any ideas for converting to rotational grazing?

Not to jump into a fray here, but we're aren't planning on buying a tractor either. However, what we are going to do is buy a drag harrow and attach it to our old truck. It may or may not work, but it's worth a try to bust up very valuable cow patties and spread the wealth.....

There is no argument nor are tempers flaring. There is no reason for that. At most there is a debate as to what works and what does not. As mature individuals we all have the right to voice our opinions and to support our stand. Are we in agreement and can we go forth accordingly?

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

SusyTX
There is no need to buy a harrow. There are folks that take tires and slice them in half in order to make weights that will not hold water to weigh down plastic on ground silos. Provided you can cut some tires in such a manner and locate a piece of pipe for a tongue you can fabricate a good drag that will last for years. Using a few links of chain as couplers and some bolts, nuts and washers to secure the tire carcasses to each other these make great durable tools for breaking up the patties.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Sure thing.

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Chaffee, Mo

An old mattress box spring works good too, pulled behind any vehicle. You may have to tie a heavy log or 6x6 on it to get some weight depending on how much excess forage is sticking up.

Excellent ideas, thanks!

Agmantoo,

I appreciate your free advice here..... but just so you know.... if you ever wrote a book or made a video that sold for under $30 I'd probably buy it. I can accept the fact that some of my grazing info comes from people who farm whether or not they have other sources of income.

If all I got out of the book/tape was the knot for connecting polywire to perimeter fence I'd figure it would be worth at least half the price of admission.

Ed

I don't think this is an either or situation. There are more than one way to do many things. I bet Judy would think Agmantoo's operation is pretty impressive and vice versa. They both might want to do some things different doesn't mean right or wrong just different. My soil, moisture, weather,grass, cattle, soil insect, microbes ect would not exactly match anyone elses, why would my operation. What is the same is the goal of growing quality forage in a sustainable manner resulting maximum $, with healthy soil, grass and livestock. There is more than one way to skin a cat some more efficient than others.

A drag behind a 4 wheeler will spread a lot of manure in a short time.

I have a question regarding Greg Judy moving his cattle twice per day. He appears to have a surplus of forage and does not mind wasting (my term) forage and is satisfied with the cattle eating only the high end portion of the forage. (What he is doing does not meet the definition of mob grazing as I know it.) He encourages the trampling of the remainder. That being the situation, why does he move 2 times per day? It appears to me that a single move and an allocation of double the area would be more labor efficient. What am I missing?

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Afternoon All,
Agmantto I would have to say that the difference is. He is not there to practice as he preachs. As you know if you are gone you will preallocate the next moves and be a little generous. Imagine if you were there a week a month and someone else was doing your allocating. It makes life easier if you carry 70% of a animal load and allocate 130% per move so you are more worried about covering the whole property. Than getting the max out of it.
As I think you said a few pages ago the disuse will catch up with him in the long run and the money is in the book sales and not the farm.

A an aside Agmantoo did you recieve the PM I sent you about the hightop mower from my Canadian adventure.

SteveO

Check this out... A Note From Jim Gerrish...

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Chaffee, Mo

Sorry to stray from the current topic, but I had a question on watering. It sounds as if you pulled in pipe and set up watering stations where the paddoks are. In my situation I don't want to do anything perminanate, as my hopes are to increase the amount of land that I have and that would mean moving in the future. Since I am on a small scale at this point I was thinking of a portable water source that could be moved with an ATV and then filled with a tank as needed, but still move with the herd. Also what do you do for shade? I have been told by some people that cattle don't really need shade, by I believe that in my area they do (just by watching what is here). Since I don't have many trees, I was thinking of a portable shade structure also. I know moving all this would take extra time, but in the very least if I was to move it could come with me. Any thoughts?

Jim Gerrish and I are in sync. I remain uncertain in what Greg Judy is attempting to accomplish other than publicity.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Curtis B
I have my pipes supplying water to the herd buried, not in the paddocks but in the lanes that give access to the paddocks. This puts the lines out of harms way and provides cooler drinking water. Above ground lines here in the Summer heat the water to where one cannot tolerate the heated water when touched. I am attempting for the cattle to have access to water without traveling more than 800ft. 800 ft. is considered the magic number for cattle to go to water individually as opposed to a whole herd movement. A whole herd movement overwhelms most watering systems. Since your operation is subject to chance I suggest you consider only access lanes and let the cattle return to the nearest source of water rather than installing a system at this time. I provide shade to the herd during the hottest months by giving them access to wooded windrows and small plots of trees. July and August in NC are too hot without some shade IMO. I do not like stressing my cattle. I often read about feedlot cattle without shade dying in high heat in places like Texas. I do not want to replicate that.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

SteveO,
Where did you here that Judy was only around for 1 week a month?
I know from his talk that he has one 17 year old neighbor that works for him by moving cows.

Agmantoo,
I have read where Judy said that in the wet season he moves them more often to reduce pasture damage. He also said that plugging isn't as much of a problem in heavy rains anymore because the sword is so much thicker than in past years. I would guess that he may move them twice a day because they seem to eat two meals a day, that way they start with a "clean plate".

There is a dairy near us that moves cows 2 to 7 times a day (I don't know any details as to their thinking with this).

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www.franciscanfamilyfarms.com
Chaffee, Mo

I know why the dairy folks move frequently. Two reasons are to get a milking boost off the green forage and to maximize the use of the limited green forage available.

Pugging problems are significantly reduced when doing rotational grazing. Much of the water is absorbed quickly into the ground. I graze steep hillsides during wet periods as they do not get as soggy due to runoff.

SteveO, yes, I got the PM. I may have found a tool but I remain open to ideas.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

I was at the back of the farm today where the Red River Crabgrass is sown. It is beginning to go to seed with some of the seed ripening. I am going to give it another month to produce seed that should germinate next season before giving the cattle access. The RRCG is more than twice the height of native crabgrass IMO.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Afternoon all,
As per this qoute
Greg is absolutely convinced that there is no better way to get into the grazing business than to lease some fallow land, employ high density grazing, and use other people’s livestock to do it

It sounds like quite the deal
he owns 200 of 1600 based on what I can find out

he owns no cattle
And as I was told above it is managed by a 17 year old
is spread over 10 farms and 1600 acres
also has sheep pigs and other irons in the fire
A very very busy couple

So I agree he may be at home But who decides how far to move. They didn't clean up enough of yesterday evenings alotment so we give them a little less. Or the quality of forage changes.Or or or or we could go on for ever. The point is it is not a hands on operation each and every move. It's move it 5 posts once or twice a day.

A question though if you lease land and deplete it do you have to return it in the same condition? I say morally yes. But for thoughs that do how do you deal with that issue??

steveO

I'd say with rotational grazing you're more likely to improve it than deplete it. The cycle of growth and hard cutting will cause the roots to grow and die back, breaking up and increasing the deapth of the top soil. Grass grows mainly by converting mostly Carbon from CO2 using energy from the sun. That is then converted to beef. The cows waste also improves the soil. I suppose with each cow that leaves, there is some mineral loss. But probably not much. Infact, if you give your cows minerals, you might be adding the excess the cow takes in to the soil through the feces.