Keep calf?????

Ronney · #21 12/07/08, 04:15 AM

Haypoint, while I do see the point your making, this chap is on the ground, is going to cost nothing to rear, should have minimal input from owner and still put some veal/beef on the table - and next time put the cow to a more worthwhile bull!

Which leads me to ask why anybody would want to rear the so-called mini-Jersey. They are not a breed apart, they just happen to be small Jerseys that people are cottoning on to to breed more small Jerseys. That may be fine if all the progeny are heifers with homes to go to but if they're bull calves nobody wants them. I milk Jerseys and like them as they are a small, amendable cow in their own right but I use an Angus bull over them to give me a decent calf to rear and on-sell. Sorry, I just don't see the need to be making dwarfs out of what is already a small cow.

Cheers,
Ronnie

haypoint · #22 12/07/08, 04:53 AM

I've never had a bovine that I could raise for free. If it is my hay baled from my field, it still isn't free. You can't just figure that bale's value at what it cost you to bale, either. Every bale in the barn is worth what it would sell for on the open market. If you have more pasture than your stock can eat down, that's a waste. Adding a tiny steer to the pasture doesn't change things, much.
What a blessing that we can afford to have such choices. Homesteaders of long past, didn't have to make choices based on heart strings. Most of us today chase the elusive dream of eventually being self sufficient, while we pour cash into our hobby. It is that off farm income that supports our hobby.
It grinds me more than a bit, how so many folks want to get a crossbreed and then wonder where the market went. There were, (and continues to be) some commited breeders that over hundreds of years developed the Jersy. So in one casual thought you bring in some other breed without much thought to the results.

Ronney · #23 12/07/08, 05:23 AM

Haypoint, my farm is never going to make a profit or be self-supporting. It is too small and we have a mortgage but it does generate a small income, gives a good lifestyle and feeds us. It is, without a doubt, a hobby. Ironically, 50 years ago a family could have made a comfortable living on the acreage that I now farm as a hobby - and did! A couple of years ago I did a costing of what I would pay to buy the equivalent of a beast from the supermarket - just a tad over $3,000.00. No way does it cost me that much to put the equivalent weight into the freezer plus I'm eating prime beef.

I'm not quite sure what your referring to in your last paragraph. I milk Jerseys as well as several cross breds but use Angus as a terminal sire.

Cheers,
Ronnie

agmantoo · #24 12/07/08, 09:54 AM

For the price off one small bullet and less than $10 I could have replaced this animal in question with a bull holstein calf and been on my way to having a market animal with future value. Hobby farms that remain financial drains rather than becoming self sufficient need to review why they remain non profitable. Recall, I have a calf that has a cleft palate. However, the deck is not stacked against him as he has the genetics to grow into a beef steer. Yes, if sold at the market I will get penalized, however only minimally. I was being kind when above I stated the mini would bring less than $10. Actually he would not have brought sale fee. If the buyers at the sale barn realize the animal was of no value would that not send a signal? Though you may not agree with me and that is fine remember this, calves that cheap are cheap for a reason. There are the exceptions to everything, these rare exceptions will not put your enterprise into the black. Typically it is the reverse. Often the animal will die so all is lost, those that survive require more maintenance and attention, more vet needs, more medicine and when sold they are sold at a loss. I am not the calloused individual this post may conjure. I have just learned how to make my farm give a return and to remain viable and I am trying to share these life experiences to help others.

topside1 · #25 12/07/08, 11:18 AM

For those that are interested, here is the lasted auction results for my area. Note the Jersey bull calves. If it's a mini it may not even sell.....Topside

Holstein Bull Calves: Medium and Large 22.50-45.00; Small 15.00-22.50, Jersey
2.00-5.00.

ozark_jewels · #26 12/07/08, 11:43 AM

Jersey bull calves at the auction on Thursday were selling for $15 each. Holstiens were selling for $15-$60. The reason they are not selling at auction is because the auction buyers are looking for calves that they can resell down the road for a profit. They *might* do this with Holstiens, but not Jerseys with the price of milk replacer, meds, hay and feed.

The difference between that and me is that the calf is already here, its healthy, its on its mother. A calf born this time of year will not eat much hay over the winter, getting most of what he needs from his dam. By the time he is eating a lot of hay, green grass will be coming up and he is again relatively cheap to feed. I need beef, not a re-sale 5-6 months down the road. If left on its dam, you will have relatively little in it by 6-10 months. Butcher it and you'll have some prime beef for *much* cheaper than you can buy it and you'll know exactly what went into it. Not a bad deal at all. Sure, he isn't the most usefull critter ever born, but he doesn't have to be useless or a drain on the farm. He can be an asset.

Of course you wouldn't get anything from it at auction at this point....its MALE. But it sure can be put to good use on your table and not be wasted or be a drain on your farm.

lasergrl · #27 12/07/08, 11:59 AM

mini jerseys are very valuable in the pet/petting zoo market. a cross breed has some value if its posted for sale in the correct avenues. Probably depends on the area alot. Truly mini steers sell for about $500 around here. If you have an "exotic" auction in the area the price will increase if brought to that.

agmantoo · #28 12/07/08, 12:38 PM

Prime beef will never come from a 6-10 month animal that is slaughtered. Have you any idea as to how much this animal in question will weigh at that age? What will be the processing fees? How much meat will this yield? Once you have these questions answered you will understand why at 3 major cattle sales in NC this week only they had a few calves for sale at one market and the price was "Baby Calves, per head: Holsteins 5.00-55.00. " Notice, no Jersey and certainly no crossed with mini jerseys were at the market. I live in the largest dairy county in NC. We have lots of Jersey cows but no Jerseys calves went to market because there are no buyers for bull calves. The dairies destroyed the bull calves and these calves were not crossed with a lesser sire.

ozark_jewels · #29 12/07/08, 12:49 PM

I'm sorry, but I have butchered Jersey steers at 6-8 months old(dam-raised for 5-8 months they were very hefty and big), the meat was prime beef, very flavorful and tender. There was *plenty* of beef to justify the butchering and feeding costs. The beef we got was still cheaper than beef of much less quality at the grocery store.
I cannot see this calf. I have no idea if he is much smaller than our old-time Jersey bull calves are. Most mini's are barely smaller than the old-style Jersey. But I can't imagine that dam-raised on all the milk he wants, he would be terribly smaller than our Jersey calves.
Of course there is no sense in commercial dairies keeping their calves, just as there is no sense in steer buyers buying them from auction, thus you don't see them at auction. There is no comparison between a commercial dairy and the one-three cow homestead/farm.
I still don't see why we are comparing big-time operations to the 1-3 cow homesteader. They can operate completely differently and still be profitable.
I'm not blowing smoke, I have butchered Jerseys(dam-raised) that young and they were better and cheaper than bought beef.
A bull calf can have plenty of value to a one-three cow operation and have less than none to a big dairy operation. 1-3 calves per year vs. 50-300 per year. NOT the same situation.

Madsaw · #30 12/08/08, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by agmantoo

With that calf being crossed with a mini it will bring less than $10 at a sale barn. If kept, after a year of feeding and caring for he will bring less than a $100 IMO. A Jersey heifer will bring ten times what this calf will bring in a year, a beef calf will bring 5 to 6 times what this calf will bring in less than a year. This calf is not an asset!

Agman, I need your number. Next time I try to sell ANY DAIRY HEIFER at a yr old for a $1000 ($100x your stated 10 ) I am calling you for a list of buyers. I got a ready to breed jerseyx I would love to get 1000 for. she is 20 months and very good size.
IMO I would post him for sale come spring as a mini cross. There maybe someoone looking to us him to help make a standard jersey herd smaller. More to the likeing of teh traditional jerseys used to be.
I am from teh thinking if you get rid of it now, go to a sale barn drag home a new calf only to have it get sick right away and die. From improper first few feedings. Turn around buy another one. Now you could be down 200 right off teh bat let alone any meds you gave them too.
Bob

agmantoo · #31 12/08/08, 12:32 PM

Madsaw, I live in a major dairy area, the largest in the state. My dairy farmer neighbor keeps his heifers until they are bottle/bucket weaned. Then the calves are farmed out on contract (no money exchanged) to another dairy farmer, with more pasture land, that feeds them until they reach around 14 to 15 months and then breeds them. The heifers are held for another 6 to 7 months. At that time they are returned to the neighbor (original owner) and the fee is $1800 and that does not include Vet fees and medicine, the death loss, if any, is absorbed by the owner also. The dairy farmer that is the original owner told me that the calves are worth $800 at weaning. The neighbor shared this information as he was wanting me to grow some heifers out for him. Using this information surely makes your heifer at 20 months a bargain. I have seen the pics of your caves and they appear to come from good stock. Is there a reason she is not bred as yet? I will not debate whether a replacement for the mini calf would live or die. There a number of people that post here that I would give odds on that it would flourish however. I do know that statistically it is reported that it costs in excess of $300 per year to keep a cow. In a year with the mini the return will be a loss. PS...would I be wrong in thinking you would not have this animal initially and that you would not raise it starting on day 1?

dosthouhavemilk · #32 12/08/08, 01:08 PM

In *this* case, considering the money and effort already sunk into the calf, killing him now would be a waste. The money and effort I mention is not included in the original post and is something I know about the calf in question from another forum.
I do not think you will find a market for a 1/2 "MiniJersey" intact bull calf, however. Steering him and raising him for meat is a good choice in this instance.

farmmaid · #33 12/08/08, 08:09 PM

Again, Emily is right. As I stated above, our Jersey was 13 months, the last 6 weeks fed out on cut up corn missed in the field at harvest time. The meat is WONDERFUL!!!!!! This is not profitable for a commerical outfit but for family meat....you will NEVER find better.

Madsaw · #34 12/09/08, 12:15 PM

Agman,
We see alot of the commercial dairy farms here in WI now too. With out even thinking hard I can come up with a easy 10 palor farms with in 5 miles of my place. There is many of them try to raise heifers mostly they farm them out like you stated.
The reason our heifers are that age and not breed. They have been on rented pasture since mid may and just came home about 3 weeks ago. One thing the own asked is we do not run bulls there. Also we go by size not age for getting heifers breed. We have tryed the age deal before only to be milking smaller then normal cows. Granted we do not go for big cattle any how, a 900 lbs holstein is tiny in a milking barn.
Bob

francismilker · #35 12/09/08, 03:35 PM

I hate to be the odd one out here, but I have a mini-jersey cow. As stated earlier, the requirment to be mini is not neccessarily breeding genetics but size of cow or bull at maturity. This cow is "dual" registered. I use a regular sized jersey bull on her every year to make an attempt at a heifer that could be a potential mini. The heifer she had this year will also be dual registerable based upon her size as compared to other jerseys born the same time as her.
Do to the sad fact that the dairy industry is completely gone in my area, a jersey bull is an asset around here. Every time that I have one, he gets used and used well. At the time of his maturity and willingness, he gets shipped all over the county to various beef farmers who are interested in using him on first calf heifers. (Now contrary to popular belief in the beef world about low birth weight angus bulls, they don't make them any lower birthweight than a jersey bull does.) That being said, some would condemn using a jersey bull on beef cows due to possibly prohibiting you from keeping replacement heifers out of this calf crop. I've always been of the mind that keeping heifers out of heifers wasn't the best idea in the first place. Secondly, the calves are black and sale very well as weining calves.
After the young bulls "tour of duty", he usually finishes out his days on corn here at the house for a couple of months and then jumps into our freezer as a bull. (we don't ever even castrate)

If, by chance, this mini cow of mine has a heifer, the possibility of it being mini makes it more valuable to me to sale as a family milk cow to a hobby farmer. This might be my only benefit of being far from dairy country. If I lived in an area where I could go to the weekly sale that was just a few miles down the road and pick up $2 bottle calves, I'd probably be divorced or need to buy more land and put up more calf hutches. But, with the price of feed today and getting these dairy steers to market size, it's a good thing I don't because it just wouldn't pay.

My family enjoys jersey meat and would recommend it to anyone. However, I wouldn't go out and seek after a jersey bull calf if he wasn't born on the place. It just costs too much to fatten one out these days. (especially if you have time, purchase price, and bottle feeding involved.)
I don't see anything wrong at all with breeding a full size to a mini jersey. But, going back to the OP, I'm not sure there would be any financial advantage at all in paying the costs of registration.