The issue down in California with RuAnn Dairy, was that the animal was tested at a younger age. She was later tested, and she came back positive. There were animals moved mostly between Maddox Dairy, and RuAnn Dairy. I also heard it was a strain that can be tested for, however you can have a negative return. The cow as 8 years old I beleive, it was tested when it was 2-3 years old.


So yes, it is possible TB could be tested for, and you might not get a reaction. Animal spreads, and there is no way of knowing. No form of testing or NAIS can prevent that.


Jeff

JeffNY wrote, "Comparing a small disease outbreak, to a region wide disease outbreak, then assuming that it would work the same? Sorry, but a region wide outbreak has the one problem of actual containment.. Its why id like to see the system actually tested, so it can proove all us naysayers that it in fact prevented a large kill zone, it was fast, efficent etc.. Because a small outbreak, well thats nothing compared to a large scale outbreak.. NAIS will trace all day long, but wont stop it."

I doubt you'd be happy with any situation the USDA handled. If there was a wide spread disease outbreak that included 100 farms and 10 states that required the testing and distruction of 10,000 cows, you'd say the kill zone was large, even though without NAIS their might have been a kill zone that included 1000 farms, 20 states and 100,000 cows.
While you claim to be satisfied if the USDA would actually use NAIS to complete a trace back and eradicate a disease in those areas identified. But when I provide you with a couple real life actual cases, you raise the requirement to large scale. If USDA is doing their jobs, there shouldn't be any large scale disease outbreaks.

Since NAIS is designed to be a time saver, that allows for a focused response, it seems doubtful that unless we were hit with a widespread bio-terriorism event, there would'nt be a region wide kill zone.

Allen writes "And since the cattle are unloaded and inspected and held at the border then reloaded on the US side there is probably no smuggled Mexicans in the trucks."

Well, gee, Allen. If the TB infected illegal aliens aren't coming across in the UDSA inspected cattle trucks, do ya suppose they get into this country some other way?

JeffNY wrote:"I also heard it was a strain that can be tested for, however you can have a negative return."

Tests for most diseases can show a false positive and there is a small chance for a false negative. When you get a positive for TB, you don't call it a positive, it is a "suspect". At the time of the TB test, all suspects would get a vial of blood drawn and shipped to a Lab for further tests, more expensive and more accurate.

Enough already! NAIS is coming like it or not!!!!!!!

I know it is, francismilker. I'm just trying to put a little Vasoline on it.

Show some proof of that.. Show me that it would lessen the outbreak and kill zone.. Because so far, you have gone on a wim, vs actual facts. A disease with NAIS in place could spread to 20 states, and involve 100,000 cows.. Some diseases like it or not, spread regardless of how strict a program might be.

As I said, show me proof to back up your claim, that it would lessen the area involved.


Jeff

OK, we know what an atomic bomb does to one city, but it has never been proven on a large scale so the effects of nuclear warfare are untested and therefor we can't judge the effectiveness of such a weapon?
First you say it can't work. I list a couple examples. Now you want proof of a large scale outbreak. I can give you proof it works on a state wide scale, but you want more.

How can you expect proof of an actual event for a program that is just now getting rolling? I guess you need to grasp the concept and I don't think you have.

Diseases do spread, no matter what. But once discovered we can stop the spread of most diseases by stopping the movement of all potentially exposed animals. If we don't know where some of our recent purchases have been, our farm gets added to the list of potentially exposed. The more animals that fall into that " unknown place of origin" or "untraceable" the larger the number of farms placed on quarantine.

Without a grid system to place animals inside a specific area (that's where your premise ID comes in) the quarantine would have to be by zip code or county wide or some other method to insure that all potentially exposed animal within an area are quarantined.

In cases that testing cannot be done on live animals, potentially exposed animals could be put down. The more potentially exposed animals there are, the larger the kill zone.

If a disease had, as you suggested, spread to 20 states, 100,000 cows would be a small quarantine. Without NAIS we could expect a much higher number.

This is what I am talking about. How do you know that?


Jeff

They already had measures in place before NAIS, There where government regulations that did require certain testing for market products or raw material (in this case live animals) that had to be certified by the tester before it could go to market, all NIAS is is big business like Cargill who want it so it makes their work easier and so they don't need as many employees to do the job and it helps them get paid more for doing less.
And some of these big businesses are even public businesses, quite a few are private.
So in all reality it is some rich people's idea on how to make more money for themselves and kill the competition so to speak.
WE DON'T NEED NAIS!
The market testing requirements have been there long before this and if people did their jobs right there wouldn't be such a big problem with outbreaks, but there's people who are paid off to let that one heard go to market which didn't pass inspection but still looks healthy, and low and behold there's a case of hoof and mouth a month later.
We don't need more bureaucratic baloney, all we need is people just doing their jobs and doing them with integrity and honesty.

This is the part you just can't seem to wrap your mind around.
If a disease was found in 20 states and there wasn't a way to ascertain what cows came from where, all the cows from each of those states would be possible suspects and therefore, all the farms in each state would not be allowed to move any cows. If it were something like TB, nothing would move until each cow in each of the 20 states was tested for TB. You are now talking about millions of cows and a shut down lasting up to a year. If it were a disease that could only be tested by killing the animal, you are talking about costs running into the billions of dollars.

With NAIS, they know what cows came from where. They know what cows were at what county fair, livestock auction or who's farm, ranch or feedlot. They would know with a fair degree of certainty which cows were not in any way exposed and which ones have the potential of being exposed.

Just those that have animals that could have been exposed are the focus. Only those farms that have potentially exposed animals would be subject to quarantine, testing and possible killing.

How do I know that? I have grasped the concept, I see how it works. I understand the plan.

Let me try with another example. Let's say I'm selling peanut butter. I sell to 20 companies. Let's say you sell peanut butter and sell to 20 different companies. One of my customers sells to a grocery store that discovers it is contaminated with salmonella. Since we know who sold the grocery store the tainted peanut butter and we can trace back to me, they would include all 20 of my customers and all of the places they marketed their peanut butter in a quarantine and recall.

If there were no record of who sold what to who, as is the case in most livestock sales, they would have to pull all peanut butter off the shelves and you'd be out of business, even though the contamination wasn't associated with you in any way.

By being able to focus, thru trace back, the rest of the peanut butter industry can continue to market a good product. This limits the recall to just the products that are potentially contaminated, greatly reducing the "kill zone".

I know peanut butter is brown and while some cows are brown, some are black and white, plus each jar of peanut butter does not have a RFID ID inside, making this analogy an example of trace back that differs in many ways from NAIS. But the concept is the same. While it does use a data base, it really isn't rocket science.

Again haypoint, your going on a theoretical assumption, vs actual facts. Untill its tested, we simply will not know how it works. Using Michigan is not a big example.


The strain of TB here in NY found in the domestic deer herd is bovine TB. They are trying to erradicate it..


Funny they were able to find it, without any NAIS. Oh wait, they TESTED for it... If a major outbreak occured, and its hoof and mouth, they wont simply go "oh look this cow is fine, this cow is fine". This has been untested.


Jeff

Zorro Bones, you have every right to be a ramblin' man and ramble on. Looks like you are exercising that right.
As Jeff and I continue to beat this dead horse, I find your comments interesting.

That this web site contains hundreds of postings on NAIS and you are still railing about the big guy putting the little guy out of business and the government in bed with big business.

This is the same ground that has been plowed a hundred times over all ready.

If I were to submit comments like yours, I'd get accused of trolling. But I'll assume that you believe the things you wrote here.


Here is Zorro Bones entire post, with mu comments in bold:"They already had measures in place before NAIS. There is no effective measure in place, none. There where government regulations that did require certain testing for market products or raw material (in this case live animals) that had to be certified by the tester before it could go to market, There still is, but it would drive everyone out of business if we each had to test every animal for everything before it went to market all NIAS is is big business like Cargill who want it so it makes their work easier and so they don't need as many employees to do the job and it helps them get paid more for doing less. Cargill isn't the only place benefiting from RFID. Cargill could have their own system and lock the little guy out. Is that what you want?
And some of these big businesses are even public businesses, quite a few are private.
So in all reality it is some rich people's idea on how to make more money for themselves and kill the competition so to speak. No, this is a plan that includes everyone and levels the playing field so the little guy can compete.
WE DON'T NEED NAIS! Yes we do.
The market testing requirements have been there long before this and if people did their jobs right there wouldn't be such a big problem with outbreaks, If you think that the only farmers that have a problem with disease are folks that aren't doing their jobs right, You are wrong. There are plenty of farms that discovered a disease that were doing their jobs right. but there's people who are paid off to let that one heard go to market which didn't pass inspection but still looks healthy, and low and behold there's a case of hoof and mouth a month later. Just where do you come up with this stuff?
We don't need more bureaucratic baloney, all we need is people just doing their jobs and doing them with integrity and honesty.? Oh, look! There's Lassie waiting at the end of the driveway.

Jeff, you can't have it both wsays. You don't want to try this program, while you base your refusal on the fact that it hasn't been tested on a large scale.

"Using Michigan is not a big example."
Tell that to the hundreds of farmers that lost their TB free status and couldn't ship out of state. Tell that to the Vets that tested for TB every day for over a year in the state. Tell that to the hundreds of farmers that are still in business because their markets are opening up for their cows because the NAIS program is providing the confidence buyers need to buy from Michigan.


The fact that bovine TB was found in deer in New York isn't proof that NAIS doesn't work or that there is another way to track disease.

JeffNY:"Funny they were able to find it, without any NAIS. Oh wait, they TESTED for it... "

They tested for it? Check your facts. A hunter found something wrong with the deer he shot and it was tested.

Do you want to buy cattle from the area where that deer was shot? Me neither.
If cattle in this area are tested and a few show positive, wouldn't you want to know if any of those cows you have in your barn came from that area? You could be in the saame situation Michigan farmers were in a decade ago. Loss of TB-free status is the loss of any out of state sale. If NAIS were in place, the only suspects would be cattle that had been in the area that deer lived. But if there is no way to show what cows were where, the whole state will need to be tested. Good luck.

"Funny they were able to find it, without any NAIS. Oh wait, they TESTED for it... If a major outbreak occured, and its hoof and mouth, they wont simply go "oh look this cow is fine, this cow is fine". This has been untested."

OK, I'll use your example. If there is a case of Hoof and Mouth in this country, will the USDA order the killing of every cow in the entire country, or will they focus on the herds that the known infected cows came from or crossed paths with? Oh, I know, they'll let the big farms go aand kill the cattle of the small farmer. Jeez!

With something as serious as Hoof and Mouth, there isn't time to be monkeying around. They'll need to be able to use sound data to locate potentially contaminated cows quiickly. If I bought cattle from a herd that has Hoof and Mouth disease, I can expect to lose my herd in the eradication efforts. If I have had no connection to the diseased animals, NAIS will provide that assurance, I can depend on being left alone.

Do you contradict yourself often? You just said what I said, they tested for it. I checked my facts, and you just prooved me right. They tested for it.. You feeling ok?


Jeff

Haypoint you made me think of something. Testing... This incident in NY actually goes to show that the lack of testing PRIOR to shipping an animal, has resulted in a problem that could become quite burdensome for some. The fact the animal was ONLY tested because it was acting strange, is how many animals will be detected even with NAIS.. By that time, the disease could have already spread, creating more of a problem.

When you consider the fact if the deer were tested prior, it would have been detected. Perhaps avoiding this issue. Same goes with RuAnn dairy. Perhaps if testing was in place before those "mexican cattle" were allowed on the farm, there wouldn't have been any issues. Testing might be a pain, but testing AFTER it is already an issue, is the only time the tracing can begin.


Its why the NAIS system is flawed.

Jeff

Haypoint you made me think of something. Testing... This incident in NY actually goes to show that the lack of testing PRIOR to shipping an animal, has resulted in a problem that could become quite burdensome for some. The fact the animal was ONLY tested because it was acting strange, is how many animals will be detected even with NAIS.. By that time, the disease could have already spread, creating more of a problem.

When you consider the fact if the deer were tested prior, it would have been detected. Perhaps avoiding this issue. Same goes with RuAnn dairy. Perhaps if testing was in place before those "mexican cattle" were allowed on the farm, there wouldn't have been any issues. Testing might be a pain, but testing AFTER it is already an issue, is the only time the tracing can begin.


Its why the NAIS system is flawed.

Jeff

No offense but you have a double post JeffNY.

jeff, you've had a week to come with an answer on where we are going to come up with all the needles to do your testing.... where will the needle factory(s) be built? and who will pay for them????

francismilker
Thank you for you comment that it is coming regardless! We need to call a truce! The consumer wants it, the Gov is going to implement it and we are going to get a number in time. Does it matter where the number comes from, tax number pin, drivers license, SS #, NAIS ? I have learned to concern myself with those things I can impact. This is an issue that I cannot influence so I will fret elsewhere.

I've already addressed a program that would take care of this, but obviously you skirted over it. A program called NYSCHAP, which involves your herd in testing.. Who said there needs to be a needle factory? The last I knew, there are plenty of needles to go around, and it seems your more concerned over a needle factory, than disease itself.


Here is what's amusing. People want a program that tracks their animals. Yet they dont want to do any testing to prevent the disease. Ever heard of the saying "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure?". The TB issue in NY would have likely been prevented, if the animals were tested prior to coming to NY. But because people dont care to test, look at what happens. How NAIS would have prevented that is a good question. But see, it isn't to stop or prevent disease. Only to trace animals.


So let me ask you redhogs. Who will enforce NAIS? And how?


Jeff

fine jeff, I'll answer your question.... to show you how it's done...

the question is how and who will enforce NAIS.....

the answer is easy and direct, ultimately it will be privately enforced....

any business that deals with livestock will be inspected by the usda.... this means the sale barns, slaughterhouses, vets, rodeos, and fairs.... these are already inpsected and the manpower is available to do so.... they will not inpect every animal, but the private groups will by demanding eartags or premise ID's..... for example.... Your milk truck will deliver you a letter saying we need your premise ID on file by 1-1-10, the letter will give you a number to call or fax....

the usda can do a spot audit and check for compliance very quickly, If they find the a dairy has not filed and is still selling milk, the plant will be fined....

this allows for compliance without the nasty PR of coming to your farm... and without the needed additional manpower.

You have this idea that it has to be 100% to be successfull, we will have increased biosecurity with the implementation of the program in short order... you will register or hide underground... a win - win for biosecurity....

Jeff, you will register..... given the choice of no milk check or register.... you will register.... No bad press, no show down with the government, you will just fax the paper and be done with it.

How many needles will it take per month???? .... now, answer my question

As I have said, and I will say it once again. NAIS will not diminish disease chance. There are plenty of diseases that could be passed to a farm, even with NAIS. One is TB, another nasty one, is BVD-PI cows. You could pick up BVD-PI at an auction barn VERY easily, as none of those animals are tested for the disease. They are however tested for it before state fairs, and even our county fair.. It is a good requirement as that disease can ruin your herd. Again, biosecurity isn't increased by simply implementing NAIS on your farm. Implementing testing ALONG with NAIS, will increase your bio-security. Ask yourself, if you bring in a few animals untested, and they could be carrying TB, or some other disease. How does that enhance your bio-security?

That is bordering communism, do as the government says or else. Because milk is pasteurized, and is touted as being safe. Obviously it isn't, if they do go that route. Also enforcing it via the private sector is going to require a lot of $$$. The farmer is going to incure more expensive for a program that doesn't prevent disease. The farmer would be best to spend that money on testing, than NAIS. Atleast through testing, you can identify disease, and cull animals that might have something easily spread (like BVD-PI). Someone posted a link stating it has cost over 350 million in Australia to farmers, if true, thats not good.




That will depend how big your herd is. Needles are very inexpensive, when compared to the result you would get if your herd ended up having a BVD-PI outbreak, or TB.. Something easily tested for... NAIS will trace it back (even though your herd is infected already), but do you realise what either of those diseases could do to your herd, if it spread?


Jeff

An Ounce of Prevention Is Worth a Pound of Cure.

I don't have fax capabilities. I know many folks with critters who don't like nor have computers.
In this fast paced world, using "snail mail" is the only option for some.
What happens if you can't fax or email??

If all the animals are tagged (not just in "groups") then it shall be fair. Then you can literally track each animal, not just pen or group so-n-so.
Cost effective for the larger places? Doubtful.

Bio security is nill...people track what they have from thier farm wherever they go...workers, too. (I know places that do NOT use shower in/shower out. For shame!)
Animals raised in confinement or large, close groups have less immunity than those raised on pasture with room to roam.
No different than kids being cooped up inside all the time versus kids that get out and roam around.

Havent read the whole thread.... but from what I have read.... Jeff is right...

JKB

Jay, Don't worry, all cattle get tagged, large groups and small. The only exception would be the tiny percentage that are kept together from birth to death. That is either a small group or a large group. While I'd like to think that pasture raised animals have more immunity than confinement, I'm not sure that's ever been proved. Pasture raised are exposed to more disease, so I guess they might build up more resistance. I doubt there is more disease in confined livestock, because they seldom get exposed to diseases.
Tagging animals with a RFID is different depending on the specie. The horse folks are leaning towards an implant while ear tags for cattle are the norm. I think reporting the sale and purchase would have differences, too. The system for cattle in Michigan is simple. You don't need a computer. If you sell thru any of the Livestock Auctions, they take care of it. If you sell out of state, it is done with the Health Certificate. For private sales, you can use your phone. No one needs a FAX machine or computer. It really isn't hard or expensive.

JKB07, it would be hard to decide who's "right" without knowing what NAIS is, how it works and then reading thru the 4 or 5 Homesteadingtoday threads on the NAIS topic. This thread is actually about the requirements for showing livestock at 4H fairs and exhibits. It has shifted to totally NAIS many pages ago. Since Jeff has made many statements withing this thread, I'd like to ask you if you think he is right in all of his posts, the last few or were you just jumping in on his last post?

Jeff, if TB and BVD were the only diseases that cattle get, I'd be able to see your point of testing instead of tracking disease. But there are many others, so testing every cow or every pig for a dozen of the more common livestock diseases becomes impractical. Testing is not the answer when a new disease crops up. Take Avian Influenza (bird flu) for example. Before that strain appeared, there was no test for it. People would be moving fully tested fowl all over the place, spreading the disease everywhere. With a tracking system, once the disease was identified, exposed birds could be located and the flocks that those birds went to could be tested. Requiring the testing of every chicken in this country (billions?) because of a few sick chickens in a farmers market in San Diego is not a reasonable/feasible method for disease control. Tracking the AI chickens back to where they came from provides a place to trace forward to every farm that bought from them. Locating the source and then locating the potentially exposed animals narrows the focus of the outbreak and allows quicker testing of potentially exposed animals. Regional or state-wide quarantines is expensive to the producers (farmers) and unfair to those that haven't been anywhere near the exposure.
That crap about what Australia's NAIS costs or how poorly is works was effective scare tactics/urban myths only until we've seen it work in this country. No longer do we need to depend on some anonymous posting about something half a world away. Michigan (and others) have it in place and it is cheap and runs smoothly. The cat is out of the bag and it is a tabby not a bob.
By driving the untraceable animals out of commerce, the underground that Redhogs refers to isn't going to co-mingle with the legitimate livestock. That improves bio security by reducing the mixing of livestock. The traceable kept separate from the underground.

Ask yourself if you bring in cattle tested for a host of diseases, but they have a disease that you didn't test for or weren't ware of, how does testing prevent disease? Testing can not prevent disease. It is impractical to test for every disease known to man and even if you could, there are diseases that cannot be tested for while the animal is alive. When that disease shows up at a slaughterhouse, all the testing in the world won't slow the spread of that disease. We need to know where it came from to keep those animals from being moved to other farms, spreading the disease to other farms.


NAIS will not prevent disease any more than testing will. It will limit the spread. We've been thru that discussion a few times already.


Right now, there is a new horse disease. It didn't exist in this country, so no one was testing for it. Now the USDA has the task of tracking down every exposed horse. Some of this disease spread has been thru semen. Records need to be poured over. Some may not want to reveal the names and locations of exposed horses. While this disease was caught early and there is no huge epidemic, it is a costly search process. If NAIS had been place the task would have been faster and perhaps more complete. While many of the horses involved already have the RFID implant, many others don't. Testing wouldn't have prevented this and the USDA trace back will limit further exposures. Here is what Michigan horse owners have gotten:







Dear Michigan equine stakeholder:
SUBJECT: Contagious Equine Metritis - Michigan Update
As the investigation on Contagious Equine Metritis (CEM), a sexually transmitted
Foreign Animal Disease (FAD) of horses caused by Taylorella equigenitalis, continues,
MDA will provide periodic updates. CEM once confirmed is easily controlled, is
treatable with antimicrobials, and does not affect humans.
The United States Department of Agriculture (USDA) Animal and Plant Health
Inspection Service (APHIS) Veterinary Services (VS) continues to conduct the
epidemiological investigation and has identified 28 mares in Michigan that have been
exposed to CEM positive stallions or semen, 14 of which have been confirmed
pregnant.
USDA VS field veterinarians have been assigned to the cases and are conducting the
investigations which include quarantining the mares, interviewing the owners, testing for
CEM, and reporting the results. Any mares that test positive will receive treatment. If
we find a CEM positive stallion we will make a formal announcement, but will not
identify the horse or owner in a public statement as that information is protected under
Act 466, the Animal Industry Act. The stallion will receive treatment and owners of
mares exposed to CEM positive stallions or semen will be contacted privately.
The following information is from USDA VS:
As of January 16, 2009, a total of nine stallions have been confirmed as positive for
CEM by USDA’s National Veterinary Services Laboratories. Four of the infected
stallions are located in Kentucky (three Quarter Horse stallions and one Paint stallion),
three are in Indiana, one is in Texas and one is in Wisconsin.
All three Indiana Paint stallions and the Texas Quarter Horse stallion were resident in
2008 on the central Kentucky premises where the initial CEM detection occurred, but
the newly detected positive Wisconsin stallion has not been on the Kentucky premises.
Michigan equine stakeholder
January 20, 2009
Page 2
The Wisconsin stallion was co-located during the 2007 breeding season, on a facility in
Wisconsin, with one of the three positive stallions currently in Indiana. He is a Friesian
stallion imported in late 2004 from the Netherlands and reportedly was resident in
California for the 2005 and 2006 breeding seasons before moving to Wisconsin in
October 2006.
In addition to the 9 positive stallions, the locations of 326 exposed horses have now
been confirmed. The total of 334 horses includes 43 stallions and 291 mares located in
39 States.
There are 11 States known to have positive or exposed stallions: Alabama, Florida,
Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky, Louisiana, Mississippi, Ohio, Tennessee, Texas, and
Wisconsin. The number of exposed stallions continues to increase, most recently with
13 additional stallions determined to have been exposed to known CEM positive
stallions. The exposures were primarily through co-location at breeding facilities during
either the 2008 or 2007 breeding season.
There are 37 States known to have exposed mares: Arizona, Arkansas, California,
Colorado, Connecticut, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas,
Kentucky, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana,
Nebraska, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio,
Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas,
Utah, Virginia, Washington, and Wisconsin. There are 43 additional exposed mares still
actively being traced.
All known CEM-positive horses, and all known exposed horses that have been located,
are currently under quarantine or hold order. Testing and treatment protocols are being
put into action for all located horses.
Testing and sample collection protocols:
The CEM testing protocol and reference information for testing supplies has been
distributed to state and federal veterinarians.
Just a reminder to horse owners: if a private practice veterinarian collects samples from
exposed horses, the cost of the farm visit and collection will not be covered by MDA or
USDA but will be the responsibility of the client. Sample submissions need to follow
protocol for chain of custody which requires a regulatory official or approved courier
delivered samples.

It will not limit the spread of disease. That is a unfounded statement. Here is why.. When a disease crops up, it becomes an issue, if an animal is a typhoid mary, that animal will spread the disease and not a soul will know, till its too late.


NAIS will not limit anything. It only allows traceability.. The animal is being traced, NOT the disease. In otherwords, the disease doesn't have an RFID tag. If we could track the disesase itself, yes it would be limited.


Jeff

Jeff, I think you are beginning to grasp the concept. Since we can't tag the disease, we can limit it's spread by tracking the infected and potentially infected carrier of the disease.

If the disease is in the animal, tracking the animal tracks the disease. When a disease crops up, knowing which animals were potentially exposed reduces the size of the quarantine. Without traceability every animal in the nation would be suspect, yours and mine. I don't want the intrusion if there is no way my herd was exposed.

Yes, a typhoid Mary will spread the disease, until the disease is discovered. Then trace back tells who was spreading it and then trace forward shows who has been exposed. Without a way to identify just those that were potentially spreading it and those that were potentially exposed, we'd have to shut down everything and begin the process of testing everything.

For now, let's look at the peanut butter salmonella problem that's going on now. When the tainted peanut butter was discovered, it was traced to one big plant. Then the "trace forward" was done. Every wholesale buyer was contacted and then the products that they made with that company's peanut butter were pulled.

Wal Mart is able to keep most of their peanut butter on the shelves because their peanut butter comes from India or China. Food products like peanut butter, spinach and strawberries are traceable in ways not possible with livestock. It would be a waste to throw out all peanut butter and peanut butter products that were not associated with the processing factory that had the salmonella.
By being able to focus on just the products from the source of the outbreak, USDA can turn their attention on those products.

Likewise, it would be needlessly expensive to quarantine and shut down thousands of farms that were not exposed to diseased livestock.

I understand the concept, problem is, there is a major flaw. An animal can spread disease without anyone knowing. THEN when it crops up, it is reported (if it is).. THEN they track. By the time they track it, it could already be a bigger problem. They do not track the disease, the animal they track can spread the disease to others, who spread it, and it continues. Finding the source, will not stop the problem of it spreading, especially if it has already left the farm.


Testing prior to shipping, would be another barrier.. As I said, diseases like BVD, can be a problem, and they aren't a disease they are concerned about.


Here is what I find odd. In this country we do not eat horse, yet they want to track the horse population. I remember you saying "consumer confidence". The last I knew, we didn't eat horse, so consumer confidence does not play into that sector. The reason for NAIS is becuase of the madcow scare a decade ago or so. The beef market is the reason for it, horse is not beef, its meat, but we do not eat horse or export horse meat..

Sounds more like a way to keep track of the numbers on your farm.. Because if you are enrolled, you tag your animals, individually. Of course the large CAFO's dont have to.


Jeff

Why do you find it "odd"? NAIS is to Trace Back Diseases, and being in the food supply or not Has Nothing to do with it NAIS is a Trace Back System for Animal Diseases, whether it is in the Food Supply or not~! Period.
And I have put this on here time and time again, this is why horses are included.

jeff, you are advertising how little you know about this topic.... it was started with the pork lobby, years before mad cow... psuedorabies was the main disease that got people talking traceback in the pork circles... Madcow, has been a disease to get the pork and cattle farmers on the same page....

Jeff your individual tesing idea has not been thought out very well...


when a local farmer sells 30,000 day old chicks are they exempt from testing, because in 8 weeks they will be sold again, by yet another farmer..... not a corporation, just a large farmer... do we test these 30,000 chickens twice....

what about the other 20 million chickens will they are be individually tested???

what about feeder pigs, some are sold at 13 days old.... will these be tested....where do you put them while you wait for the test results, a sow farm would need to build a nursery to hold the pigs while the test results are processed.... would these pigs need to be retested in a few months when they are sold again by yet a different farmer...

as to your problem with the horse's inclusion .....lepto, read about it


tell us how this works....

Well,
This is my take, I live in Michigan under manditory RFID. I agree with the concept of tracking cattle ( as we all know in a 12 month period a bull could have been to 12 different states). What i dont like is that it is manditory, people who oppose the use of electronic devices I.E (amish) have been left out. I look at this like CARFAX, people will pay more for a car that they know the history on, as opposed to not knowing anything about. My fear is that this is the prelude to THE TAXING of cattle. Once the system is in place, they pass legislation them mail the bill. We as Americans have seen it time and time again. Remember the INCOME TAX was never supposed to go over 3%, social security number was only going to be needed when it was time to collect benifits(now you cant even get a phone in your name with out it. My point is while i am ok with RFID, it should never be manditory, cause as we all know once they have power it is always ABUSED............................................ .

I think if you'd check, the Amish issue is being taken care of.
NAIS is not the prelude to tagging humans, tracking the movement of cattle, taxing cattle or any of the other nonsense spread by the fear mongers.
I saw some snow fall this morning. I doubt that is a sign that we are in for meteor showers that will scorch the earth. First one thing falls from the sky, who knows what's next?
There have been many attempts to derail this subject. I started a few just to give people a place to discuss their topic. This isn't a discussion about Carfax, Social Security or income taxes or even the idea of taxing cattle.
I don't have to give information to the privately owned Carfax for my information to be available to them. It is there, like it or not. They know when the car was sold, what state and the mileage and who knows what else. You don't "opt in" to Carfax.

Every cow that leaves the farm to be sold, traded or shown must have a RFID. Its been that way for the whole state for nearly a year. It has been that way for a few counties for a number of years. It works. No one is going broke, no attempts for the big guy to put the little guy out of business. No new taxes.

Haypoint,
Being taken care of by who? Oh the same people who left them out before, I see.You are not looking at the point i made about one thing leads to another. I do not think they are going to tag humans. To me it would be the fact that WASHINGTON not Lansing has control. As I stated me and everyone else I know is ok WITH RFID UNDER THE CONTROL OF LANSING, not Washington. And I feel that my point about the other programs that were started UNDER the line Oh, it will only be used for this, or it will only be used for that are good points. Do you really think a cash strapped Government will say hmm we wont tax them. And as far as CARFAX, 2 cars of like make model will sell for different prices if one dont have it. Once the program is in place and they know how many animals you have mark my words they will tax them. USDA has already been taking comments on it, and with this whole go green thing it will happen. Where will the money come from to form the new system, cause it will no longer be just one state, they will have a COW CZAR(LOL). Anything Washington touches has a 100000% mark up.....

Call the MDA, Animal Industry Division, they can explain it to you, direct from the horse's mouth.
Do you believe that the government needs NAIS so they can raise your taxes? There are a million other ways and places they can do that. You think they don't know what you put on your schedule F in your last seven years of income tax forms?
We can spend our lives worrying that everything leads to another. What it leads to no one knows. We can create all kinds of "boogie men" ready to jump out and get us.

I, like you, believe that most things done on the federal level could be done on the state level, things done at the state level could be done on the county level, what the county does could be done by each township and most township business could be done by committed neighbors.

Our founding fathers decided a long time ago that a state by state defence wasn't going to protect us from muslim pirates. Since that time there have been many reasons to establish things the uniformity that comes with one agency running the whole program. Some of that has been good and some has been bad.

With cattle being moved from state to state, it makes little sense to have 50 data bases to input data.

Question for Hay
 

You spelled defense as "defence"... are you English?

Are you the spelling police? Are you checking every-one's spelling, or just those that dispute your claims? Because if you are checking every-one's, you missed Jeff's "proove".