any ideas for converting to rotational grazing?

trbizwiz - I think my situation as far as moves is different than yours and agmantoo's - I don't move my cows under or over wires - I have spring gates at the end of my rectangular permanent sections that I size accordingly with polywire so 2 strand would not hinder the movement of my cattle.

I do however understand how it would be a problem if I were doing it that way.

I am trying to transition to a new property if I can get a deal done. Ill be setting it up in 2 lanes with a transport lane in th ecenter. That lane will allow access to water in the form of a pond and a frost free waterer, as well as trees for shelter in hot and cold months. THis will greatly reduce the work load for rotational grazing, which is critical when scaling up in size. In order to do this crossing wires as agman does is the only viable way I cn visualize. But yes if your system does not rely on transport lanes to meet water and shelter needs then a 2 wire system would be very effective in keeping most beef on a paddock. But your young spunky calves will still get through. It would probably take 2 hot and a ground to really lock down a paddock. Even then the young and adventerous will probably escape. THose make good beef, but cut off those genetics. They should only do it for a few months. Eventually they grow up and settle down. Still adventerous is not a gene you want to pass on.

__________________
Sold the farm no more critters
I have a postage stamp lot now
I aim to make it the most organic productive 1/3 acre in southwest Missouri
With a 20 acre plot to be added in 3 years or so

I do not have any perimeter fence jumpers. They left here years ago. My cattle are docile regardless of what some say about Angus types. I only have 4 strands of high tensile electric perimeter fence. The spacing is 12, 22, 32 and 42. Only the 22 and the 42 are hot. During thunderstorm season I switch the top wire from hot to ground. This arrangement has reduced the damage to my fence chargers from lightning. Four stands are not adequate to keep small calves in in high traffic areas IMO.

As for a single stand of partition fencing I find that it works best for me. With my herd count I also like raising the fence as compared to any type of gate. I typically move cattle near fence corners and the fence aids in "funneling" the cattle in the direction they are being moved. If you want frustration, try to move cattle through any type gate in the middle of a long straight run of any number of stands. Cattle really are not that smart and if you create any type of maze they get confused. Another point is that cattle like to walk in the same tracks as the other cattle use. If the gates are in a fixed location they will wear the ground bare where they are forced to concentrate. By raising the partition fence I can create a "gate" most anywhere and reduce the soil compaction and the damage to the forage.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

any advice on heights with dexters probally followed by turkeys

use the HT goat wire if you are planning on running poultry. IF it is electrified it will reduce your ground predators. But the air predators will be your biggest problem until the tirkeys are adult size. HT goat wire can be pricey and you will need a big charger because that is a lot of wire to energize.

__________________
Sold the farm no more critters
I have a postage stamp lot now
I aim to make it the most organic productive 1/3 acre in southwest Missouri
With a 20 acre plot to be added in 3 years or so

I stumbled onto this thread about a week ago and am really thankful for the education. We are a small producer of custom beef and have been thinking of starting a rotational grazing system. The information you folks have provided has been priceless. I think Agman needs to start his own "graziers school" and I would be the first to sign up!

I have now read the entire thread and need more reading material. Any on-line suggestions?

Agman: Are you willing to look at a layout I have been thinking about for a small place just south of Atlanta?

Again, you guys are a blessing. Keep up the great work.
Dwight

Dwight, welcome to the site!

I haven't been able to find any site more informative than this one. If anyone else knows of one, I'd love to see it.

Dwight

I will review your layout. This is a busy time of year for me and I may be a little slow with feedback however. Indicate on your plans where all water(streams, ponds and wells) are located and where you expect to corral/load/unload/vet treat/owner treat, etc. You are located where? What type fencing do you have?

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Good Morning Everyone:

Gabriel: Thanks for the reply. I have not found another either.

Agmantoo: Thanks. I know about busy! I will get the info you requested and will post as soon as I can.

Thanks again,
Dwight

"As iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another" Proverbs 27:17

Agmantoo,
Thank you for inviting me over to the board and thread. I have been working on how to go about using your type of rotational grazing, using a number of books including "All Flesh Is Grass" by Logsdon, but the books lacked the personal discussion that this thread has.

I am in no rush to get things started as I only have 17 cattle on over 600 acres. My eventual goal is to have ~68 cattle with most of the offspring being sold directly to the consumer using the sale barn as a last resort. I do want to get things moving by next spring so have some work set out for me this fall/winter. My time frame for this depends on other business ventures but I believe within three years I can have everything in place and working. I should also state that this project is my lowest priority as it costs me nothing to leave it alone and let it continue to pay the taxes and insurance on the land.

To answer your standard questions:
1. > 600 acres with about 300 in good pasture, the rest forest
2. All fields are fenced with 3 strand barb wire
3. All fields have access to water (river, springs, or ponds)
4. Very little access to electric (property is in the middle of nowhere)
5. Most fields are long and straight which makes creating paddocks easy
6. I currently have travel lanes I can use to move the cattle or allow access to resources if I cross fence with electric
7. I have figured out how to use gravity fed water lines and movable waterers to provide water after I start using the paddock design.
8. I have cattle handling facilities but they need some rework (planned for this winter)
9. My tenant/partner has a lifetime of experience with cattle including vet skills
10. Location SW MO in zone 6a
11. I have a tractor with implements including a 10' rotary mower

Some challenges I have:
1. 2/3rds of fields are flooded by the river once or twice a year. Usually not more than 15 feet of water depth over fields (drains within 5 to 10 days)
2. My tenant has 8 horses that I have to work into the plan. For some reason he does not get that they are eating him out of house and home. Like many who keep them he is horse poor...
3. My tenant/partner has a lifetime of experience with cattle which means he has a lot of relearning to do

Quick question?
Has anyone used a set of solar chargers to power the cross fences for their paddocks? I intend to leave my field boundary fence as barbwire but use the electric (solar chargers) to cross fence.

My to do list:
1. Educate tenant / partner
2. Get accurate measurements of my land so I can plan the paddocks properly
3. Plan paddocks
4. Repair all fences and redesign the ones along the river so the flooding destroys less fence each year
5. Purchase electric fencing equipment
6. Start...

Any suggestions right off the bat? And is there anyone in SW MO already along this path who would not mind a visitor? Being that my tenant and I are from the "show me state" I need to show him.

3legdonkey

I use a solar fence charger at the back side of my place. It is a ParMak 12 volt unit that I bought roughly 3 years ago. Do not even consider the 6 volt unit. The one that I have went the entire three years on the original battery but just recently I replaced the battery to be assured that the fence charger would be a peak when I need it. Shop the internet for the best value for this unit.

Reading your post above it appears that you are about set to go forward with your venture. I do not understand why you want to limit the herd size to ~68 head however. I try to hold the cow/heifer count to ~100 and I only have 141 acres in pasture at this time. I would like to suggest that you attempt to determine what the requirement in acreage is for maintaining a cow/calf during "trying" conditions and at least bring the headcount up to that.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

I think under grazing pressure while not as bad as over grazing will still cost you income and create more work.

The problem for me - last year was a bad year and I fed a lot of hay (learning experience as it was my first year). This year while I have 3 more cattle than last year the weather has been cooperative and I have more grass then they can eat which means that some get's over mature unless I want to spend the time and money to clip the pasture.

Thank you for the extra fast response!

Beside the 6volt battery and it possibly being harder to find what is the issue with the 6 volt model?

Also I like the looks of this one as it is somewhat idiot proof.
http://www.patriotchargers.com/ps15.htm
I figure after a year of reviews on Amazon I should know if it at least works... And at the price I can buy 4 of them so I have two spares.

Simple. Nature can take 2/3rds of my acreage from me at any time and put it under water for a week. So I have to plan for floods and the issues they will cause me. I cannot have ground that is torn up like you did at the begging of the year or I could lose significant soil to the river.
I have had over 160 cattle on the property when it was rented for grazing. But the damage they did to the land was significant. I have almost 80 acres that are now across the river because of poor land management practices. So I must be very cautious with my loading so as to have the least damaging effect on the land.

It is possible over time I may figure out that I can add 10 or 20 more cows and not create any undue stresses but at the moment 12 cows will pay the taxes and insurance so 60 to 70 would be exceptional!

The ParMak 6volt solar has too low of an output for large acreage.
The Patriot unit (Maximum output energy Up to 0.15 )
is a lower output that the 6 volt ParMak. More money spent for a unit that will perform is far cheaper than buying a handful of units that are unsatisfactory. The ParMak has a good warranty also.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

I probably have a different problem then you and Agmantoo, I have to much water and so must accept some loss of efficiency to protect my land.

Well that settles it. I will get three of the 12v ParMak units so I have two in service and one as a backup.

Can I use Kentucky tall type 31 Fescue to overseed my cow pasture with? (ohio ,zone 5 )
It's the only seed I was able to find near me (not a huge priority right now) in a 50 lb sack.
And what about Fescue poisoning, would I have to worry about that?
I just know it holds up better in winter.
Thanks,Chris

I believe that there are more acres is Fescue than any other grass in the USA. Fescue KY31 is the backbone of my rotational grazing beef cattle operation. At certain seasons, KY31 has a higher protein content than alfalfa. Endophyte is the name of the problem associate with fescue. If you will keep the seed heads clipped your animal should do great. Planting clover for forage will also offset the endophyte. Clipping the seed heads will also promote more growth of the leafy portion and a longer growing period. At one time the county that I reside was the largest dairy county in NC. The pastures were nearly 100% KY 31 and some of those pastures still remain from the initial plantings. KY31 is an enduring forage. Fescue is considered a cool season grass but with rain it will continue to grow most of the year. I will be reseeding, within a week, fescue and ryegrass in areas where where I have some drought thinned spots. Have you tried any Marshall ryegrass? I interseed the MR with the fescue.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

agmantoo,

Did you find a new seed supplier? Is the place affordable? Care to share?

Thanks!

SCRancher

There were no bargains to be had other than with crimson clover. Tractor Supply has fescue at $29/50 lbs as a lost leader for a few more days. I linked up with a neighbor farmer to get a decent price on the crimson clover. Southern States has access to the Marshall Ryegrass but the price is over $28 / 50lb. I am uncertain what the shipping would be but the best source I know of is http://www.clemmonshamnerseed.com/

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!