any ideas for converting to rotational grazing? - Page 80

thestartupman · #**2371** 09/12/12, 02:23 PM

I understand you know. Thanks for the suggestion.

thestartupman · #**2372** 09/12/12, 05:01 PM

Opps I meant i understand you now.

ycanchu2 · #**2373** 09/12/12, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thestartupman

Opps one more question. I have two large oak trees that are in perfect alignment with were I want to put the HT fence. Would there be any thing wrong with hanging the HT wire from these trees?

if use trees in your HT line there is always that chance of lightening hitting the tree and jumping to your fence and knocking out your fence charger.

thestartupman · #**2374** 09/13/12, 08:46 AM

I am not real big on putting any kind of fencing on trees. These trees are just in perfect alignment with where I want my fencing.

thestartupman · #**2375** 09/13/12, 09:23 AM

Ok, here is another idea I want to throw out for your opinion. It helps open up the weird corner in the field near the pond, but keeps my padock lines going so I don't have to walk through the tree lines to hook them up. Let me know your thoughts if you would.

agmantoo · #**2376** 09/13/12, 02:18 PM

If you want to stay out of the woods you could do something like this. Me I would have gone through the woods as the cattle will have cleared the undergrowth. As a seasoned farmer I remain adamant about leaving the fields unencumbered.

In your last layout how were your going to get the cattle to water?

thestartupman · #**2377** 09/13/12, 03:27 PM

My thought was to use step ins and poly wire to make temporary lanes as needed on the east side, for the east fields, and on the west side for the southern fields. It would also allow me to use the field were the two lanes meet as a paddock occasionally. Again thanks for all the feedback and ideas.

Awnry Abe · #**2378** 09/14/12, 02:52 PM

For those that buy chicken litter...

1) How did you go about procuring it? Did you start calling on poultry farms or did you find a litter hauler? I found a hauler (more like a recycler) that is asking $65/ton delivered, not spread. Gulp.

2) Is the product that you purchased much like what you would expect that has been scooped from the chicken houses? Raw--full of clumps, feathers, birds, bedding, etc. Or was it processed in any fashion to make it easier on a spreader?

3) Is there a time of year that would be advantageous to spread it? Or a time to avoid? I am particularly interested in spreading it on fescue dominate pastures.

randyandmegs · #**2379** 09/15/12, 04:08 PM

Agmantoo or anyone that has any thoughts... which bull in the Pharo cattle book do you like the best for my heifers? I will be A/Iing them as soon as all my cattle handling equipment gets here from the factory in TX which should be mid next week. Also where can a person get a semen tank filled with liquid nitrogen? I dont want to use ABS or Select sires because I dont plan to purchase their semen. I plan to take all my grown steers to the sale next Tuesday as well as 1 heifer that need to cull already.

ramiller5675 · #**2380** 09/15/12, 05:56 PM

randyandmegs - After taking a quick look, I like the Black Angus bull Rebel. It says he is becoming one of the most popular bulls they offer (everybody else likes him for a reason), and his numbers and ratings look pretty good.

Besides that, that's all I can offer.

MarkM · #**2381** 09/16/12, 03:18 PM

Zone 7, SE OK. Good recent rain.

This paddock has rested 55 days. I rotate daily. Should I graze this again or leave it as is for stockpile?

agmantoo · #**2382** 09/16/12, 05:47 PM

MarkM

Always graze to tallest forage you have. Using that guideline will get you the most mileage from your grass and conserve or minimize hay consumption.

agmantoo · #**2383** 09/16/12, 05:55 PM

randyandmegs

Not ignoring your request but I will not be making a recommendation. Somewhere there is an adage that if you have nothing positive to say then say nothing.

MarkM · #**2384** 09/16/12, 06:18 PM

Thanks agman, I had moved them into that paddock today. It is the tallest, and best, forage I have. Just needed some confirmation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by agmantoo

MarkM

Always graze to tallest forage you have. Using that guideline will get you the most mileage from your grass and conserve or minimize hay consumption.

CesumPec · #**2385** 09/16/12, 07:37 PM

randyandmegs - I don't know anything first hand, so I would not make a recommendation. But angus reportedly does not do as well as grass fed as does Devon and a few other breeds I can't remember now. Florida cracker cow is recommended for the soil and grass we have in central and south Florida. So you might need to check with someone local who operates in the same manner as you.

randyandmegs · #**2386** 09/17/12, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agmantoo

randyandmegs

Not ignoring your request but I will not be making a recommendation. Somewhere there is an adage that if you have nothing positive to say then say nothing.

I thought I had read in the past you were a fan of Pharo??? Or is it AI in general? Im not following your thought process on this one. Not like you to hold your tounge even on a negative thought.

SCRancher · #**2387** 09/21/12, 08:48 AM

Agmantoo - Stockpiling Forage Question: In a recent post you stated that you always graze the tallest forage first. Can you describe how that works with stockpiling? I'm having a hard time figuring out how to stockpile yet graze the tallest forage first. I see two alternatives: 1) you don't graze an area at all and simply let it grow (breaking the graze tallest forage first) 2) with the increase in forage production the forage get's ahead of you?? I can't seem to stockpile with option #2 so I'm assuming your using Option #1. BUT if you have a different methodology to stockpiling please elaborate! Thanks!

agmantoo · #**2388** 09/21/12, 09:20 PM

SCRancher

I am constantly grazing as you realize. I have grass that was grazed yesterday, last week and last month. etc. As the herd needs forage I grazed the oldest and most likely the tallest grass grass in the pastures. As the fescue breaks dormancy it will start growing vigorously if moisture is present. This rate of growth will allow a reduction of the amount of area allocated. I find that new grow is more rapid and IMO generates more forage than forage that has reached near or is at maturing. Feeding the tallest/oldest forage will then leave the areas with greatest growth producing at a higher rate of recovering thus contributing more forage for Winter. On the warm days of Fall and early Winter we will also see the grazed tall grass areas producing some growth. Come February we can return and get some grazing there. If I had too much mature grass in the Fall I would let common reasoning prevail and set aside the area for emergency Winter feed. I seldom if ever have this luxury. I never waste feed since I cannot predict future needs. At this time I have a lot of young calves and my mature cow to forage acre is 1 cow per 1.3 acres that need ground water.

randyandmegs · #**2389** 09/26/12, 11:10 AM

Agman,

I have a 17 acre pasture that I had originally planned on grazing mid to late summer and ends up I just have completed the lane and planning to graze it through the winter. I clipped it in early seed stage and I posted pictures a few months back. I had a fair amount of Johnson Grass and Stickweed growning and I clippied it pretty high again about 3-4 weeks ago. My question is... Should I have clipped it lower this time of year to stimulate growth better in order to build a stock pile for the winter or will the taller grass still grow enough to produce good forage for them this winter?

As always thanks for your help.

agmantoo · #**2390** 09/26/12, 12:36 PM

randyandmegs

I would continue to knock any developing seed head off but I would not drop down into the fescue and clip any leaves of the fescue to accomplish the task. If the weather reverts to near normal you should be able to smother or choke the weeds into control next season. If you plan on eradicating the Johnson grass you will IMO need to get a weed wiper. I am uncertain of what you are referring to as stickweed. I hear various weeds here, such as ragweed and beggar lice, being called stickweed. Will you cattle eat your stickweed when the growth is new/tender?

randyandmegs · #**2391** 09/27/12, 06:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agmantoo

randyandmegs

I would continue to knock any developing seed head off but I would not drop down into the fescue and clip any leaves of the fescue to accomplish the task. If the weather reverts to near normal you should be able to smother or choke the weeds into control next season. If you plan on eradicating the Johnson grass you will IMO need to get a weed wiper. I am uncertain of what you are referring to as stickweed. I hear various weeds here, such as ragweed and beggar lice, being called stickweed. Will you cattle eat your stickweed when the growth is new/tender?

Nothing will eat Stickweed aka Yellow Crownbeard in any stage, not even goats. I have 3 test areas going from pulling it up, to spraying with 2-4-d, and mowing. Link below shows it.

Verbesina (wingstem, crownbeard, froststem)

I know not to clip this late down into the fescue as there is not time to get good regrowth my main question was to see if I should have cut it lower in mid august to stimulate growth. Seems most of what I have left is the same older growth from the clipping in early summer and wondering if it will grow out any more before frost.

trbizwiz · #**2392** 09/27/12, 10:16 AM

Crown ranch....find a litter hauler that is a spreader. I did not know anyone hauled it and did not spread it. It would be highly difficult to spread with out the proper equipement. Expect haulers to promise to deliver litter for weeks before they actually do. They tend to be an unpredictable lot. I assume they tend to their primary accounts first adn fill in gaps with us little guys.
the spread litter will mostly look like feathers and sawdust. It will have a strong odor fro atleast a week. When I saw strong, I mean county wide strong. It woudl be best to spread it the day before a rain. that will knock the dust and odor down a bit. This stuff will leave dust every where. If it is near your house, you will need to wash everything after it is done.
the litter trucks are heavy. Soft ground and heavy trucks dont mix. take that in to consideration.
There shold be not birds in the litter. There may be some parts, but doubtful. The poultry houses are good about picking up and disposing of those because of regulations.
Aas to finding one, check the local paper, check craigslist, and ask around. If that fails drive around with your windows down adn when you smell some very strong odor, it is a little sweet, and a lot foul, stop and ask them who did it. I paid $30 per ton spread here in SW Mo two springs ago. But there is a poultry house on every other section around here.
figure a ton per acre as an application rate unless you have a soil test that tells you other wise. Soil tests are always best, but so few want to take the time.

ycanchu2 · #**2393** 09/27/12, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randyandmegs

Nothing will eat Stickweed aka Yellow Crownbeard in any stage, not even goats. I have 3 test areas going from pulling it up, to spraying with 2-4-d, and mowing. Link below shows it.

Verbesina (wingstem, crownbeard, froststem)

I know not to clip this late down into the fescue as there is not time to get good regrowth my main question was to see if I should have cut it lower in mid august to stimulate growth. Seems most of what I have left is the same older growth from the clipping in early summer and wondering if it will grow out any more before frost.

IMO you can't go wrong mowing, unless you mow too short. I don't know how high/low you are talking about when you mention cutting lower in August.
IMO if you are a month or more out from grazing your tall fescue, clipping the tops of your fescue, will only stimulate more growth, provided you have moisture. You must leave plenty of leaf area for photosynthesis. If your in doubt do you a test strip or two and see.

Gabriel · #**2394** 09/27/12, 04:29 PM

Mowing only rarely passes the marginal reaction test, for me. In other words, when I consider the $ cost (fuel, tractor maintenance) and my time, it's not worth it. Growth will never exceed the mature size of the plant, so as long as it's not so old it died, mowing gets me what I've already got. That's a best case scenario - worst case is that it doesn't regrow in time before the cows graze it and now they'll be even slower to regrow. Forage consistency is every bit as important as forage quality, because the microbes in the cows gut adapt to what they're fed. So if you mow in order to give younger, more palatable grass, you lock yourself into doing that all the time.

HDRider · #**2395** 09/27/12, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel

Mowing only rarely passes the marginal reaction test, for me. In other words, when I consider the $ cost (fuel, tractor maintenance) and my time, it's not worth it. Growth will never exceed the mature size of the plant, so as long as it's not so old it died, mowing gets me what I've already got. That's a best case scenario - worst case is that it doesn't regrow in time before the cows graze it and now they'll be even slower to regrow. Forage consistency is every bit as important as forage quality, because the microbes in the cows gut adapt to what they're fed. So if you mow in order to give younger, more palatable grass, you lock yourself into doing that all the time.

Don't most of us have those four legged mowers, mostly black or red, some white or brown, some even have horns??

I hear they make gas, but never heard of one that needs gas.

ycanchu2 · #**2396** 09/27/12, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel

Mowing only rarely passes the marginal reaction test, for me. In other words, when I consider the $ cost (fuel, tractor maintenance) and my time, it's not worth it. Growth will never exceed the mature size of the plant, so as long as it's not so old it died, mowing gets me what I've already got. That's a best case scenario - worst case is that it doesn't regrow in time before the cows graze it and now they'll be even slower to regrow. Forage consistency is every bit as important as forage quality, because the microbes in the cows gut adapt to what they're fed. So if you mow in order to give younger, more palatable grass, you lock yourself into doing that all the time.

Younger more palatable grass is only a pleasant byproduct of mowing. I also call it mechanical grazing.
What I am talkng about here is when you have an abundance of grass. Research has shown mature grass goes downhill just as overgrazed grass does. What we want to do is to maximize the grass's root system.....stimulate it and make as vigorous and as huge as possible. mowing or grazing too low or in other words too close to the crown causes the plant to exhaust its root reserves to regrow.
Although I haven't been doing IRG all that long. I have stockpiled fescue for years.
i remember a few years back that I had a decent field of fescue stockpiling about this time of year. This was back when I grew tobacco. For those who don't know, you top or cut the bloom out of the top of the plant in order for the leaves to spread. So I decided to try that same concept on the grass, so I bushhogged just the top few inches out of it and it was just like you gave it a shot of steroids, it just kept thickening up and growing taller, I couldn't believe it.
I just didn't have the sense to not graze it too short, and so when we do that its just like starting all over again.
For me it is economical I have a batwing so I can mow for between 1/2 gal, and 1 gal. per acre.

SCRancher · #**2397** 09/28/12, 06:22 AM

If I had a 15 foot bat wing I would probably mow more than the once or twice a year that I do now. I typically mow just before spring to knock down all the tall dead weeds. It simply takes too long - primary reason - and IMO uses too much fuel. I also can't seem to get my bush hot to mow above 4 inches with the way it's setup. If I bought a used 15 foot batwing the first thing I would do is to have it modified to cut minimum of 6 inches high. I just can't justify the price of a batwing at this time.

ycanchu2 · #**2398** 09/28/12, 07:35 AM

I hear what you are saying........a 10' pull behind would probably be economical too. Anything less than that and you feel like you were in the tractor seat all year long.

Gabriel · #**2399** 09/28/12, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ycanchu2

I hear what you are saying........a 10' pull behind would probably be economical too. Anything less than that and you feel like you were in the tractor seat all year long.

Try a 5' bush hog and you'll know why it doesn't pass my test.

If I had the money to buy the larger equipment, I wouldn't, I'd buy cattle during the times of the year that I needed them. I don't like things that rust, rot and depreciate. I spot mowed once this year, had some brambles and saplings that had to go. By not giving myself the option of mowing all the time I'm forced to get better at managing the animal impact.

Book recommendation: Holistic Management... I've just started it, but it's good enough already that I'd recommend it for anyone with land to manage.

randyandmegs · #**2400** 09/28/12, 08:15 AM

We have a 10' Woods bush hog that makes pretty quick work of it. The field I'm talking about is our normal hay field. We have 180 round bales on hand so no need to bale for a quite a while. I hoped to graze that field but my water line installers put me way behind and I just finished the project of getting the lane done. I want to graze that this winter without using hay and I was trying to get the most and best forage I could. I also had to cut down the Johnson grass and stick weed before they went to seed. What got me to thinking about this is because on my grandpa's side he bush hogged 2 weeks before me and is getting some great regrowth but he also has his herd grazing through there every 8 days.