any ideas for converting to rotational grazing?

in one of the pastures we are having a terrible time with deer...every morning they have torn up one or more temporary lines...insulators popped off and or pigtail posts popped out....I do not have enough life to walk every line everyday...the cows know the routine and seem less bothered but it is a problem we need to solve...and I would appreciate all suggestions to fix this...

also apparently last night when they took out part of the line, the fence grounded out...the parmak 12 solar charger is not doing a darn thing now....barely clicking and not putting out much at all....we have repaired all problems and still nothing...for tonight I turned it off, told the cows to stay put and came home...will resume the problem solving in the AM....

the permanent perimeter fence is barbed wire so no one can get out to the road, but we need to get back up and online.....the deer are not going to win...all ideas are welcome....thanks..

gwithrow

Take the top of the metal portion of the charger off. The solar panel and the base it is attached to will come off with the top of the charger box. Look to see if the wires are still all connected. I would think that the wire are OK and the battery is weak. Do you have a volt ohm meter to be able to check the voltage of the battery? It sounds as if the battery is not charged. Do you have a very small battery charger like the Battery Tender http://www.google.com/search?q=battery+tender&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a that is so popular? Do not try to charge the battery with a car charger. It needs to be charged with a trickle charger only.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

godsgapeach

Regarding the RR Crabgrass. It was slow to take hold but it is now established where I initially broadcast the seed. The RR crabgrass seems to be larger than the old crabgrass that is on the place. The seeds are being dispersed in the cattle manure and the plants are spreading over a much larger area.
I had an out-of-state visitor today and I have to admit I was somewhat embarrassed at how the pastures look. The lack of rain is beginning to impact all the weeds as well as the planted forages. I dare not clip what exists anymore as it could be that I need the trash to feed if the drought persists.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

ok will work on charger today....but what about the deer, is there any way to get them to stay off the fence...we have hunters for the hunting season, and they will have the 'final solution,' but what about now?

How many strands are you running, just one? What height? Is it wire or poly-twine? Have you done anything to make it more visible, such as putting strips of foil on it?

first of all in the morning daylight we discovered the problem.....a strand of electric wire wound up with the barbed wire fence....the electric is held away from the fence with an extended insulator, but I suspect our deer friends got a foot caught as they sailed over it, and it got caught on the barbs....so that is solved, thankfully.....now to the deer...charger is now back in the green zone....

it is wire, not polywire as these are our semi-permanent paddocks for rotational grazing,.....the posts are a mixture of pigtails and rebar posts and a few fiberglass ones.....we have orange flags on the wire....the cows all know where it is, and are great about not bothering it....the donkeys as well.....I will put aluminum foil if that is recommended here....oh and these interier fences are all single strand, about 30 inches high....where we live is surrounded by wilderness...well sort of wilderness....people live near the roads here and there, and back behind is pretty rugged for miles around...we have a lot of wildlife all over....we also have hunters during the hunting season....but I don't think they put a dent in the deer population....I just need them to stay in their sector, the woods, and leave my fences alone......

I also need recommendations for the best t-post insulators...and for one that will clip on a pigtail post...regular rod insulators won't work since they can't slide over the pigtail or the foot area...thanks

I'm with you! It does look horrible here, too. Turning my herd back out was NOT my plan, but desperate times... and I'm just thankful I had something to turn them out on! I'm hoping that the little bit of rain we got Sunday will help the forage gain a foothold.

Praying for rain for those who need it!

Hope you and the Mrs. are well!

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Godsgapeach

“There are two ways to get enough: one is to accumulate more and more. The other is to desire less.”

–GK Chesterton

Gwithrow - These rod insulators actually do slide over the top of a pigtail post:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/electri...-of-25-3600443

I didn't think they would work but it turns out you can actually make them slip over the top part of a pigtail post. They work beautifully for us; I'm not sure they're the *best*, but they're good enough for what we need them to do (which is to keep two strands of wire on the pigtail post below the pigtail).

Agmantoo,

Great post this one, I can only echo others thanks for sharing your experiences and time. A quick question I have is how do you go about handling the cattle - esp when wanting to seperate the young stock in order to send to the sale barn. Do you use or have mobile handling facitlities??.

main_man

My cattle are very manageable in that I can call them and they will respond by following me provided they have a stomach full of forage. I have a lane that leads to a staging area that consists of two small paddocks with a woven wire separating the areas. The woven wire is installed diagonally creating a "funnel" at each end. Each end of this partition fence has a gate. I let the cattle graze the first paddock some then I open the gate to the 2nd paddock. The cattle move through the gate onto the fresh paddock and I close the gate. I leave them there to graze some but there is no water in the paddock. About the time I need to sort the cattle I open the gate on the other end of the diagonal fence that leads to water and toward the first paddock but this gate diverts the cattle into a large holding pen made from recycled chain link fence. This pen can hold the entire herd. The far end of the holding pen has a narrow lane that again leads toward the first paddock but at the last instance turns the opposite direction into the sorting pen. From the holding pen I drive 10 to 14 animals at a time down the lane to the sorting pen. The sorting pen, my design, is more or less a corral made from recycled guard rail. There I sort from the small manageable group. Those animals being shipped are penned and the others animals are let out into the first paddock. I repeat this effort until the entire herd has passed through the process. It takes me about 2 hours to sort. I hire the transport for the market animals. The sale barn carries insurance from my farm to the sale barn. The trailer owner/driver helps load the trailer so with his help I can finish the task. Otherwise, this is a one person operation.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

I have been very blessed this week. Some friends have offered to buy my home. It has been a great hpome for the last 5 years. It is beautiful, and very comfortable for my family. However, 5 years or so ago when I started building it I sorta lost my mind. I went over board and spent too much. The mortgage has been overwhelming the last few years. I have been tring to start a farm on cash alone. It has been slow going. In selling my home I have made an offer to the owner fo the land I am currently borrowing to purchase it. I expect to hear this week. It is 28 or possibly 30 acres just depending on some deed issues. It connects to 180 acres i hope to buy in 3 to 5 years if all goes well. THe 180 acres is owned by folks that live 3 hours away. They inherited it from family and thye lease the land currently. they are nearing retirement age and do not wish to retire to the country. They indicated selling that land may be a part of their retirement plans. SO who knows.
On with my question. THis is mostly to Agmantoo. I am trying to figure out how to lay this out the most effeciently.


THe area in yellow marked 3.5 is the perspective land. the area in red (red is very faint it is marked 3.3) and yellow is my current property. The plan is to buy the 28 acres 3 of which is the small area just west of my current property. I will trade the 3 acre portion to my buyers for 3 acres off the east end of my current property. I have spoken with my buyers and they are ok with this. THey have no interest in farming and would only want to remove the fencing anyway. I will also have to remove the fencing because the layout is wrong especially when you take into consideration how the other 25 acres will need to be laid out. As for housing we are planning to build a barndominium. Hopefully we will get this all done with a very small mortgage which we can pay off in under 2 years. Though i will have to stock up on cattle this fall adn I will need a ranger or gator to manage everything so I will have soome other costs that could push paying off the note for 3 years. In any case I should be debt free by 40 so that has been a big goal of mine, in order to retire from town by 55. Or sooner if all works out.
As a side note, I do have permission from th eland owner to use the 28 acres. Even after I buy the land I will still have permission to use the land on the 5 acre plott in the middle marked 3.1,. So I figured I will fence around the perimiter of 3.1, but I will put poly gates on the north and south border of the property so I can graze right through it with out having to go around. The only reason I cna t buy the 2 acres off the back is that land has a loan adn the owner doesnt thing the bank will let him sell off the 2 acres.

I will see if I can get you some measurements on this property.

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Sold the farm no more critters
I have a postage stamp lot now
I aim to make it the most organic productive 1/3 acre in southwest Missouri
With a 20 acre plot to be added in 3 years or so

trbizwiz

I am unable to follow your plans to the extent that I need. Could you include a perimeter of the entire acreage that you will be having once the sell occurs and the trade of acreage? Mark individual acres of any current and future paddocks. Also include where you intend to build and where water is available if you plan on using existing streams or wells. Thanks

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

I don't know how to draw on that map. If anyone has a suggestion let me know. However perhaps I can describe it. The top of the picture is north. The northern border is 1315 feet. The eastern border is 1271 feet. The southern border is 671 feet which included half of my original lot. The western border of that section from north to south is 705 feet. The far western border is 702 feet. From the south end if the far western border to the northern end is 648 feet. The layout is an L. Other than the pond there is no water currently. We will be building in the north west corner and a well and septic will go in there. I can run water lines and fence anywhere I need to. The perimeter is barbed wire. I plan to remove that and replace it with 5 wire ht fence. I'll use the power flex posts. I think a lane to the pond and trees would be nice especially pally if it could connect to every paddock. Not sure how to ache e that though.
If anyone knows how do draw on pictures let me know.

__________________
Sold the farm no more critters
I have a postage stamp lot now
I aim to make it the most organic productive 1/3 acre in southwest Missouri
With a 20 acre plot to be added in 3 years or so

goshdarn tractor.......
guess my field will be a crappy weed making pasture for next year.
hiring a farmer to bush hog it monday. Thats the best we could do with a broken piece of poop tractor
How much could we expect to pay for a bigger tractor thaty will actually RUN?

Well my land negotiations took a curve ball. They are wanting me to take the house and five too. I don't want to be spending valuable time on a remodel. Might be back to looking for land.

__________________
Sold the farm no more critters
I have a postage stamp lot now
I aim to make it the most organic productive 1/3 acre in southwest Missouri
With a 20 acre plot to be added in 3 years or so

When grazing stockpiled grass in the spring, how good is grass that dissarears under snow in December when it strats to re-appear in March or April?

No chance to follow the rest of you into a no hay winter, but I figure that I could graze longer, feed less.

greengrow
Numerous factors impact how good the grass is that disappears under the snow. Some grasses are better for stockpiling than others. I get the most mileage from fescue, the one with the endophyte issues. For example it is mid July and I am still grazing fescue which is a cool season grass. Most likely it will go dormant within a month however. Then come late August or early September it will reemerge with rain. With proper conditions, I expect a burst of growth on the established fescue and it is a time for newly seeded fescue here in western NC to exhibit its growth capability. As for the strengths of fescue as a grazing forage here is a site that gives the backup data to support my thoughts.
http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences/pubs/agr162.pdf
With any grazing program a "chain" of forages needs to be considered in order to provide the maximum amount of grazing throughout the year as this is the least cost means of feeding. For me, starting in Jan I will be feeding stockpiled fescue, sometimes snow covered. This will continue until early to mid March. At that time Fall sowed Marshall ryegrass will have some growth and that will slowly become the major forage followed by fescue. Come mid April the fescue will become the main feed along with the ryegrass. I nurse the fescue to keep it in the leaf stage by clipping. This clipping effort will continue until August. I have a few acres seeded in Red River crabgrass to aid in getting through this period of no growth by the other grasses. In August I clip to get rid of any weeds that could go to seed. Typically we will get frost before the clipped weeds can regrow to produce seed. September is time for me to reseed the annual ryegrass and to touch up areas that may need some fescue seed. As evidenced above you can see the "chain" of forages that link the months of the year together to create all year grazing for me. Even those that may have a "link" missing in the grazing chain should be able to extend the grazing periods with grasses adaptable to their location using rotational grazing techniques. There will be times that the rate of gain may suffer but that inefficiency will be offset by the periods, with tremendous growth of the forages, that will allow for compensatory gain. Personally I am unaware of any means to produce overall gains over time at a lower cost.

__________________
Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Any strategies on how to get through a drought period? I have about 1 week of grazing left and then I'm done until it starts to rain again. The only green thing in my pasture right now is the alfalfa. The clover is burnt, the grasses are nonexistent, and I can see bare cracked ground through it all.

Things to consider to reduce purchased feed costs: I could wean the lambs early (10 weeks old) and put the ewes on a poorer quality hay, keeping the best for the growing lambs. The lambs have been on grass only, so I don't know how they will adjust to a grain portion. I can try to graze a wood lot with the open ewes and steers, though I've never done this before, so I don't know the food quality in it. I have a Jersey due to freshen next month that I need to consider. I also have a 18 month old ~800 lb. steer that I planned to butcher at the end of the season that I could put in the freezer now, but dk how he would taste given the grass he has been on.

A little background: I'm grazing 32 acres using a rotational system, usually daily moves. I have 50 ewes with 80 lambs, 15 open ewes, 3 rams, 2 steers, and 1 Jersey. This is my 3rd year farming, so I'm still learning as my flock grows.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

I would seriously consider the wood lot - it all depends on how mature it is and how much under story plants it has. I used my 10 year old clear cut to carry me through part of last winter and have used it again for almost a month so far this summer. How much woods are there and how mature is it?

I would NOT overgraze your existing pasture in a drought - better to feed them early IMO and leave enough plant material to gather dew when it's available and to rebound quicker when you finally do get rain. I made the mistake of overgrazing last year during a drought and then army worms came and ate the rest into dirt - I had a 40 acre dirt field at the end of September, I had started feeding hay at the end of august and except for the 6ish weeks in the wood lot in the dead of winter I fed the cattle till the end of February.

Weaning early is also a good thing doing exactly as you said giving the ewes poorer quality hay and the growing lambs the better quality hay or selling the lambs sooner.

18 month old steer is not too soon to butcher from what I have read here but I have no experience with it but I would consider that a very viable option - you could put him on 60 days of good quality hay and grain to fatten him up prior to butchering and that would get him some weight and change his composition - flavor.