any ideas for converting to rotational grazing?

agmantoo · #**2661** 03/09/13, 07:24 AM

CT ..... Cattle Today is a website consisting of mostly cattle producers using conventional methods.

CedarMoore · #**2662** 03/09/13, 10:15 AM

Thanks Ycan and Agman! My experience with daily moving of cattle began last year, and this was my second year of stockpiling fescue. So I am not disappointed at all that I just finished my stockpile of grass yesterday. I just see 3 or 4 inches of grass left in th fields, which equates to 300 to 600 pounds an inch per acre, and think "I could go a few more days/weeks without feeding hay." Last year I just went to the middle of January without hay, so again I am not disappointed. On to short ryegrass for a few days, and then hay. Thanks again.

ycanchu2 · #**2663** 03/09/13, 08:54 PM

Here is a interesting video I ran across......I 've heard Gabriel mention him Greg Judy

CesumPec · #**2664** 03/09/13, 11:03 PM

excellent info from Greg Judy, I learned tons, thanks ycanchu2

ATPFARM · #**2665** 03/10/13, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CesumPec

excellent info from Greg Judy, I learned tons, thanks ycanchu2

xcellent

CedarMoore · #**2666** 03/11/13, 10:19 AM

Ycan, I have seen this video and read several articles by Judy. I dont' basically disagree with what he says, with the exception of him saying that he has built 3 inches of topsoil in 4 years. From what I understand, the animals aren't on the land but once or twice a year. There is no way to build that much soil in 4 years.

He may have quit his day job to "farm" full time, but I'll bet most of his income come from selling books and giving speeches, not from from selling animals. I don't think much of his business model for making money. He has 1900 acres and runs 300 head of cattle and 300 head of sheep. I know not all the acreage is pasture, but it's still 1900 acres he leases or owns. Not many animals for the acreage. For me to follow Judy, I would have to decrease my stocking by one half or more and probably watch the Johnson Grass and thistles take over my farm. Stomping them down once or twice a year isn't going to keep them from seeding out.

I don't always agree with all of Agman's advice (matter of opinion, and what works for me, where I disagree), but based on his postings, he knows how to make money and at the same time build his topsoil as good or better than Judy. Just my 2 cents.

ycanchu2 · #**2667** 03/11/13, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CedarMoore

Ycan, I have seen this video and read several articles by Judy. I dont' basically disagree with what he says, with the exception of him saying that he has built 3 inches of topsoil in 4 years. From what I understand, the animals aren't on the land but once or twice a year. There is no way to build that much soil in 4 years.

He may have quit his day job to "farm" full time, but I'll bet most of his income come from selling books and giving speeches, not from from selling animals. I don't think much of his business model for making money. He has 1900 acres and runs 300 head of cattle and 300 head of sheep. I know not all the acreage is pasture, but it's still 1900 acres he leases or owns. Not many animals for the acreage. For me to follow Judy, I would have to decrease my stocking by one half or more and probably watch the Johnson Grass and thistles take over my farm. Stomping them down once or twice a year isn't going to keep them from seeding out.

I don't always agree with all of Agman's advice (matter of opinion, and what works for me, where I disagree), but based on his postings, he knows how to make money and at the same time build his topsoil as good or better than Judy. Just my 2 cents.

Agmantoo's advice and Greg Judy's advice are both right IMO. I don't think you can go wrong either way, they are basically the same with a slightly different approach. One of the biggest problems most people have is to start grazing too early in the spring...I did that last year. It seems to reason that letting that plant mature and develop a good root system would insulate it thru the summer months. letting it go to seed if it gets away from you may not be so bad. Often times the truth is so simplistic it is hard to grasp, especially when we have been indoctrinated that we have to fertilise or nothing will grow. Concerning Rotational grazing I'm not sure you can do it wrong....let it grow, graze it, and move em. Its a learning process for me and trying new things is sometimes good.
One of my biggest mistakes last year was bushhogging too much and too short. I thought i needed to even everything back up. I noticed that the higher I set my bushhog the faster it recovered. Greg Judy says don't bushhog at all....i guess that will be something to experiment with on part of my ground.

Gabriel · #**2668** 03/11/13, 08:12 PM

From http://www.greenpasturesfarm.net/blog.php?entr---=998 which is Greg Judy's blog.

Quote:

For years we ran a stock density of 16 to 20 head per acre with a two-day graze period. We never could control our weeds and always had rank uneaten grass when we moved them. We were on a 4 – 5 week rest cycle before that pasture was grazed again. As the grazing season progressed, the cattle would always leave the rank grass and weeds.

With our present heavy stocking density, everything is eaten or tromped flat on the ground. Our present rest period is 60 – 90 days;

It used to take 5 acres to run an animal unit for the season. Now we can run an animal unit on 1.5 acres.

Short on time or I'd address some more things.

ATPFARM · #**2669** 03/15/13, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CedarMoore

Ycan, I have seen this video and read several articles by Judy. I dont' basically disagree with what he says, with the exception of him saying that he has built 3 inches of topsoil in 4 years. From what I understand, the animals aren't on the land but once or twice a year. There is no way to build that much soil in 4 years.

He may have quit his day job to "farm" full time, but I'll bet most of his income come from selling books and giving speeches, not from from selling animals. I don't think much of his business model for making money. He has 1900 acres and runs 300 head of cattle and 300 head of sheep. I know not all the acreage is pasture, but it's still 1900 acres he leases or owns. Not many animals for the acreage. For me to follow Judy, I would have to decrease my stocking by one half or more and probably watch the Johnson Grass and thistles take over my farm. Stomping them down once or twice a year isn't going to keep them from seeding out.

I don't always agree with all of Agman's advice (matter of opinion, and what works for me, where I disagree), but based on his postings, he knows how to make money and at the same time build his topsoil as good or better than Judy. Just my 2 cents.

I too noticed the stocking rate..(Judy). suprising...!

agmantoo · #**2670** 03/15/13, 09:39 AM

Took the pic below on March 13. The cattle were removed at the end of Feb. As I mentioned earlier I was getting low on stockpiled grass and that at times I will, out of necessity, graze excessively short. This was the situation here. However, as can be seen the forage is recovering rapidly. I only attempt to accomplish this forage stretching practice on paddocks that I know were not stressed recently and where the soil is able to support such action. The recovery in the two weeks time is indicative to me of what good soil can accomplish.
any ideas for converting to rotational grazing? - Cattle

any ideas for converting to rotational grazing? - Cattle

CedarMoore · #**2671** 03/15/13, 10:59 AM

Gabriel, do you mobgraze like Judy? If he is mobgrazing and running a cow/calf on 1.5 acres, 365 days a year, I would like to know more. I had never heard his stocking rate until your post. You listen to his video and just assume that his stocking rate is around 5 acres per cow/calf with very long rotation periods. In fact, at one point in his video, he is critical of rotations of 8 times per year. Don't know how old the video is, maybe his stocking rates have increased over the years with improved soil.

Agman, thanks for sharing your picture. I always like seeing your place.

ramiller5675 · #**2672** 03/15/13, 02:58 PM

I've never seen where Judy is running a cow/calf pair on 1.5 acres. The numbers I've seen are somewhere around 2.4 acres per AU (which would be somewhere around 3.5-4 acres per pair depending on the size of his cows).

So if he has about 400 pairs, he would need about 1400-1600 acres (which is close to the numbers he gives on the amount of land he has).

Gabriel · #**2673** 03/16/13, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CedarMoore

Gabriel, do you mobgraze like Judy?

I will be doing so this year. I have not been able to up to this point, due to the low # of cows I had. I don't care what anyone says, you can't "mob" with two cows when there's no shade! With more cows you can make their pasture reach some shade. I did some last fall, seemed like it gave me the animal impact I was looking for but don't yet know how that will play out in the long run.

Quote:

In fact, at one point in his video, he is critical of rotations of 8 times per year.

Most people that I respect recommend 1 rotation for every ten inches of rainfall. /shrug

Quote:

I've never seen where Judy is running a cow/calf pair on 1.5 acres.

I just gave the link to his blog where he makes that claim. I'll ask some people who may know and get back to y'all.

ycanchu2 · #**2674** 03/16/13, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabriel

I will be doing so this year. I have not been able to up to this point, due to the low # of cows I had. I don't care what anyone says, you can't "mob" with two cows when there's no shade! I have a neighbor who put two horses inside 4 corral gates and moved them every day or two...in the summer though you would need a lane to shade and water. I think you could do two cows but give them an area no more than the average size living room. I like Agmantoo's idea of permanent lanes to shade and water. GJ makes his lanes as he goes....too much work IMO. Agman keeps his grass vegetative, while GJ lets it get mature..both seem to be succesful. With more cows you can make their pasture reach some shade. I did some last fall, seemed like it gave me the animal impact I was looking for but don't yet know how that will play out in the long run.

Most people that I respect recommend 1 rotation for every ten inches of rainfall. /shrug

I just gave the link to his blog where he makes that claim. I'll ask some people who may know and get back to y'all.

Back in the bible days they were supposed to let the land lay idle every 7th year...maybe we need to let a 7th part of our land at least go to mature seed every year. Something to think about.
Here is a round table talk with GJ part one...there is about 12 parts.

Go for 300 · #**2675** 03/17/13, 11:51 PM

Those 12 videos are worth watching I would say. We are going to be bringing in abou 100 stockers this spring/summer. Part of the plan is to strip/rotational lay graze them through a grass/alfalfa stand. I am thinking that we well have plenty of grass to cut that hay field for first cutting in the first of June and then have it ready to graze the second week of July when the grass starts to slow down. It will add about two weeks to the rotation and ,keep them on good feed. Anyone ever rotated with side roll (wheel line) irrigation? The pasture is all set up with k-line pods so no worries about the cattle beating them up, but it may be necessary to run the wheel line behind them a couple strips to keep it from burning up.

And the other question is would I, should I, clip the alf/grass when they move off or let it ride as the mob guys do?

mulemom · #**2676** 03/18/13, 09:23 PM

Thanks to all for the response to my question on coyotes. Agmantoo-in your march 13 pic had you drug that field? It looks really good. We're

: deep in mud-even at a walk the cows leave ankle deep holes. I just keep telling myself the holes will trap rain when we need it.

ycanchu2 · #**2677** 03/19/13, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Go for 300

Those 12 videos are worth watching I would say. We are going to be bringing in abou 100 stockers this spring/summer. Part of the plan is to strip/rotational lay graze them through a grass/alfalfa stand. I am thinking that we well have plenty of grass to cut that hay field for first cutting in the first of June and then have it ready to graze the second week of July when the grass starts to slow down. It will add about two weeks to the rotation and ,keep them on good feed. Anyone ever rotated with side roll (wheel line) irrigation? The pasture is all set up with k-line pods so no worries about the cattle beating them up, but it may be necessary to run the wheel line behind them a couple strips to keep it from burning up.

And the other question is would I, should I, clip the alf/grass when they move off or let it ride as the mob guys do?

You could try some both ways and see. last year I noticed the grass in the corners of my fields where I couldn't get the bushhog into was noticeably bigger going into the fall than the rest of the field.

randyandmegs · #**2678** 03/19/13, 08:24 AM

I have seen that as well in areas but I'm wondering if the bigger grass has the same quality. I never had time this winter to do forage samples for quality testing to be able to tell. I have read in several articles as far as infected fescue goes the Endophyte is higher in the seed heads of the mature grasses.

Gabriel · #**2679** 03/19/13, 10:31 AM

I would let it go without clipping. It's been a hay field, so there's probably not enough weeds to worry about. Even if there were, the next time you come through you can trample them if you run the appropriate density.

Taller forage gives some advantages: better soil protection from the harsh elements, it feeds the soil when trampled in a way that I think mowing does not achieve, and it serves as a last ditch stockpile as long as it's not poisonous. It also saves the cost of running that tractor.

Here's a reply that I got from someone who interned at the Judy's:

Quote:

I interned on Greg's farm from Jan '12 to Dec '12. The drought
started there in '11. Almost no regrowth in the summer of '11, with
enough fall growth to supplement with hay on stockpile with no destocking.
We started '12 with about 250 head total. By the end of '12 we were
down to 80 pairs with a few older bulls, a few yearling bulls and a
few heifers. About 180 head total.
This is on 1000 acres but only about 600 of grass, the remainder was
timber that was mostly cedars.
The last I heard he was supplementing hay on stockpile, about 1 bale
per day, and the cows are fat and happy.

ycanchu2 · #**2680** 03/19/13, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by randyandmegs

I have seen that as well in areas but I'm wondering if the bigger grass has the same quality. I never had time this winter to do forage samples for quality testing to be able to tell. I have read in several articles as far as infected fescue goes the Endophyte is higher in the seed heads of the mature grasses.

Do you have refractometer? i bought one back in the spring(their not too expensive). 12 is considered good on the index line,..... up in the fall after several freezes I got some readings of fescue and orchardgrass up in the 20's.
Here are a couple of good articles:
http://www.articlesbase.com/environm...e-1116237.html

http://www.articlesbase.com/environm...s-1092538.html