USDA memo mandates NAIS premises identification for 2009

The Agriculture Department memo, issued on Sept. 22, dictates the procedure by which state agencies shall register animal owners’ properties, despite the owners’ objections, if the owners refuse to voluntarily register.

“The memo not only calls for mandatory registrations, but for branding individuals as ‘dissenters,’” said Col. (Ret.) Randy Givens, a founder of the Liberty Ark Coalition, an alliance formed to fight the animal identification program. “The USDA’s document states that people who refuse to ‘voluntarily’ register their property will not only be involuntarily assigned a registration number, but will also be assigned a special code that designates their refusal to ‘volunteer,’” he said.

http://www.wilsoncountynews.com/arti...ation-for-2009

MANDATORY it Will Be
 

A DRAFT explains USDAs goals. The DRAFT was published in the Federal Register. The subsequent "be happy" untitled documentation the USDA put out was not published in the Federal Legislature. The DRAFT is quite telling in that for a nation that has 300 million citizens, the USDA was content to talk with 47 people to ascertain whether the NAIS should be mandatory or not. Obviously, USDA's goal was to make it MANDATORY from the beginning.

Doreen Hannes and NAIS
 

Please read Doreen Hannes's research on NAIS. She has traced it back to Agenda 21 and the United Nations. As usual, our leaders have sold us out. Several of her articles are kept at News with Views. The link is http://www.newswithviews.com/Hannes/doreenA.htm .

Haypoint,
I understand logistics of diseases and how it would be easier to trace if we were all in a database. Just like it would be easier to solve crimes if all of our guns AND ammo were numbered, traced, tagged... but does that make it right? As you said, the fair already has addresses. If they had required a Federal ID from me I would not have been going to that fair anymore. By the way the fair board didn't require these Prem. IDs, it was the Ill. Dept. of Ag trying to comply with the the USDA so don't tell me why the fair might want it, it was imposed on them.
The DRAFT is very important here because it shows what the long goals are don't be fooled if they are only imposed in baby steps. These programs can be seen in the UK and Australia. I believe that governments and businesses want control of food in general. They want to know what animals we have, they want us to have to buy hybrid seed every year rather than saving our own, etc. I think that this started in the U.N. ... When NAIS was first promoted here it even had brochures that used the same program name as what is in the UK, it's all related and it's all headed towards a goal. I think that goal is that we all be dependent on government for our well being. If we're dependent we will be/are more easily controlled.

I can't convince you to give up what you believe.
I cannot understand your fear and hate towards the government and big business.
I could not survive believing there were so many powerful people out to get me or take from me. You've rolled up your fear/hate to include NAIS and Monsanto in the same sentence. For good measure you've even hopped onto the World Order bandwagon.
Good grief, Charlie Brown

I want to know WHO is going to pay for the tags/chips? Along with WHO is going check for compliance? How did they plan to go about this on open range?

The tags and chips I've priced are $10 to $25 each the readers are $300 to $6000. And then I also have to pay an animal tax and the brand inspector fee.

We only have 11 brand inspectors for the entire state and many states which have brand laws don't have any inspectors on staff.

MT doesn't have any premis ID requirements because it could start a range war. And how would they round up ALL the cattle for tagging.

The states around Yellowstone have told the government that if they won't control the wild species (bison, deer, elk, antelope, wolves and bears) that spread the diseases then the states will not have NAIS. It's bad enough that there are brucellosis outbreaks on a consistant basis and they can't control it.

The place I see NAIS falling apart is at the sale barn and the packing plants where there is Gov rules. This is the point at which the contamination of the food chain happens not at the farm.

I think it is Missouri!

Nais
 

For those that are willing to be dictated to, by all means support NAIS.
First of all, I won't be made a criminal because I can't afford tags nor all the other stuff that goes along with it. We currently have a system that works just fine, Thank You. As another poster said, my premise is taxed and on the record. The dollars to fund NAIS come from the corporate area and the ----edable man that came up with tracking tags. Those same tags should be able to track and animal without all the required paper work. I could talk all day about my ablosute terror at the prospect of all this. First your animals,next your land. Please, Please, Please contact your senator repeatedly about your views.

Marjorie,
I don't have time to go over everything that is related to NAIS on Homesteadingtoday. There is a lot of different information. If after you've read those postings, I'd be willing to discuss a few new points or concerns with you.
The tags don't send a signal and can't track a thing, much less create and maintain a data base. They aren't tracking tags. There is dern little paperwork needed.
The tags are $2.00 and you don't need anything else. If you want to read the tags, go ahead. You don't need a reader for that. The numbers are stamped into the tag. How easy can it get?


Money to fund NAIS doesn't come from any Corporate anything. It comes from taxpayers. It helps keep the markets open for the small farmers.


Sewtim, the cow tags are $2.00 and the chip that most horse people prefer costs $10 or so. The Vet can easily implant it while he does the annual Coggins test. The cows in Michigan have the NAIS style ear tags and that program is moving smoothly. All the horses in Lousinia have the implanted chip, required by the state for identification not due to NAIS. It helped after Katrina.
If you have a brand inspector, can I assume that your cattle are branded? Wouldn't it be easier to shove an ear tag into the cow's ear than to throw her and burn the hide?

Please explain how NAIS falls apart at Sale Barns and slaughterhouses. In Michigan hundreds of cows are sold thru Auction Barns each week. They are all scanned. The slaughterhouses are doing a good job scanning the tags and sending in the data. Falling apart? Hardly.

This past year, a tiny fraction of one percent of the hamburger in this country was recalled because there was the POSSABILITY that it had some eColi. This was because a USDA inspector had samples that cultured positive for eColi. There wa also some strawberries and spinich that had eColi. NAIS is not a slaufgterhouse sanitation program. It doesn't stop manure from getting onto meat. If a diseased cow is detected at slaughter, NAIS is designed to trace back, not keep an eye on poopy meat in the slaughterhouse. That is something the meat inspectors do.

The meat recally were so large because they wanted to be sure every possable package of hamburger was off the shelf. The slaughter plant in California recalled millions of pounds of hamburger and there never was anything wrong with the beef. Because of the need to error on the side of caution, a lot more meat gets recalled than might need to be.

Why would they have to comply on the open range? Do you understand that they don't have to be tagged till moved off the property? You have to round them up to ship them right? Then you tag them as they are loaded.
You wouldn't need a reader. They would have one at the sales barn. They could probably even apply the tags there. They do it with Bangs tags and scrapies tags at our local sales barn. Send the buyer and seller a printout of the cattle numbers so you have a copy for your records. Course they would add a little to cover their labor....

[QUOTE=haypoint;3500165]


Exactly, and the USDA will likely see their budget increase. The NHC started naming more storms, starting covering storms more often because their goal was to seek out more funding. They got just that, MORE funding. There was a quote somewhere of them actually saying that, that they need more funding, thus they will hype more. The USDA seems to want more money, so lets initiate a BIG program resulting in more money spent.


NAIS falls apart because it does nothing to prevent the spread of disease. With a lag time of 48 hours before reporting the move, it gives that animal the chance to spread disease across several states. Tracing it back to the source, does not stop the spread of disease. If it was Hoof and Mouth, and the animal was a tyfoid mary, it would be too late. NAIS's goal I thought was to do that, but since it doesn't stop the spread of disease. It appears to be more of the same "We want to know what your doing".

By the time they detected the disease at slaughter, the cow could have already spread to 2-3 different states and 20 different farms potentially. You have the rampant spread of disease, with traceback, but the disease is still spread, NAIS does nothing to prevent that.


Notice that slaughter plant was BIG business, and that had nothing more than a slap on the wrist. I realise your a big business guy, and thats why you support NAIS.


Jeff

Exactly. They tag before being left but NOT TESTED. Which is what will help to prevent spread of disease. Go ahead, trace it back to the farm. Problem is, the animal already spread disease through a fair, or an auction barn. Tracing it back wont prevent the spread of disease.

It might, depending what it is and how it spreads. If the farm is contaminated with something that can get stuck to the soles of one's shoes and than brought to feed mill from where it will travel to all the farms of the people who came to buy feed, finding the source of contamination will surely stop the spread dead in its tracks.

So in otherwords, the disease has spread off farm to other farms already. Then when they trace it back to its origins (chances are they might not find the start either), it simply stops spreading? Disease isn't like a serpent, you cut the head off, the body falls limp. Disease once off a farm, can do what it wants.


Besides the diseases of concern, are ones that would spread, and NAIS wont stop a darn thing.


Jeff

Sure, but it's still there and if in every area where the problem pops up the disease is not eradicated it will continue spreading. he key to control of the spread is acting fast - and wasting time trying to find out the movement of animals doesn't help. And getting to the point of origin might be important because if it's some farmers practices (like selling off suspected or diseased animals - which in my opinion is a hanging offense) that brought and spread the disease further it might prevent future outbreaks.

You prove my point, once again, "By the time they detected the disease at slaughter, the cow could have already spread to 2-3 different states and 20 different farms potentially. You have the rampant spread of disease, with trace back, but the disease is still spread, NAIS does nothing to prevent that."

The USDA would be able to trace back to those 20 different farms and then trace forward to any movements from those farms in that 48 hour window. They might end up with a hundred herds. Whoop-tee-do. That is an entirely different situation than we have now of quarantining farms as the disease shows up or shutting down every bit of movement.

"Notice that slaughter plant was BIG business, and that had nothing more than a slap on the wrist. I realise your a big business guy, and that's why you support NAIS."

Hate to break the news to you, there were plenty of violations and recalls in the local butcher shops and small time slaughterhouses. The reason you don't know about it is simply that a small operation violation isn't national news. This "slap on the wrist" as you call it has bankrupted more than a few multimillion dollar operations. Hardly a slap on the wrist.

I'm not a big business guy. But I do get off the farm from time to time. I see that in this state, most of the cows are milked by farm families and most beef is raised in small herds. There isn't a lot of money to be made, but we get by. We depend on supply and demand. A loss of consumer confidence or loss of an oversea market, leaves too much beef on the market and my price, way up here in the middle of nowhere, drop. Rapid trace back builds consumer confidence and keeps us little guys in business. I don't want to be locked out of a trace back system run by big business. Your anti-NAIS stance paves the way for big business to run their own program and kill my open market. Shame on you.

"Exactly. They tag before being left but NOT TESTED. Which is what will help to prevent spread of disease. Go ahead, trace it back to the farm. Problem is, the animal already spread disease through a fair, or an auction barn. Tracing it back wont prevent the spread of disease."

Tested for what? They can't be tested for every disease known to man. They are cows, not Astronauts. Yes they can trace back to the farm, but they can also trace back to the fair and auction barn. To you that is a widespread disease outbreak. To those that understand, being able to focus on the farms that had cows at that fair plus those that had cattle at that sale, perhaps as many as a hundred farms, is a whole lot better than quarantining and testing an entire state or three.

Preventing disease? There's a lofty goal. Is the immunization of children a failure because chicken pox still exists? Immunization limits the spread of disease. Rapid trace back limits the number of exposures by quickly quarantining the exposed cattle before they get moved to infect other farms.

So, you want an even bigger and intrusive system that tests every animal before it leaves a farm?

I think the person's point was that we couldn't possibly test for everything.
Haypoint, from what I've read, programs like this aren't likely to help with your type of market. I regularly read about farms in the UK that adapted their farms to have on farm butchers and shops because they couldn't deal with all the restrictions on animal movement and tracking. They had to quit or start direct marketing their lamb/beef/eggs off the farm because these great programs are so burdensome.

What it's all coming down to, is that things have become too big. I find it interesting. This past year is going to set a record for the number of sales, and the total number of dollars grossed at sales, along with averages. The highest average at sale in the history of the dairy industry occured this year. It was 97,000+. the sale totaled over 5 million on 40+ lots. Another high sale was over 2 million dollars on 100+ lots, averaged over 20k. This is all without NAIS instituted. TONS of cattle moving.


But whats the difference? These animals at those sales are ALL tested before leaving the farm. They are tested for TB, Burcellosis, and vaccinated against shipping fever and rabbis. If you tested before they left the farm, NAIS wouldn't be needed. I find it humorous that "some diseases cant be tested for". EXACTLY... NAIS can trace back, but after a disease like hoof and mouth or TB spread. Still results in tens of thousands of cattle being destroyed. Whether they trace it and isolate it to 20 farms or not, 20 farms go bye bye as those two diseases result in destruction of those herds. Hoof and Mouth is a nightmere as the quarentine zones would be BIG.

There was a strain of TB found in a captive deer herd here in NY recently. It is a strain that can be spread to humans. Deer will not be in the NAIS database.


What it is, and haypoint you have already stated it. BIG BUSINESS. You like big business, I dont. So your support of NAIS is not surprising.


Jeff

When I titled this thread "large can of worms" it was an understatement! I simply started the thread to state my opinion (believed to be true and accurate) that no matter how much we agree/disagree, like/dislike the NAIS, it's coming so we need to get used to it. While I appreciate all of the input in this thread you folks need to be nice!!!

You are Incorrect
 

NAIS is not coming to my property. I needn't get used to it.

That is Laughable
 

That is garbage. The promoters of NAIS are academia and big business.

[ Your anti-NAIS stance paves the way for big business to run their own program and kill my open market. Shame on you.

Yee Haw!

The tax assessor comes to your property as well, but I'd bet you pay your taxes!

I stand by my point that....America is currently being run by corporations. Take Hillary Clinton for example..Insurance co.'s fill her pockets with money whilst she is touting that insurance should be affordable for all.
Our Representatives are for sale, corporations will take over your animals, then your land, and You Will DO As you are TOLD!

Nope my cows are not branded (we only have a couple) and the chip can be used instead of a brand (can also be link to a computer data base) BUT the state brand inspector must still confirm they are tagged/chipped.

Obviously you are used to semi-tame cattle. On open range Without brands on the exterior you can't tell who's is who's. If you were relying on those tags they need to run through a non-portable alley reader which is really big bucks. Which none of the ranchers have Electricity out at the corals and then you have to get the cows to where ever you set it up. Time is money.

The tags the government has so far approved will read from a satalite. Just like the GPS chips hospitals can put in your infant so that they can be tracked if lost. The company I would like to use isn't on the approved list for the FED because theirs can't tracked.

IL was one of the states that was requiring premis ID before you could enter the county fairs or state fair. And then no body at the fair offices knew about it and never even wanted to see the information. This cost us $12 per lamb plus gas to get to the tagging site and later the vet also had to check the lambs for transport before they could be shown. And Fed Scabies tags are $2 each.

I also have horses which don't use TAGS but chips injected by a vet or approved person. Then every 30 days the vet must inspect to issue a cert of health along with every 6 months they have required blood tests.

The trace Back idea is so that you can be sued by any affected party or fined by the federal government if the disease originated on your premis. It can't prevent any disease it can only find the culprit.

I can't imagine how much money you spend to comply. You even seem to enjoy it.
Anyone ever heard the term Sheeple? ... Sorry

Exactly. It doesn't prevent disease, it doesn't stop the spread of disease. Because what some on here fail to realise, is that some of these diseases can spread, and with animals moving all over, they actually would have no way of know how far it went. Because you also have the issue of a neighbor bordering you. If the disease spread that way, the neighbor bordered another neighbor. Lets say it simply passed. That other neighbor sells a heifer that is infected (unknowingly). It spreads further. Finding the SOURCE doesn't solve the problem.


NAIS is both a form of control (government wanting to know more of what you have), and it favors big business. Anything the government does, favors big business.


I have an example..

There is a farmer locally who wrote a letter to the editor attacking someone for criticizing a few senator/congressmen. Well he was saying how great they were, and that they have done a lot for farming. One thing he fails to notice (I am sure he does, but I doubt would admit to it), he is a large farm. They have over 1000 head. The government helps out LARGE farms. I can tell you this. I have not seen a single thing from any of the politicans he mentioned, neither have many other small farms. This once again is the government favoring big business.

There was a politican years ago under Reagan who was at a FFA convention. A kid said "I want to be a farmer". The VP said "Dont worry about becoming one, because we are going to buy our food overseas anyways". They try to say "NAIS is for a better market, etc". Then if so, why do they need to know all the animals you have? Why do you, if your part of it, need to report what you have in a given time? I find it amusing, that anyone trusts the government.

Those in favor of the NAIS. What has the government done for you, personally? Because anyone I know if asked that question, cant answer it. Thats because the government doesn't do anything for you..

But hey, go ahead support a program that does nothing to stop disease..


Jeff

I had the honor and opportunity to visit Cuba a few years ago on a missionary trip. When I returned, I remember thinking to myself, "am I ever glad to be back in the good old USA.". If some US citizens think their government does nothing for them, they ought to go to another country for a day or two before weighing in on how "our government does nothing for us." There's a reason that we have to patrol our borders so well on the South side. It's because thousands of people daily who have a poverished lifestyle are trying to come here and have a better life. When we begin to think we've got it so bad we ought to sit down and make a list of all the wonderful countries (with their regulations) we would rather live. Then, by all means GO THERE!

As far as the question: "what has my country done for me, personally?" Well, for starters, I get drought relief and flood relief if the funds are there and I apply for it. And yes, that's personal. It is so personal that the check even has my name in the "pay to the order of" section.

And another thing. Why do we care if the government knows how many cows we have? Is it because we won't be able to continue cheating on taxes?

Nope my cows are not branded (we only have a couple) and the chip can be used instead of a brand (can also be link to a computer data base) BUT the state brand inspector must still confirm they are tagged/chipped.
I’ve never heard of implanting a chip on cows. I guess you could, but I don’t understand why.

Obviously you are used to semi-tame cattle. On open range Without brands on the exterior you can't tell who's is who's. If you were relying on those tags they need to run through a non-portable alley reader which is really big bucks. Which none of the ranchers have Electricity out at the corals and then you have to get the cows to where ever you set it up. Time is money.
No problem for your unique situation. Just put in the ear tag while you are branding them. Most cattle farmers use a second tag with a 3x3 area for a two digit number, so they can read from a moderate distance. Why would you want to run those cattle thru a chute and read the number? You could sort out who’s is who’s with the brand.

The tags the government has so far approved will read from a satalite. Just like the GPS chips hospitals can put in your infant so that they can be tracked if lost. The company I would like to use isn't on the approved list for the FED because theirs can't tracked.
I thought we’d put the foil hat crowd to bed. That satellite talk is pure road apples. Such talk shows you don’t know what you are talking about. Put a sock in it and find out what a RFID is and isn’t. It has no power. It can’t send a signal, not to a satellite, not to anything. The number is stamped on the tag or you can buy a reader that sends a signal to the RFID and then reads the bounced signal. You must be a very short distance for it to work. Perhaps the company you checked with isn’t making a tag that works with the other companies RFID. None of the RFID ear tags are able to track anything.

IL was one of the states that was requiring premis ID before you could enter the county fairs or state fair. And then no body at the fair offices knew about it and never even wanted to see the information. This cost us $12 per lamb plus gas to get to the tagging site and later the vet also had to check the lambs for transport before they could be shown. And Fed Scabies tags are $2 each.
Getting a premise ID is free. Getting a Health Certificate isn’t a requirement for NAIS. It is a requirement for across state lines or border. What tags, beyond scrapie tags did you get? Scrapie tags is not NAIS, it is a program that has been going on for many years, working towards eliminating a sheep and goat disease similar to Mad Cow.

I also have horses which don't use TAGS but chips injected by a vet or approved person. Then every 30 days the vet must inspect to issue a cert of health along with every 6 months they have required blood tests.
Chips in horses isn’t new. People have been doing that for a long time. The only time you need a health certificate is when you transport a horse across state lines or US border. Coggins is a common horse blood test. Most places accept annual testing. None of this is a requirement of NAIS.

The trace Back idea is so that you can be sued by any affected party or fined by the federal government if the disease originated on your premis. It can't prevent any disease it can only find the culprit.
I can sue you for picking your nose. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. Getting a judgment is a whole different thing. The USDA has never fined anyone for having a diseased animal that they didn’t know about. Having an ear tag to identify your cow isn’t any different that tracking down an owner by a brucelous tag or a brand and bill of sale. NAIS allows a smooth search for exposed animals and their source.
NAIS cannot prevent disease. That has been clearly established. No one is making that claim. NAIS helps locate, as you say, the culprit. The search for infected animals can be focused on those that have had contact with the “culprit”. That stops their movement until tests can be done, while allowing everybody’s livestock moving and keeping everybody in business.

Exactly. It doesn't prevent disease, it doesn't stop the spread of disease. Because what some on here fail to realise, is that some of these diseases can spread, and with animals moving all over, they actually would have no way of know how far it went. Because you also have the issue of a neighbor bordering you. If the disease spread that way, the neighbor bordered another neighbor. Lets say it simply passed. That other neighbor sells a heifer that is infected (unknowingly). It spreads further. Finding the SOURCE doesn't solve the problem.
It doesn’t stop disease. Do you have a plan that will? It does limit the spread of disease by quickly locating potentially exposed livestock, quarantining them while tests are run. This beats the current method of shutting down entire states and testing every one. For diseases spread by air currents or insects (EIA in horses), it is important to know right away of horses in the area of an infected animal. Using your example, once an infected animal is detected, the USDA would turn to the database and know where this animal has been thru it’s life. If the disease can spread to neighboring animals, with a premise registered, they know where other livestock are in the area. If it is caught before many moves have been made, the search is simple. If it involves more time and more farms would need to be checked. Even if it involved a couple hundred farms, which is a whole lot better than what we’ve got now. If you are in a state that gets shut down due to one or two disease outbreaks, you’ll wish there were a way to pinpoint the disease’s path, instead of picking on everyone.

NAIS is both a form of control (government wanting to know more of what you have), and it favors big business. Anything the government does, favors big business.
Yup, the Big guys are picking on the little guy. Please explain how NAIS favors big business?



I have an example..

There is a farmer locally who wrote a letter to the editor attacking someone for criticizing a few senator/congressmen. Well he was saying how great they were, and that they have done a lot for farming. One thing he fails to notice (I am sure he does, but I doubt would admit to it), he is a large farm. They have over 1000 head. The government helps out LARGE farms. I can tell you this. I have not seen a single thing from any of the politicans he mentioned, neither have many other small farms. This once again is the government favoring big business.
Were the things he mentioned helping all farmers or just big farms. You think you can dismiss his comments because he has 1000 cows. Do you know what those congressmen have voted for? Do you know their voting records? From what you’ve written you are just assuming these guys aren’t looking out for all farms. Blind belief that the Big guys are benefiting and you can’t.

There was a politican years ago under Reagan who was at a FFA convention. A kid said "I want to be a farmer". The VP said "Dont worry about becoming one, because we are going to buy our food overseas anyways". They try to say "NAIS is for a better market, etc". Then if so, why do they need to know all the animals you have? Why do you, if your part of it, need to report what you have in a given time? I find it amusing, that anyone trusts the government.
Sounds like another unfounded urban myth. I find it amusing that someone doesn’t understand that the government is us.
Those in favor of the NAIS. What has the government done for you, personally? Because anyone I know if asked that question, cant answer it. Thats because the government doesn't do anything for you..
The government plows my road, keeps dangerous felons locked up, insures that the gas pumps are accurate, checks pet stores so I don’t buy a diseased monkey, loan money so I can get a crop planted, when banks won’t, provide food stamps for the workers at WalMart so they can keep wages low, saving me money on a pair of flip-flops. Meat inspectors, milk inspectors, plant inspectors, labs that test for diseases in humans and livestock.

But hey, go ahead support a program that does nothing to stop disease..
Limiting the spread of disease isn’t nothing.

________________________________________
I can't imagine how much money you spend to comply. You even seem to enjoy it.
Anyone ever heard the term Sheeple? ... Sorry

I pay $2.00 for each ear tag. That’s it. Wonder no more, Steve.
Anyone ever heard the term Foil hat? … Sorry

Ever heard of Eminent Domain? The government without reason could seize all of your property tomorrow. You could be the most loyal servant to the government, but it wont change what they can do.

So I am guessing you like more taxes? I am sure you probably were one that supports that gas tax for farmers. Since you seem to not mind taxes. The government if it actually did well for people. Would actually represent people. They dont.


Jeff

Haypoint,
I was referring to implanting horses with RFID, getting health inspections every 30 days, etc. Maybe they got the satellite chip in the kid thing from the battery commercial that shows a mom using a device to find her child after it walked off at the park. I'm not sure that that person was for real though, that seemed a little suspect.
No, I don't wear a tinfoil hat (it didn't match my eyes), but I am scared of the Federal government getting too powerful, as were the founding fathers. That's why the constitution is full of things that the government is NOT supposed to do. That's also why it says that whatever isn't listed as a power of the Federal government in the constitution is supposed to be up to the states. I guess it comes down to how we want to interpret "General Welfare" in the Constitution.

So I am guessing you like more taxes? I am sure you probably were one that supports that gas tax for farmers. Since you seem to not mind taxes. The government if it actually did well for people. Would actually represent people. They dont.


Jeff[/QUOTE]

As originally stated, "I don't support the NAIS". (or the gas tax for farmers.) However, keep whining, keep griping, keep belly-aching. It's not going to go away. Whether the govt. has good intentions or bad, it's coming. I'm sure those who do not like it can go to Canada as they did to dodge the draft during Vietnam. (I'm sure their regulations are a lot "easier" to deal with.) Otherwise, deal with it.

I think you guys have this upside down.
I want smaller government. I don't want the USDA shutting down an entire state and wasting my tax money testing every single cow or horse or pig. I don't want them traipsing onto my farm or anybody else's farm.

NAIS allows the USDA to focus their testing to known exposed animals. It is quick and it is easy. Sure beats the way it is done today. What, you mean you've memorized the noNAIS web site, you've organized a write-in campaign against NAIS and you haven't figured out what the current process is without NAIS?

In Michigan, about twelve years ago, some cows tested positive for TB. Without any RFID, without NAIS, every cow in the state was tested for TB. That's right every one. Many were hundreds of miles from known TB positive cows. Can you imagine the cost? Can you grasp how the cattle industry was paralyzed until these thousands and thousands of cattle were tested?

Today, every cow has an ear tag before it leaves a farm. TB continues to pop up from time to time in the TB area, but USDA's annual TB checks (free to the farmer) keeps the market open for these guys. The Upper Peninsula is TB free and the USDA leaves us alone.

If a cow shows up at slaughter and has TB, With NAIS, tracing it back
to its source is a snap. If I wanted more government, I'd want it to stay the way it is.

That's sure to result in a loss of market, during extended quarantines, spend millions testing every cow in the state. You talk about NAIS putting the little guy out of business. A closed market due to someone else's disease is more apt to shut me down than sticking a tag in a cow's ear.

We all went clean, healthy animals. No one in their right mind wants sick animals, spreading disease. However, the government is moving their Hoof and Mouth lab to the mainland (Kansas). This is the very government pushing for NAIS. If they were soooo concerned over disease, they would have kept it on Plum Island, but they did not.


In fact from my understanding, NAIS was originally pushed by Big Ag, they stand to lose more from the lack of international sales. The little guy DOES NOT. Many of the animals sold at auctions I attend, go within the US and Canada. That market works without NAIS just fine, it doesn't effect it at all.

Again, its international marketing, and its Big Ag.


Jeff

Jeff, I just can't explain it any better than I have the past few times, but I'll try.
The value of your cow, the amount it will bring at a Flea Market, Livestock Auction or to your brother-in-law, goes up and down depending on demand.

The capitalist society we live in is based on Supply and Demand. As demand increases, prices go up. As supply increases, prices go down. Aree you with me, Jeff?

Every time a side of beef gets taken out of the US market and shipped off shore, that reduces the supply. It doesn't take much change in supply to make bigger changes in price. Rememberwhen crude oil demand caught up with supply last year? Then when demand slowed a bit, the prices fell fast and hard? It is the same for most commodities.

So when big ag exports beef, even the little guy, like yourself, sees an increase in the price paid for their beef, because of the smaller supply available in this country.

Japan isn't paying high prices for beef from big ag. They are paying market prices, from the open market. The same open market most small farmers market their beef.

Please give up the notion that somewhere there is a farmer with 10,000 cows that he is selling to South Korea and he is making you tag your animals to allow him to sell to SK.

If the US loses its international sales, the price for beef drops. THe big corperate farms are often intigrated in other areas of Ag or the Food Industry. They will sell those cows on the open market. They can afford to sell them for less than it cost to raise them, covering their losses with other corperate interests. You and I would see the prices paid at Auction drop. The folks at the Flea Market and your brother-in-law can look in just about any newspaper and see what the price of cattle is.

Any loss of market, it doesn't matter if it is a loss of export or consumers concerns over food safety, effects the prices paid for everyone's cows.

I can't afford to put more into my cows than I can get back. Big Ag can. So any loss of market effects us more than them. You and I need an export market more than they do.

Even those that eat their own meat, a downturn in the value of livestock effects them. Caring for a herd of cows and all the expense gets tiring when store-bought hamburger drops below 2 bucks gets old real fast. Sure there is value in home-raised, but those home-grown tomatoes aren't quite as sweet when the
Farmers Market has them for $5. a bushel.

When Canada lost its US market a few years ago due to Mad Cow, do you think it was just Big Ag that suffered? Don't you see that the little Canadian beef farmer was seriously hurt by the loss of exports?

When Canada and the US opened their borders, it effected beef price, it went down. When the border was closed, the price was up, without NAIS. You have stated before, or atleast someone did about Australia taking some of our beef market in Japan, because they have NAIS. Many of those large beef operations would benefit more off of NAIS than a small producer. Dairy farms number around 65,000 or so. Dairy farms do not market their animals for beef, when the cull, some go for beef, but thats not a concern for them, what they bring (beef price). NAIS was not designed for milk consumption, so to a dairy farmer it doesn't help their market.

Again, the market I seek does not benefit off of NAIS. It will not increase price, and that is the registered dairy industry. People buying those animals, I doubt care if the animal is in NAIS or not. As long as its tests come back clean..

International marketing I will insist is the main reason. Once Japan became concerned, they stopped buying from us. The interenational market is weak with beef, not dairy products, and its why NAIS is being pushed for.

Funny thing, Madcow could still pass on before knowing, even with NAIS.. Also if you COOK your meat well, you can avoid that nasty disease.


Jeff

When Canada and the US opened their borders, it effected beef price, it went down.
Correct! That’s the supply and demand effect at work. The Canadian meat increased supply.
When the border was closed, the price was up, without NAIS. You have stated before, or atleast someone did about Australia taking some of our beef market in Japan, because they have NAIS. Many of those large beef operations would benefit more off of NAIS than a small producer.

If the price of beef goes from $75 per 100 pounds to $100 per hundred pounds, the guy with 10 cows to sell benefits and the guy with 100 cows to sell benefits. Are you implying that because the guy with 100 cows to sell benefits more?

After watching “Man From Snowy River” I think the farms in Australia are vast acreages. Is that factual, I don’t know. Does it matter? Not really.

Dairy farms number around 65,000 or so. Dairy farms do not market their animals for beef, when the cull, some go for beef, but thats not a concern for them, what they bring (beef price). NAIS was not designed for milk consumption, so to a dairy farmer it doesn't help their market.

Having a way to quickly track a disease helps the dairy industry, too. Remember consumer confidence impacts supply and demand. Having hundreds, perhaps thousands, of dairy farms quarantined is more costly to a dairy than a delay in selling beef cattle.

Again, the market I seek does not benefit off of NAIS. It will not increase price, and that is the registered dairy industry. People buying those animals, I doubt care if the animal is in NAIS or not. As long as its tests come back clean..

Registered dairy cattle change in value based on the same supply and demand that everything else depends. When consumer demand for milk and milk products drops, the value of all dairy cows drops. Registered cows are no exception.
An example of this would be the change in the horse market. With the loss of the slaughter market for horses, a rapid glut on the horse market caused prices of horses to drop. Right now there are horses that are free for the taking that a few years ago would bring 500 to 1000 dollars. The value of quality registered horses dropped. There are a few horses, at the top pf the pack, that sell for excellent prices, however most are selling for thousands less than they did a few years ago.
When dealing in registered animals, there is always a concern that we are buying the same animal that is represented on the registration papers. Breed associations have taken steps to insure that doesn’t happen. Many use DNA. With a tamperproof tag, once the animal’s DNA is matched to that animal and that unique ear tag number, buyers and sellers have a greater assurance that the animal is what it is presented to be. That is another way NAIS can help you maintain market share.
Most dairy farmers market their old non-productive cows thru Sale Barns. The value of an old Holstein is less than that of a young Angus, but it’s value is still an important part of the dairy’s bottom line. A drop in demand and price for quality beef cows effects the value of those old milk cows.

International marketing I will insist is the main reason. Once Japan became concerned, they stopped buying from us. The interenational market is weak with beef, not dairy products, and its why NAIS is being pushed for.

Funny thing, Madcow could still pass on before knowing, even with NAIS.. Also if you COOK your meat well, you can avoid that nasty disease.

I wish there were a few things that we could agree on, Jeff. However you are wrong again on your beliefs about Mad Cow. What sets Mad Cow apart from other diseases is that heat does not kill this pathogen. That fact and the fact that it can take years to show up following an exposure. Your misunderstanding of Mad Cow is not a “Funny thing”.
The meat from a TB infected cow is safe to eat. A gob of eColi contaminated hamburger is safe if it is cooked. Venison from a chronic wasting disease deer is considered safe to eat. But Mad Cow remains dangerous.