any ideas for converting to rotational grazing?

I haven't gotten the cows per acre figure yet.

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www.franciscanfamilyfarms.com
Chaffee, Mo

So, at this point in our rotation we are covering ground that had quite a few bare spots this spring. Those bare spots allowed volunteer grasses, pigweed... and just a little lambsquarter to establish. The cows are doing a good job of cleaning up the area (It's really only one end of each paddock) and I look forward to seeing how the reqrowth looks.


After one day of grazing.....


There are still alot of stems, most trampled but nearly every seed head and leaf has been removed from the weeds. Now that there as been foxtail in the last 5 or so paddocks I have noticed that they devour the foxtail first... it's obviously their favorite despite the fact that their is abundant alfalfa and orchard grass.

I just got a reply from Greg Judy... He said they require 2.4 acres per Animal Unit (1000lb) cow per year with no input other than fence and cows.

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www.franciscanfamilyfarms.com
Chaffee, Mo

[QUOTE=agmantoo;3922493] Since your operation is subject to chance I suggest you consider only access lanes and let the cattle return to the nearest source of water rather than installing a system at this time. /QUOTE]


Sorry for the long delay with my questions and answers, I am a visual learner, so reading and understanding can take some time(which I never seem to have). I also am not able to put my thoughts into words very well so please bear with me. When you are saying access lanes are you meaning that I should have long "padocks" that lead to one central location for water? On the size you want it to be big enough to allow the cattle to graze for a pre-determined amount of time and then move... right? The number of padocks would then be determined by how long it takes for the forage to regrow....right? Sorry for the repeat questions, but for some reason this is reminding me of Calc 2.

I have a typo in the quote....Since your operation is subject to chance I suggest you consider only access lanes and let the cattle return to the nearest source of water rather than installing a system at this time. /QUOTE] .....the word change needs to replace chance!

Most rotational grazing is done in fixed size paddocks. My proposal is to have variable size paddocks. IMO, the best layout is with long parallel strips that are enclosed with wire on the sides. The length then can be adjusted in size using the polywire mounted on pigtail stepin posts. To give the cattle access to water, shade and shelter a parallel lane can be created beside the grazing paddock strips. The width of the lane can be either narrow or wide based to the lay of the land and the needs of the producer. Narrow lanes will obviously wear rapidly and be more subject to erosion. Wide lanes afford dual use, as a lane and possibly as a paddock itself.

____x________x_________x______x_____

PADDOCK

____x________x_________x______x_____
__LANE_______x_Water___x______x_____

PADDOCK
____x________x_________x______x_____

The wires that enclose the lane can be raised and supported by a PVC pipe with a V cut into the end. As the cattle move through the paddock area allocated, the wire to the lane would be raised nearest where the cattle are grazing and the cattle could move under the wire to water, shade or shelter by using the lane. The allocated paddock area would be adjusted based on need to meet the feed requirements.

The number of animals and the size of the area to be grazed needs to be balanced to the ability of the land to produce. Ideally the grass needs to be able to recover from a grazed down height of 3 inches back to a 6 plus inches height before regrazing. More regrowth is desirable but not always achievable. I like to have a rest period that exceeds 30 days or longer.

If I am unclear do not hesitate to ask for clarification.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

WOW! This thread should be retitled "marathon" or "the gift that keeps on giving"! There's some pretty good info here!

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Francismilker

"The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much" James 5:16

Agman that does help. If I am understanding correctly a person would then need about 30 paddocks (assuming a daily move) plus an additional number for stockpiled grass for those of us that have an actual winter. I am concerned about the over use of the lane that would contain the water, so I may still consider movable water in some areas. No more livestock than my property would allow I think it would be managable. The more I think of what I want to type the more I can visualize how I could layout and how it will work, so this is getting more and more helpful. I am officialy on a mission to prove my in-laws wrong.

You're mostly right but to get those 30+ usable paddocks, you may only need 1 or 2 permanent paddocks. We have 2 long rectangles with water hook ups down the middle and then we run a water hose to a small trough with a float valve. When I say small, I mean small. It probably only holds 10 gallons if full to the brim, but the cows never drink all at once and it starts refilling as soon as they drink any. This way it's small and easy to move and it stays cool.

As agmantoo said, those large or long paddocks will then be divided each day with polywire, polytape, or even wire if you want to deal with moving it. (I believe Salatin still uses wire). So, you'll need an arm full of posts that you push in with your foot and they hold electric wire, most people use posts that look like they have a pigtail on the top but O'Brien makes an all plastic post with clips that is strong too. You'll also need 3 reels with enough polywire to cross your main paddock.

Everyday you make a paddock in front of the cows and allow them to enter it by pulling back a wire and calling them in, or using a lane as Agmantoo does.

Once you get started you'll be so happy with it!

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www.franciscanfamilyfarms.com
Chaffee, Mo

Curtis,
Here in zone 7 as Summer concludes and Fall is underway we get a Fall spurt of growth similar to what occurs in the Spring. I know that this Fall growth will end as Winter arrives. Therefore, I reduce the size of the paddocks and graze them more thoroughly and down to about 2 to 3 inches. The weather still has not turned cold for fescue and the grass in the grazed paddocks will grow some on the warmer days. I will bring the cattle back to these areas should I run out of grass in the stockpiled areas. The cattle, having come out of warm weather where their feed needs were not as great and plus they have put on weight since Spring, do not need as much feed so I can get them by and at the same time conserve grass. This will let the stockpiled grass continue to grow and accumulate. I am going to make a gut feel statement that I cannot factually substantiate....In zone 7 on fescue and clover forage, I am of the opinion that if you measure the area allocated for 24 hours and graze that properly you can make a calculation for future needs by multiplying that area by 1.5. For example, if you can rotationally graze 10 cows on 10 acres during the grass growing season, then 15 acres will carry the herd year around. As the growing season shortens, based on the zone, the multiplier would have to be increased.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Agman, when do you overseed your fescue and ryegrass?

ds40,
I received part of my seed (crimson clover) this week. The Marshall ryegrass should arrive in a couple of weeks. I will start overseeding near the end of August. Additionally, I have some fescue seed that I harvested and I will broadcast those seed in Sept. on areas that are thin, mostly newly seeded areas that are drought impacted. We are way dry at this time.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Agman, I have another favor to ask of you.

Daddy got the Remedy for the Weed Wiper and he'd like to know your friend's recommendation for surfactant and at what concentration/percentage he'd mix it.

When he asked here at the extension office they just said diesel. There's no way--might as well sprinkle it with dollar bills--there are just way too many to do that. And the guy he talked to at the feed store where he bought it couldn't remember what to suggest.

Thanks as always!

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Godsgapeach

“There are two ways to get enough: one is to accumulate more and more. The other is to desire less.”

–GK Chesterton

godsgapeach
I guess you will be using the spot sprayer on the Gator?
Here are the contents
Remedy 2 pints
Water 20 gallons
Hook surfactant 6 ounces

Here are the directions. The directions need to be adhered to closely
Put 1/2 of the water in the tank Note...do not get any water in the Remedy container
Start agitation...lock the spray wand and spray back into the tank
Add the Remedy slowly
Add the remaining water...keep agitating
Add the Hook surfactant

Use of product
Agitate as much as possible
Wet the entire plant
Do not save any unused product, spray the entire contents within a couple of hours of mixing.

At this time of year and the rate of application of the herbicide you
should kill 50 plus percent of the persimmons with one spraying. You may have to spray the survivors again in the Spring.

!!!! I missed the Weed Wiper in the first sentence !!!!! I will have to make an inquiry!!!!

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Thanks a million, Agman! Yes we're going to try out the wiper this time around--we might also have to spot hit some of the trees that are too near the fenceline with the tank on the 4wheeler.

So the "recipe" is the same for the wiper as the regular spray tank?

Thanks, thanks, thanks!

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Godsgapeach

“There are two ways to get enough: one is to accumulate more and more. The other is to desire less.”

–GK Chesterton

Godsgapeach, I am going to have to get back to you on the weed wiper. My contact is not reachable at home.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

No problem. It's threatening rain tonight and there's supposed to be a better chance tomorrow.

I appreciate the help as always!

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Godsgapeach

“There are two ways to get enough: one is to accumulate more and more. The other is to desire less.”

–GK Chesterton

godsgapeach,
The answer is not what you want to necessarily hear. Reviewing the pic of the persimmon sprouts, the recommendation is to use the small sprayer instead of the weed wiper. Due to the amount of foliage and the height of the plants he feels that you will not get enough herbicide onto the bark portion of the the sprouts and onto the leaves with the weed wiper at this time of year. There was also a discussion regarding the mix having enough agitation in the weed wiper. Without adequate agitation the remedy could clog the applicator.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

It's not a problem Agman. We'll do what we have to--the goal is to get rid of the persimmons, not just try out the weed wiper.

Thanks again!

Oh, did you get any of that rain yesterday?

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Godsgapeach

“There are two ways to get enough: one is to accumulate more and more. The other is to desire less.”

–GK Chesterton

yes, we got some rain, maybe a 1/2 inch. However it remains cloudy and that has helped. The pastures look fairly good considering the little rain over the last 2 months and the time of year. I was enjoying the cool of the evening last evening and I took a pic of the herd. Here is what things look like

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

I'll be glad when I can enjoy seeing our herd in one place like that, Agman. I had to get 3 heifers out of my garden yesterday a.m. They were trying to finish off what the grasshoppers haven't eaten.

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Godsgapeach

“There are two ways to get enough: one is to accumulate more and more. The other is to desire less.”

–GK Chesterton

Wstevenl was kind enough to share the following information received from Greg Judy
"I just got a reply from Greg Judy... He said they require 2.4 acres per Animal Unit (1000lb) cow per year with no input other than fence and cows."
I decided to be more consistent and use the same "yardstick" and convert my operation into Animal Units also. I did the research and obtained the rating for beef animals converted to animal units. Then I did two different counts on the herd to get the best determination of what comprises the herd at this date. The results converts to 127.5 Animal Units. Using that data, I have done the calculations and concluded that I am able to rotationally graze here in western NC, growing zone 7, approximately 1 Animal Unit for 365 days/year on 1.26 Acres of mainly endophyte infected fescue and clover forage . I do feed salt and mineral supplement.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!