any ideas for converting to rotational grazing?

FarmerDavid

Here is a pdf that has some waterers for ideas. It downloads slowly.

http://www.mn.nrcs.usda.gov/technica...%20Systems.pdf

This link will/should open
http://www.giantrubberwatertanks.com...The%20Tank.htm

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

agmantoo,

If you get a chance can you help me with the fence layout on the picture I posted on page 86 of this thread?

Thanks

Look this over and see how it may adapt to your farm

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

ill have a look at these later. Part of my problem is that farm where my cattle are is 45 acres. 5 acres is the barn, old farm house were hopefully going to be moving to soon, and drive way. It was all in pasture when we bought it but im currently row cropping half, and whats not farmable remains in pasture so its alittle cut up. Its a pain in the butt, but the row crop is more profitable for me currently. I can see the cattle being more profitable once I have a more established herd but not at this time.

We have a first right of refusal on the rest of that section and a half section across the road. It is supposed to sell in approx. 5 years. The balance is mostly row crop ground.

I hope to put what was origionally in grass back to grass and probably some additional land if we are able to buy the rest.

Even with just the original part that we own now I can invision how I would use rotational grazing if it was all still in pasture. I hope to set up a rotational setup as is currently configured. I don't think that it will be as managed as yours is but maybe 2 acre paddocks. I need to build another pond and think that its location will cure most of the water issues.

I was out on it on the four wheeler yesterday and the 5 acres that it is currently in is to big. Places are ate into the ground while others aren't touched. Im also hoping to go to a corn-cover crop-corn rotation on the row crop ground and grazing the cover crop in the fall and winter when the weather permits. This would allow me to stock pile some fescue.

Even if you don't rotational graze this thread seems to be full of excellent pasture management advice. When we took over our farm 18 months ago it was nothing but 6 foot high ragweed and thin fescue stands. Even with last years drought the pastures are much improved simply by becoming friends with my brushhog.

I would think building a pond would be more expensive and less flexible then burring water pipe and putting hydrants in. I put in 6k feet of 2 inch PVC pipe and 20 hydrants so I now have 20 spots to hook up for water. I actually have more problems providing shade then I do water.

Do you catch many fish in that pipe?

FarmerDavid - you said build ANOTHER pond - just how many ponds do you need to catch fish? but no I don't catch fish in the pipes - good point.

One more running pipe would be Cheeper and add more flexibility I agree. The pond is as much for aesthetic and entertainment value as much as function.

My problem with routine mowing and dragging is that it reduces diversity. If the clumps of manure are left, the cows won't eat it on the first pass, but they will after it gets mature. This helps them balance their intake, as fresh growth is often too high in protein and old growth or hay will help them balance it out. Also, when you clip on a regular schedule, only the plant(s) that thrives on that recovery period will do well. As I've lengthened my recovery times many different species are coming in. I now have a lot more Orchard grass than before.

I am still spot mowing for some invasive stuff like brambles, but my vast ignorance of nature keeps me humble enough to limit my interference. Just the other day I moved the cows and watched a heifer graze up to a young (8" tall) thistle and rather than go around it... she ate it. All of it. Who am I to say what a weed is or isn't?

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With serendipitous timing, along comes this blog post: http://beefproducer.com/blogs-sake-e...ads-first-7245

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The problem I'm seeing so far is that most of my mature grass has very little if any blades even though it is tall a thick in some places. Most of the undergrowth is clover and various tender weeds that the cattle seem to like. But when they eat all that all new growth has to tiller out from the roots because there seems to be no blades.
On one place I clipped the seedheads off about 3 weeks ago and it had regrowed seedheads and all just like I had never clipped it, but it started putting on some blades and it seems to be more palatable to the cattle.
I 've been seeing this phenomenon for many years even fertilized hay fields now seems to be mostly stems. When I was a kid it wasn't that way...we would have hay up to your waist and thick blades almost knee high. I feel like it is from a lack of organic matter and it will take time to get back to that. In the mean time during the rebuilding phase I'm not so sure that clipping is a bad idea. At least before the first rotation.

I agree with what Gabriel is saying. I am seeing similar things. I don't mow. I can't mow. Most of my farm is hillside that is too steep to mow. I also don't drag for the same reasons. The small areas that I have mowed do not look any better than the areas I can not mow. Actually, most of the areas I have mowed are the ones with less variety and suffer more in late summer. We will see what happens this year. I have been doing this about 4 years now. I do some things a little different every year. When I started I wished I could mow it all, because I had so many weeds. Each year the grass gets thicker and more varieties come in. I see fewer weeds every year. My grass stays green longer and recovers faster. I am seeing new types of grass. I just found a whole bunch of Eastern Gamma Grass that I planted 3 years ago. The Big Bluestem and other NWSG I planted 3 years ago is coming in strong as well. It is looking great. I never knew it was there until late last year. I just grazed the pastures hoping it was down there somewhere. That is pretty exciting to me. July-September I have always struggled with. If the warm season grasses can take hold, that will eliminate that problem. I am trying to graze in favor of the warm season grasses.

My cows do eat the seed heads when they enter a paddock. Normally they seem to mix the seed heads and low growing clover and other grasses. Right now almost all of my paddocks, except the ones I was in less then 2 weeks ago, have the majority of the cool season grasses with seed heads. I do not think it is a problem to let your grass mature and get a seed head. I do not see any lag in performance when they are on mature pasture. Quite the opposite, the cows seem to do better and the calves seem to grow better. I would need a scale and weigh them monthly to really be able to tell, but they sure look good right now.

I also have a ton of dung beetles this year. The population seems to grow rapidly every year. I am seeing a lot of the small ones, which are the ones that lay eggs in the patty and would be hurt by dragging. I also have a lot of the medium sized tunnelers. I can't find too many of the big rollers, but the few I have seen are pretty neat to watch. You can't find a cow pie in my pastures that does not have at least some kind of dung beetle activity or the "drill marks" left by them. If I go back to where I was 30 days ago, you can't even find a cow patty - they are gone. Eaten by all natures workers. I will add that the grass from 30 days ago is ready again - but I won't be on it for another 30 days if I can help it. I need to do all I can to let the warm season grasses take hold, and they are coming in.

With that said, I think any kind of rotational grazing and any variation will produce better, thicker, stronger forage. If you like to mow - go for it. If you like to drag - go for it. It is still much better than continuous grazing.

In my opinion, this comes from healthy grass with a strong root, that has not been stressed. What I see is that stressed grass will put up a seed head right away, only making the bare minimum of leaves needed. It makes sense if you think about it. The grass is trying to protect itself, and when it is stressed the seed is the only way to reproduce. If you let the roots grow and mature, and then graze it, the grass will not be stressed. When it comes back next year, or even later the same year, it will be thicker and have more leaves. As an example, watch grass grow the year after a major drought. It is almost always just a seed head and just the bare minimum of leaves. This is true of any hay field the year after a drought. The first cutting after a drought year is always low in quality and quantity. By the second cutting, it will be producing well, if it has had moisture and hasn't been stressed. At least that is what I see.

I could use some advice on my pasture...I have approximately 25 acres securely fenced and 6 beef heifers and steers (this number will grow next year to at least 10-12) on a large paddock that is taking up about half of that. I'm giving them that much space because this pasture is loaded with goldenrod as well as orchard grass, timothy and ryegrass, and I want to make sure they have enough quality forage. I have another 20 acres adjacent to this that is not fenced. Neither of these areas have been grazed in 20 years or more, but have been brushhogged every couple years.

Today, I mowed (down to 8" or so) the lower ground that should remain moist and green in the worst of the summer heat and polywired them out of it...leaving them with 5 acres less room. Under this goldenrod is a fair amount of orchard grass.

My question is should I mow the snot out of the fenced area to add organic material to the soil and give room for the grasses that have been laying somewhat dormant for the last couple decades? The soil samples show a low pH (5.5-6.2) and the need for nitrogen, with phosphates and potash a bit on the low side, but not too bad. I probably won't have any use for the unfenced areas this year as I won't have time to fence it and the quality isn't there for haying. What should I do with that area to make it viable pasture/hay for next year beside applying lime which I plan to do this fall?

I've been reading this thread for a week now. I'm currently deployed to Africa with the National Guard, due home in about a month. I hope to apply these basic principles to my very small acreage (around two acres usable as pasture, after I clear the cedars off half of it) to at least cut down on the hay cost for my horses. I do reaalize some principles are different, and horses are pickier and harder on pasture than cattle, but it seems to be worth a try!

I will have to seed about an acre from whatever is growing under a dense cedar thicket. Have you used the seeder above enough to know if you still like it? With only two acres, and a strong, willing son, I'm hoping this can be my only seeder.

The seeder works fine. It is the same design as the old seeder from years ago with just a few updates. I plan on buying a second seeder to use solely for fertilizer. I often have small areas that for whatever reason need to have some attention and I do not want to use the farm machinery to replant. I will topdress my yard as needed with a little fertilizer using the hand seeder. The hand seeder is also great for putting out clover seed because the seeder can be easily regulated with the small seed. You may want to seed some alfalfa in your horse pasture. PS....Welcome to the site!

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Thanks, Agmantoo, I can't wait to get home and try to put this stuff to work. My son seeded an entire acre with one of the $5 Wal-Mart hand-held yard spreaders, so I think he'll be happy to get this one! If you seem to think I can spread alfalfa with it, it must be pretty capable, that stuff is tiny. I'll probably be able to put seed in no later than the first of August, although I think September is better timing. I plan to use a mix of 50% KY31 (no plans to breed the horses, so the endophyte doesn't worry me) and the rest a mix of ryegrass, alfalfa, and clovers. Not at all sure what is there now, but it got grazed to the dirt last fall, and has been untouched this year,since the animals are at my FIL's place.

SoldiersRest

I would go ahead with the liming now to be prepared for the seeding on the rye grass ( I use Marshall variety) and fescue in the Fall. I would like the phosphate and potash applied in the Fall also to get the roots established. Nitrogen application would be held off until Spring and I would go on the low rate to hold the top growth back and let the grasses get better established in event of drought. The early Spring planted legumes should make up for any deficiency once they take hold. My opinion is that it takes 3 years to get a good pasture established. You may consider having a sacrificial area set aside to the horses to lounge as they can be rough on pasture if the grazing is not controlled. On my many trips to Ky one thing that always gets my attention is the big well maintained barns and homes with large acreage pastures along the interstate with just a handful of horses and the many bare spots.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

With a ratio of 4 acres per animal and an allocation of half that attempting to get rid of golden rod I see a challenge. Discounting the set aside acreage, that remaining paddock is far too big to get under control by giving the animals access to the entire paddock. I agree with isolating the animals from the moist area that you clipped as that should provide grazing in a few months when you need it. My thoughts would be to allocate small areas, using the polywire, of the non clipped area and to mob graze. This practice will force the animals to trample what they do not want to eat and will prevent the animals from selecting the choicest forage without impacting the golden rod. If circumstances permit move the animals more frequently than once per day. Allocate roughly 2000 square feet of paddock to graze per day until you see how it goes.

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Agmantoo
If they can do it,
you know you can!

Thank you for the response agman. Since my last post I've already cut the paddock area roughly to around 5 or 6 acres, and mowed the rest of that first area (about 5 acres) down to about 8 inches. On your recommendation I will reduce their daily paddock size greatly. In the next couple days, 2000 sq. ft. will be difficult to attain logistically...however, I will try to get close to that asap.

In the meantime, I'm wondering what will benefit the remaining 30 acres the most. My instincts tell me to mow...and the areas that will not be used this year or not until later this year, clip low. I thought the areas that I will graze within the next several weeks to a month would benefit from a moderate clip in order to let the grasses peek out from the goldenrod canopy. Does this plan of action have merit or should I rethink this? Also, I would like to reseed at some point, but I'm not sure how well broadcasting would do as thick as the weeds/grass are. I don't really have any bare or semi-bare ground.

I appreciate the feedback. I've spent years (especially in my youth) doing the grunt work on farms, but I was never the person making these type of decisions.