jersy calves couple questions
 

I just bought 13 baby jersey calves last Thursday from the sale barn. So far all are alive. Having some scour problems. Anyone have a sure fire way to fix them up quick? One calf tonight actually pooped a black ooze. I have never in all my farm days seen one do that!! Any clues on it?? These guys are about a week old to best of my knowledge. They are just so dang cute ya have to love them!!!!!!!!!!! Got a small guernsey in with them. We named him red. He is one of the ones scouring. If anyone has any ideas I am open for suggestions. We treated them with la 200 on arrival at home and did a follow up booster on saturday. gave some scour pills I had today but not seeing much change yet. Thanks for any help!!!

You might consider a 3cc shot each of baytril, keep a lot of electrolytes in them, and if they are scouring I'd separate them. One sure fire way to keep it going is to keep them together. It's kind of like streph throat at school. They will just keep passing it around. As for the black ooze, it could be dried blood from the rectum area from the small vessels being irritated because of the scouring. If it continues, you might consider getting some Corid from your vet or farm supply for this. I'm no expert, but it seems you have your hands full.

I had very very good luck with the baytril. I never heard of it used before. I work at a small animal clinic so what I have available to me is limited. We had the baytril 100 so I gave it a try. It made my down, not sucking calf, normal in 12 hours. I boostered the shot two days later.

ok i am getting differing opinions here locally about whether they are scouring or not. The poop is a dark mustard yellow but like water. The people around here some say has to be bright yellow and water or white and water to be scours. So if this is not scours wha is it?? There was only one with black oozy poop and that seems to be gone now. My mother says to get grain in to them and that will help. I have grain here but one vet said no grain for 2 weeks cause they are too young one says get creep feed (not sure what that is) I will take any and all advice ya can give me. getting meds around here is not easy vets want to come out to do it themselves and charge over 140 bucks just to drive out. I can't afford that. best I have tor meds is pen g and la 200. these guys weight between 55-75 pounds.

Where do you live? You may be a neighbor of a forum member that could come by and offer some free advice. Scours is very stinky runny diarrhea. Without immediate treatment it can kill in hours through dehydration. Isolate as mentioned above, keep giving electrolytes, homemade or store bought as often as possible. Others will disagree but I remove all dairy products from a scouring calf for 4 to 6 feedings. Then slowly re-introduce milk back into it's diet....such as 2 pints electrolytes mixed with one pint milk and increase the milk and decrease electrolytes per feeding until the calf is drinking 3 pints milk per feeding. When I bottle-feed a Jersey calf I usually only feed 2 pints milk per feeding thus reducing the chances of scours. Around two week old mark I begin to slowing increase the volume of milk to 3 pints per feeding.....I could go on and on about the do's and don't. Just try to identify specific problems and I'd be happy to help. Just remember that hungry calves are healthy calves..Don't overfeed...TJ

Calf poo is sometimes yellow from the milk, but it is custardy, not a pool of liquid. Yellowish is okay, as long as there is some solid to it. White, or pinkish streaks in yellow, is bad. I kinda wonder if the black poo isn't like newborn human babies...their first bowel movements are black & tarry... I don't know if the comparison between calves & infants work, but maybe the one with the black poo is younger...

We offer grain within the first week. They'll eat it, and it won't hurt 'em if you give them small amounts initially. Baby calves on their mommas eat grass early on with no ill effects.

When scouring, we put crushed imodium (yes, human diarrhea medicine) in the bottle w/sulmet, give a shot of excede or LA-200, cut the bottle by about 1/4, and give electrolyte in the bottle.

Hope it goes well for you!

-Joy

What worked the best for me was Re-sorb, from Tractor supply. It jels in their stomachs and slows the poops down. One calf was a day old (if that) and could not hold his head up. He is now almost 2 and a huge boy. Follow directions, it's half a gallon twice a day. Cost is about $2.50 for each dose, it's two part that you mix together and feed with bottle. Lizi

How much are you feeding the calves and is it a good quality milk replacer, one with a milk products in it not soy bean products? You have 13 baby calves that will each require a 50 lb bag of milk at $50 dollars a bag and you can't afford a $140 vet bill?

The average vet has little or no knowledge as to how to raise a calf. Listen to topside1. You cannot beat experience and he has it. Over feeding a calf is IMO the worse thing you can do for a bottle calf. More calves are killed with good intentions than anything else.

Thanks for all the help guys!!! As far as the amount of milk and price we got a 50# bag for 80 bucks and the way these guys eat will last a little bit. Plus the 13 are not all mine I have a friend who bought 6 of them they are just staying here for a bit til her barn is ready I only have 7 of my own. The vet was here last friday (the day after I bought them) and gave them all their shots plus an immuno boost shot for each and a B 12 to one. They were not scouring then. That started sunday. She charged us 140 to just come out then I had to pay another 80 for all the shots. My friend split it with me but to have them come again we just don't have the extra right now unless we get to emergency status. Right now all calves are perky and full of energy so we are trying to fix this ourselves.

The milk replacer is made by land o lakes and is only one they sell around here that I have seen. It is medicated.

What is so bad about these calves is they came from a sale barn and around these parts we have some farmers who when they have a bull calf they know it is going to the sale barn and being a jersey is a guarenteed sale barn trip. so they make a long cold trip in a truck to be subjected to god knows what at the sale barn then another long trip in a cold truck to get where they are going. Mine however only had one cold ride as I had them all snuggly in the back of my truck. Load was tarped real good cause when we got here we opened the back and was nice and cozy in there. These calves also might not have had the mothers first milk. with sale barn calves ya don't know ya just assume. I could not stand to see the little guys go to someone who don't care if they live or die. so I bought them. I am a sucker for a doe eyed face!!! LOL!!!

TJ I live in the piedmont lake area, it is close to cambridge. Where is your friend at? I would welcome someone to come give me advice on these. I was raised on a dairy farm but we never had all these problems as our calves were born right there on the farm and any we shipped out had mommas milk first that was a must.

tonight we gave them a dose of penecillian and electrolites. also gave them 1/4 cup of oatmeal. an old timer here told me that would help abosrb the liquid and coat the stomach and intestines so they can heal. Made sense to me. I have been giving each about 1/4 cup of starter grain for the last couple days by hand. they really love that!!!!! LOL I have one that soon as he sees me coming he runs up to the fence and opens his mouth!! he is sooo funny!!!!

Ok my book is long enough. I think I have answered everyones questions. You guys are so nice on here I love reading about everyones farms and animals. We raise pigs, chickens, calves, dogs and cats and oh yeah 1 bunny!!(he is demented!! LOL!!)

That immuno boost is expensive.http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.h...5-99bb88c85c4eIt's still not anything you couldn't get and use yourself. I think your vet wouldn't last to long here. A good vet should consider your bottom line as well as theirs. I would be looking for a vet that was willing to work with me a little more.

I wish we could get vets around here. We have two large animal vets to serve a 6 county radius, and they both charge alot to just come see your animal. I guess I am in the wrong profession instead of raising animals I should have gone to vet school then I could treat my own babies. They claim that the new vet students do not want to work with large animals due to the risk of injury with them. They all want to be small animal vets. So if anyone out there is going to vet school or wants to, SE ohio could use a few good large animal vets.

I just was out with my babies and I feel so sorry for them as I know they fell bad. I just am not sure what to do for them. We did the electrolites and I am not seeing much change at all. they are starting to thin down and I am scared that is bad. I just don't know if going back on the milk is right. If you were feeding a human baby with milk and it got the runs ya would not stop the milk but give it AND electrolites, right? so why isn't that how it should be for calves?? This is just another reason to have my own cow and birth my own calves right here on the farm instead of buying them at sale barns. I have baby pigs born here all the time and we rarely ever lose one!!!!! If we do it is usually a runt and is not from sickness but some accidental thing like someone left something out and baby got out and into it. and then we usually catch anything we do like that before we have a prob as my pigs are grand escape artists!!! LOL!!! Miss daisy's kids use to love to run out to the front of the barn and I swear one would keep watch and let the others know when we caught them and they would run back in the pen and lay there looking like "whats the matter mom??" bad pigs!! LOL Now if my calves would just get better so I could have fun with them too!!
Thanks for all your help guys!!! I think I might have to talk to a higher authority for some more help too.

Which vet did you have out?
We have two large animal vets about a half hour from you. The new one at Barnesville/Woodsfield is great and does consider the bottom line. I'm really liking her.

How far are you from Barnesville? I recognize Piedmont Lake, but can never remember just how far away it is. 20 miles according to dad...depending on where you are...lol
I maybe have some time tomorrow to come out and look if you are interested. It would have to be early though.

I'm starting to appreciate my access to good vets a whole lot more. we've used spectam, its a red oral scour medicine for pigs just up the dose for calves, should be available at your feed store. We start new bottle calves out with a half of feeding of 3/4 strenght milk and slowly work them up from there to where we want them over the next week or so. 13 head of sale barn calves makes a steep learning curve.

Are the calves still eating, coming to you ready to eat, willing to take the bottle or are they just messing around when they eat? If they are up and eating aggressivly and the scours are slowing down you are gaining. If they are just messing around and not eating good you need to find some help.

We lost the *best* large animal vet a little over a year ago. He recovered from a brain aneurysm, only to be killed while working a cow tied with a rope. The poor farmer could not get it from around his neck in time.

We've have large animal vets in and out since then. THere is anotehr alrge animal vet in the area, but we are pretty loyal to B'ville/Woodsfield Vet Office.
Mostly because they will sell me about any drug I ask for. I job shadowed there and so the owner knows me well.
The last vet before this new one was just fabulous. I liked her a lot! She worked on a doe for two hours (after we had spent 6 hours working on her). She loved talking shop with me and I learned a lot from her.

The newest vet was raised on a dairy farm in PA, which is a bonus. I've only hd a couple of experiences with her so far, both goat related. Goat related is usually a big test for a vet. They are taught so little about goat vetting.


Anyways, I'm babbling.

Yes doc Claugus was the best!!!!!!!!!! I loved that man for the way he had with animals. He also did not mince words with you about how things were. Many years ago I also worked in their office for the summer for a 4 H project I was taking. It was his dad I was there with. Fred was about to go to college if my memory has not went pooey on me LOL!! I had Kemps new vet out here this summer for a calf we had that had a stroke we think and she only charged 35 to come out and no service fee. This time however they whammied me!!!!!!!! So my funds got real tight real fast!!!!!

Allen, the calves are still coming eagerly for their bottles and eating very good!!!!!!! they are so ornery ya would not know they are sick except the poop is like water and they are thin. I saw a couple that the poop was a bit more pudding like last night but most are still watery.

Glad they are eating. Hope they are better today. If there still scouring I would give them some more scour pills or some spectam, most are twice a day multiple day products. You should be able to find them at your feed store. Keep them dry and their pens clean. Fresh air and sunshine are good for them if you can get them outside during the day.

If one happens to slow down eating or not eat pnemonia is very possible when they are weakend from scours. You'll have to see a vet to get some baytrill or a similar drug. Oenicillion or LA200 won't get the job done.

Thanks for the advice Allen!! I will watch for that closely. I think we might, and I say might slowly be turning the tables here. We saw good poop last night out of several of them!!! Got a few still runny but we are working on them. Stall is dry and clean and several were feeling quite spry last night as they were running around kicking up their heels playing. I just hope it is not the calm before the storm. Roseanne is going to try to stop over today to have a look see at them and see what she thinks.

On the Baytril how many doses do they get how often?? I had some jerseys last year, was only a couple, and they were quite ill when I got them and I thought 1 was gonna make it but I lost him also. I had a vet come out and he gave them a shot of baytril and said they only needed one dose and would be fine. Bucky made it like a week after he did that then died, the others died with in a day or two but they were very ill. It was diagnosed by the vet that they has pnenumonia and bucky had upper respiratory. Bucky was healthier then the rest. Tha's why I wondered about the dosage.

I really appreciate all your time!!! Thanks!!!

Once the herd is out of the woods, (usually 3-4 weeks old) post some photos of this gang...thanks....TJ

Sounds like your winning. Unless you get a nasty weather change you should be alright.

About the baytril question I would give one shot of baytril, if no improvement in 24 to 48 hours give them something else. There are several other high powered drugs on the market baytril is one of the newer ones, if I understand correctly its pretty specific for respiratory infections. It really sounds like your calves last year were to far gone when you got them. Baby calves don't have the reserves to fight off an illness that a bigger calf would. You have to stay on top off them and treat them quickly.

Hopefully you can get established with a vet where you can purchase some of the prescription drugs without having to pay a vet call all of the time.

Just a tip. To determine if a calf is dehydrated used your thumb and fore finger to grasp the hide over the calves ribs and pull outward. Release the hide and if the hide returns to its original flat location the calf is not dehydrated. If the hide remains outward in a tent fashion when released then the calf is dehydrated.

Ok to update everyone. Yesterday I was paid a wonderful visit from Roxeanne!!!!!! We had a wonderful time talking calves and about anything you can imagine!! LOL!! She is a wealth of help!!!!!!! I greatly appreciate her taking the time and gas to come see my babies and me!!!! Again Thanks Roseanne!!!!!
Ok now my babies. I think we might be winning some but I am skeptical yet!!!!!!!!! Red got down this morning and I called the vet in as I thought was pnenumonia since he was a bit raspy and would not eat all his breakfats and was coughing. Well Doc Mallory came and she said no pnenumonia but he was severely dehydrated which I had been doing eletroylites but it was not enough so she gave him an IV and several shots of meds and tonight he seems a bit chipper but is still not getting up and playing around like the rest.

We are still dealing with the runs I am afraid!!!!! We saw 2 tonight with them still and another one of mine is acting funny so he is on eletrolites now and will see how he does in the morning. I am going ot get up every two hours tonight to give him a bottle so he don't end up like red. So far his skin retracts great.

Agmantoo I knew how to check the skin and had been doing that but red went down real fast. I had been giving him bottles all day yesterday and skin was retracting real good last night but bam this morning he was like 12% dehydrated. Yeah really bad!!!!!!!! Doc says if love could make something live, red will be fine!! LOL!! I am 86 bucks poorer but I guess we just tighten our belts this pay!!!! I could lose a few pounds!!! LOL

ok I am off to make water for my babies. Hope everyone is having a great weekend!

Try Pepto in their bottles. I have done it before with the goat kids, they always cleared right up within a day or two. Might work for you. What is your plan for these calves?

Patty.

They will probably be beef at some point. For now they are my babies and are just tooooo cute!!! Roseanne and I was watching them play tonight. She came back over to help me with red as he was down again. She taught me how to use an iv for him and after she left I went out to the barn and the little devil was up on his own walking all around in the barn. He was checking out the new cement we just poured yesterday!!! Little bugger was having a blast!!! He also ate an entire 2 qt bottle of his feed tonight!!!!! Yahoo!!!!!!! I am not getting overly excited yet as we are far from out of the woods on him. He was up last night too and was back down flat this morning. We are getting the runs in check on most I think, we still have three with them. Hopefully the next couple of days will have them all cleared up. I want to thank everyone for all your advice and help!!

Have a great week!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I will post pics as soon as everyone is out of the woods. It will have to be a link to my albums on photobucket as I have no clue how to post pics on the website. Puter literate I am not!!! LOL!!!

Be careful about giving them antibiotics. It can make the scours worse. Cattle are just bags of skin full of microbes that digest their food. Antibiotics can kill the microbes and cause scouring.

Genebo
Paradise Farm

re-sorb is really good to use from what i hear

but there was this other stuff that i used when my calves had it really bad i cant remember the name. i got it from i think tsc it was really good stuff made there poop in like a sack type thing and gave my 2 that were sick lots of enegry and it was really think stuff it you left it sit too long it would harden in the bottle

but dont use bounce back that never worked for me it helped them like a day but its like sugar water.

man im ----ed i forgot the name of it but i should be heading there today or tomorrow ill be able to look at it then i think it was like 1.50-2.50 a pack and it takes 4-5 feedings

I think your refering to Advance, that stuff gets really thick quick. and also works awesome.

it was like a white package with a cow and grass and a sun on the package

it worked great for me cleared it right up they have like a 86% turn around rate some where on there package as well

Most of the calves looked quite improved yesterday when I went back. Still some scouring, but most were stiffening up and they were bouncing around and playing outside in the sunshine.
We gave Red some Lactated Ringers solution sub-Q to try and get him rehydrated. It is amazing stuff to have on hand. If only it wasn't vet prescription only!
I am cautiously optimistic about the fate of the remaining 12.

here is a trick i have learned with young calves. with the scours. may not make sence but it sure does help. get them on hay as fast as possible and make them some jello. yes jello does work. keep it in water form and feed it in a bucket. doesnt matter what kind or flavor. it will help slow them down also get them wormed, wished i was near id help you. also sale barns are the worst place to get calves. and believe me i know how hard it is to find what you are looking for. i have been looking for a jersey calf for about a year now. and havent found one. and yes i go to the auctions,

You dont half have your hands full, good luck with them all!

I've raised a few calves and dealt with scours a few times. I bought a sick Jersy calf when I didn't know what I was doing and after a hundred dollars and four days, she died in my lap. I've read homesteadingtoday for awhile and have seen several threads started by well intentioned folks that bought calves without any prior experience, knowledge, equipment or medication. The helpful folks here have been very reactive in a time we should be proactive.

We offer sympathy after scours and pnemonia kill them, when we should be warning against venturing into this difficult business before those doe-like brown eyes swoon us into poor choices.

In this thread the most common advice has been to reduce the milk/milk replacer and the fact that over feeding is the quickest way to promote scours. Now, just as it seems the calves will survive, the good news is, "He also ate an entire 2 qt bottle of his feed tonight!!!!! Yahoo!!!!!!! ". If that's milk or milk replacer, a half gallon seems like a lot and is a recipe for another bout of scours. Sadly, a calf that's just recovering from scours seldom survives a second over-feeding. Electrolytes, yes, more milk, no.

I'm trying to be helpful, but I'm sure some will be angered by my "bluntness". While I'm in this deep, I might as well add that it is foolish to take on a group of someone else's calves when you lack the basic knowledge to keep one alive. What happens if they all drop dead? I'm sure it is between friends, but without a written understanding you get left on the hook for more than your share of the Vet bill and risk damaging your friendship for any of the likely deaths.

I hope this has a happy ending, while I also hope others will be much better prepared before going to a sale barn.

I think your bluntness refreshing Haypoint, and well taken! Before reading this thread and the other one on sale barn calfs I would have been sucked in by those big eyes if I had had land that would support a cow and been whammied by my lack of know how and its needs:o

I still think its a good way to get a few meat cows for not much money but when time comes I will try to have all my meds and things ready to hand.

Fair play to those of you who do buy them and get them through the danger weeks though :bow:

Speaking of which, how are they doing this morning, esp. Red who had grabbed my heart without me even seeing him LOL

Ok for another update. So far so good!!!!!!!!!!

Gbov red is a baby to hook ya for sure!! He is a gurnsey not a jersy and cute as a button!!!!! He is still thin but he gets up for his bottle now and just loves to sit in my hubby's lap!!!!!!!!!!!! Thats where hubby feeds him!! I want to see him do that when red weighs alot more!! LOL!!! Without Roseanna's help teaching me how to do an iv red would not have made it this far.

As for the friend and I doing this together she comes to help feed and muck out the stalls so she is taking care of her own calves. I am just holding them here til she can take them home in Nov. So she makes her own decisions on her babies. Right now she herself is sick and I feel for her!!!!!!!!! So I am feeding for her right now. Told her stay home get better!! I had to be gone yesterday so she came up and gave them their electrolytes for me. '

Ok as for me being excited about the amount of milk he drank the milk replacer amount was not raised only the water amount was. At that time the calves were gettign 4-5 ozs of milk replacer. But 2 qts of water in it to help keep them hydrated.

Hope this clears up what I have done. I tend to get excited when a baby does something good and am not clear on what I meant. I seem to think everyone is here on the farm or are mind readers LOL!! No offense taken at all haypoint!! I like someone who speaks their mind and I am always open to ideas and thoughts. Thanks for your input!! I am thinking about buying calves from Roseanna for the next ones. I went to her farm yesterday and let me tell you she has some cuties!!!!!!!!!!!!! Her milk cows are beautiful!!!!!!! I saw several calves I could have easily brought home they are soooo sweet!!

Ok well thats the update so far on the kids. Each day they make it is another good day. Got to love em!!!!!!!

its one day responce

its $2.50 a pack if you want i can get you some and ship it to you its at rko and i think that store is only in ohio its the only place i have found it but im telling you it works really good

Okay, it's time for another update! And where are those pictures??

Hope it's all going well.

Ok here it is update for the week. so far..............

Lil tyke is doing fantastic!! Smallest of the lot but is a fiesty one!!!!!! LOL

Buck has some muck in his right eye but vet saw pics I took of it and she said not to worry about it. I am still not sure on that. eye is clear and it is not pink eye but he has a greenish white wad in it about every morning and some through the day. otherwise he is doing great.

Socks is eating like a pig on calf primer as well as his milk bottles. he is the biggest of the bunch.

Nosey is doing great also he does have a small lump on the bottom of his neck but I don't think it is anything to worry about at this time. eats great!!

Gaylord now here is a calf from you know where!!!!!!!! I am constantly trying to get him to behave!! he is very ornery!! he is doing super well. eats the primer good and his milk bottles.

Paddy is doing well also except he has a knot on the side of his jaw. Vet saw pics and said he probably poked his mouth with a piece of hay and that it would probably work itself out to just watch it. right now it is hard as a rock not soft. I do think it might have been smaller tonight. He looks like a ol farmer from yester year with a huge chaw in!!! LOL!! It don't hamper his eating at all he is a good eater!!

Red on the other hand is doing some better. I had to get more anitbiotics for him and I am thinking myabe one more dose just might get him up and going!! got a dose of nuflur (sp) monday and gave him and vet said if he was not better and up after this shot there was no hope and to put him down or just wait him out and see what happens. well he told her cause he is very alert and eating all his 2 qt bottles just fine plus a qt of electrlytes at noon. still not crazy about the primer pellets though. does chew some hay. tonight he tried very hard to get up on his own and he got his butt up about 4 inches and would fall back so I gave him a little lift help and up he came that is the most he has done to get up in 3 weeks!!!!!!! I was quite proud of him!!!!!!!!! his eyes are still watering bad but lungs sound alot clearer now. nose don't seem to be running as bad either. still has a greenish yellow stool thats pretty loose about like unset instant pudding after beating the full time on it. I know makes ya not want pudding no more!!! LOL!! Sorry but I don't know what else to compare it too!!

ok so there is the update on the babies. all 7 of my original purchase are still living!!!!!!!!!

you can go to this website and see pics of all the critters here. I have not got individual pics of them yet but plan to this weekend if they cooperate!! they are lil buggers to get pics of as they so not like to stand still!!!!!!! except paddy and socks they are quite photogenic!!! LOL!!!

http://s216.photobucket.com/albums/c...arm%20animals/

this link will show you all our critters we have here. enjoy!!!