was a good result.

Whether somebody eats corn fed or grass fed will be entirely up to personal choice - and that will be based on what they are used to. I have never eaten corn fed beef and if my experience of eating commercial pork, which is all grain fed, is anything to go by, nor do I want to. Somebody once described American beef to me as eating mushy cardboard and that is exactly what commercial pork is like.

It's not an argument I'm going to get into as I've no experience with corn fed but as somebody earlier in the thread said, why throw money at your cattle in the shape of corn if you have plenty of good grass:rolleyes:

Read Agman's threads. Now there is a guy who has brilliant looking cattle and makes reasonable money from them and it's all done on grass. While not all of you can run cattle without supplementary feeding, look around you and use what is on your own doorstep, look outside the square.

Cheers,
Ronnie

wow bigmudder, 4 years for a 560# hook weight?
either that cow was a very small breed, had very crappy pasture and not enough water, or was sick. we have highland/angus/herefords, and pure highlands.
we are 100% grass fed. a couple weeks ago we took in a 3 year old 3/4 highland steer, and a 2 1/2 year old hereford/angus cow that miscarried her calf. both hung just shy of 800#.

about 3 months ago we took in a 7 year old pure highland cow that had something internal wrong with her guts. she stopped eating and lost an enormous amount of weight before we got her to the butcher (we tried to save her). she was a few meals short of bag o bones, and she still hung at almost 500#. we ended up getting around 275# of useable meat off her.

something was definetly wrong with your cow bigmudder, or it was a huge dexter?

http://hartkeisonline.com/2010/03/03...okbook-author/

Read that, It relates how grass fed fat is good for you.

Not according to this: http://www.westonaprice.org/Myths-Truths-About-Soy.html

Myth: Use of soy as a food dates back many thousands of years.

Truth: Soy was first used as a food during the late Chou dynasty (1134-246 BC), only after the Chinese learned to ferment soy beans to make foods like tempeh, natto and tamari.

Myth: Asians consume large amounts of soy foods.

Truth: Average consumption of soy foods in Japan and China is 10 grams (about 2 teaspoons) per day. Asians consume soy foods in small amounts as a condiment, and not as a replacement for animal foods.

Myth: Modern soy foods confer the same health benefits as traditionally fermented soy foods.

Truth: Most modern soy foods are not fermented to neutralize toxins in soybeans, and are processed in a way that denatures proteins and increases levels of carcinogens.

Myth: Soy foods provide complete protein.

Truth: Like all legumes, soy beans are deficient in sulfur-containing amino acids methionine and cystine. In addition, modern processing denatures fragile lysine.

Myth: Fermented soy foods can provide vitamin B12 in vegetarian diets.

Truth: The compound that resembles vitamin B12 in soy cannot be used by the human body; in fact, soy foods cause the body to require more B12

Myth: Soy formula is safe for infants.

Truth: Soy foods contain trypsin inhibitors that inhibit protein digestion and affect pancreatic function. In test animals, diets high in trypsin inhibitors led to stunted growth and pancreatic disorders. Soy foods increase the body's requirement for vitamin D, needed for strong bones and normal growth. Phytic acid in soy foods results in reduced bioavailabilty of iron and zinc which are required for the health and development of the brain and nervous system. Soy also lacks cholesterol, likewise essential for the development of the brain and nervous system. Megadoses of phytoestrogens in soy formula have been implicated in the current trend toward increasingly premature sexual development in girls and delayed or retarded sexual development in boys.

Myth: Soy foods can prevent osteoporosis.

Truth: Soy foods can cause deficiencies in calcium and vitamin D, both needed for healthy bones. Calcium from bone broths and vitamin D from seafood, lard and organ meats prevent osteoporosis in Asian countries—not soy foods.

Myth: Modern soy foods protect against many types of cancer.

Truth: A British government report concluded that there is little evidence that soy foods protect against breast cancer or any other forms of cancer. In fact, soy foods may result in an increased risk of cancer.

Myth: Soy foods protect against heart disease.

Truth: In some people, consumption of soy foods will lower cholesterol, but there is no evidence that lowering cholesterol with soy protein improves one's risk of having heart disease.

Myth: Soy estrogens (isoflavones) are good for you.

Truth: Soy isoflavones are phyto-endocrine disrupters. At dietary levels, they can prevent ovulation and stimulate the growth of cancer cells. Eating as little as 30 grams (about 4 tablespoons) of soy per day can result in hypothyroidism with symptoms of lethargy, constipation, weight gain and fatigue.

Myth: Soy foods are safe and beneficial for women to use in their postmenopausal years.

Truth: Soy foods can stimulate the growth of estrogen-dependent tumors and cause thyroid problems. Low thyroid function is associated with difficulties in menopause.

Myth: Phytoestrogens in soy foods can enhance mental ability.

Truth: A recent study found that women with the highest levels of estrogen in their blood had the lowest levels of cognitive function; In Japanese Americans tofu consumption in mid-life is associated with the occurrence of Alzheimer's disease in later life.

Myth: Soy isoflavones and soy protein isolate have GRAS (Generally Recognized as Safe) status.

Truth: Archer Daniels Midland (ADM) recently withdrew its application to the FDA for GRAS status for soy isoflavones following an outpouring of protest from the scientific community. The FDA never approved GRAS status for soy protein isolate because of concern regarding the presence of toxins and carcinogens in processed soy.

Myth: Soy foods are good for your sex life.

Truth: Numerous animal studies show that soy foods cause infertility in animals. Soy consumption enhances hair growth in middle-aged men, indicating lowered testosterone levels. Japanese housewives feed tofu to their husbands frequently when they want to reduce his virility.

Myth: Soy beans are good for the environment.

Truth: Most soy beans grown in the US are genetically engineered to allow farmers to use large amounts of herbicides.

Myth: Soy beans are good for developing nations.

Truth: In third world countries, soybeans replace traditional crops and transfer the value-added of processing from the local population to multinational corporations.

they were dairy breeds 2 holstins

so they dont get big fast any ways

pasture was good and hay was given 24-7 form of round bales winter was hard on them they lost some weight over the winters and it didnt help it was winter when i took them in and water was given all the time automatic waterer and 150gallon rubber maid tank heater ran all winter and then it had to be done with a hose every night and they never drank it all and there was 6 cows drinking it

beef breeds dont take as long there is a guy down the road with angus and thats all his are pure grass fed and there good size

there is a huge price difference in grain fed and grass fed the guy down the road sells grass fed beef for $4.50 a pound where there are guys selling grain fed beef for $2.00 a pound to $3.00 a pound

ill try to do a couple on grass this year and see what happens

Man, it really bothers me to have people try to say that the "healthy" part of grass fed beef is simply the lack of fat. That is not it at all. Taste is an opinion but the healthy aspects of the fat makeup in grass only animals is a proven thing. Moving to soy is much worse... like the Weston A. Price post shows.

Heck, I raise grass fed for the health of the land, animals, and meat and I'd love to use the extra fat for lard in cooking and such, it's actually good for you.

I find the extreme opposite views pretty entertaining to read. I'm a 14 year vegetarian. My boys are not, my husband is not. With research, I think it is fair to say any thinking person would be against feedlot, mass produced grain and by product feed only beef. It isn't good for you; it isn't humane for the cattle. I just feel that isn't an opinion. It is a fact, from all I can see.

I am sure you can get lots of varied opinions of grass fed is better tasting/healthier than mostly corn fed, but I bet most all CAN agree, if being honest, that either grass fed or corn fed with pasture access from a farm locally is significantly better than commercially raised feed lot processed beef, and it is certainly better for the cattle, as well. Of course, some people may not regard the animals' well being, and that is very sad. We get on doing a great many things by becoming detached, but that attitude lends little credit to those people - it is nothing to be proud of.

Dog weren't made to eat "dog food," but they get on okay and live, often, very long lives on the by products based diet they were never intended to eat, and people get on okay, often, eating a great many things we weren't intended to eat. Horses gain weight best on high quality hay only diets, but how many horses aren't filled with grain products on a daily basis (and the horses enjoy it, I know - lol)?

If the people touting grass fed ONLY beef are that concerned for their health, you'd think they would be vegan for their own health? Of course, there will be people that argue that in spite of the facts surrounding it (hey, I'm not a vegan either - I'm a milk, eggs and cheese fan). . .just because they do not "like" it. So much of these types of debate are based on people standing against an idea they do not "like" and disregarding factual matters or common sense matters to uphold the side they prefer.

This is a homesteading forum, and that makes me think the people here would/could at least agree that
locally raised, preferably home raised, animals and all food sources are best, and it makes me think you should consider your health and the animals' health worth something or why pursue the homesteading lifestyle?

I could get into the real reason massive amounts of corn being used in America is despicable to me, but it would fall on mostly deaf ears. lol - one must know when to not bother. The information is out there and very concrete for anyone to see.

I support feeding your cows anything you buy or grow locally or yourself. If some of that is corn, awesome. I feed my Jersey grain. She loves it. My horses get a bit, too. The goats love their grain. I opt for very little corn in the diets of the heifer and goats, and none for the horses.

BTW - I'm not a Peta supporter either. . .lol

well, mudder that explains it.
holsteins have been so 'up' bred for high milk production for so many years, as a general rule, holsteins don't thrive without grain. and if you live in a place with bad winters, as we do, holsteins on grass only suffer. We are deep in dairy country, and everyone has holsteins. we have a couple holsteins cross cows, and just this year obtained a couple holstein bull calves. compared to the beef breed cows, the holsteins crosses really suffer in the winter. the older one we are getting rid of after she calves this summer. the holstein steer we have is way smaller than the beef calves we have of the same age.
holsteins just do poorly without grain. I think if you tried a beef breed, even a total mutt beef steer, you will have much better luck than with holsteins

The human is an omnivore, it's in our genetics to eat meats as well as plant material...we need and thrive on protein from meat....Tofu as I already posted isn't an option for a protein alternative.

Grass fed beef fat has to be the best food in the world....I love it!:goodjob:

lol had one of them also it was mixed with jersey lol but it was said to be angus/jersey mix but that was a year on grain (14 months old when butchered) with the holstein that i just took in holstein was 585lbs and the angus/jersey mix was 501lbs hanging weight at 14 months on grain and grass and hay that was left out side (free bales) and they ate it all wouldnt give ones that are only getting grass that stuff but with grain they do fine they didnt get any silage i was cutting gas costs hauling a load every 2 days last year 6 miles to the farm and 6 miles back added up the gas and really didnt put the weight on like this past years grain fed did so i think for this year im gonna do the same just feed them grain and (free hay)

and if i get a couple beef breeds cheap then ill do one on grain and one on grass and see what happens with a "BEEF" breed

i get all mine for a couple dairy farms around here average price is $50 per calf and i get them off milk and sell most of them and keep 2-4 a year

and yes this is dariy counrty and every time you turn around there is another one going out and less and less farms around and more dairy farms selling out and going to land farming and no animals just crops i know 4 that went out last year and sold all there dairy cows and calves and most of there old stuff and got nice land farming stuff (tractors, drills, planters, bailers, hay wagons) and now thats all they do turned all the pastures to corn pretty much and make money rather than loose it every time you milk a cow since the milk prices went down so far they dont even cover the costs to run every thing and feed them

so we will see after a while how many farms are left over the years if they keep raising the price of every thing but what you make

Well, as far as human beings being an omnivore - it depends on who you ask - you can find experts that say we aren't or weren't originally and have adapted over time through micro evolution to be suited to it (which I agree with). I don't base my thoughts on that on what experts say really. . .mine belief that humans are not omnivorous from creation comes from my religious based beliefs (which indicate we were created vegetarian or vegan originally), and perfectly good protein does come tempeh, nuts, soybeans/edamame, black beans, miso, quinoa. . .these are protein rich vegan options. . . of course, conflicting info is out there on everything. The whole vegan. vegetarian and omnivore is a war that has no end. . .
For me, I opt for vegetarianism because I don't want to eat animals. . .not the health benefits that is usually associated with it.
But anyway ^ all that is off track from the OP's question. . .lol.