Pasturizing?
 

Having now watched the local herd go up the hill to pasture for a second summer and watched them go from just out of the shed and covered in muck and mire in the spring to middle of July and they are ALMOST clean enough to think "yep, I might actually drink something from them if I can get the power washer out after them first" I now see the need for pasturizing milk from a large herd.

BUT, should a one cow family use a small pasturizer or can you get your cow tested for any nasty that you would be treating the milk for? I know that a healthy looking animal isnt nessisarily going to give healthy milk but will giving your cow a wash before milking and keeping good milk practices be enough?

Home pasturizers cost heaps but if its going to keep the kids and I safe it would be money well spent but if not its money better in our pockest than in a piece of useless kit.

Thanks

Lots of folks drink raw cows and goats milk without any adverse side effects. There seem to be more positive benefits to not pasteurizing than there are possible negative effects from it.

You dont need any special tools to pasterize milk. You just heat the milk to a certain temp and hold it there for a certain amount of time. This can be done in (gasp) a regular pot.:p

Plenty of people drink raw milk though.

You can have the milk tested if you are worried about bad bac. too. Don't forget that people have been drinking the milk from their own cows udders, mostly w/o dying, for a long time.

A good clean udder, a healthy animal, safe milk handling practices...no problems.

I drink raw, and since then my lactose intolerance has gone away. Life is good =)

I pasteurize my goats' milk, in a regular pan, double-boiler style. Actually, I just place a pan in a wider pan that has water in it.
Heat to 165 degrees, stir, and cool. I use a probe thermometer bought at the grocery or Walmart, and I sit the pan in a sink of ice water to cool before refrigerating. It's easy and all you need is the cheap thermometer.
mary

I pasteurize our milk just to be on the safe side. Everyone is right, you don't need any special equipment; but my home pasteurizer sure makes the job easier. You can probably get a used pasteurizer on Ebay for a reasonable price. Just make sure the seller guarantees it to work right.

I've drunk raw milk for over 30 years and I'm still here. So are all my family. Why kill off all the things that are beneficial in milk. Good hygiene practices should be all you need. And the milk will taste much better too for not being pasturized.

Cheers,
Ronnie

If the milking critter is tested for diseases, why NOT trust the milk? It's safer than any of the white water they call milk in the stores.
Contamination is when the udder isn't cleaned properly, or something gets into it. 99% of the time this is how the milk is contaminated--lazy, sloppy milking.

Why go thru all the cost and routine of having milk animals, if you are going to do almost the same thing to it as the stores do? What is the point? More stuff to clean/sanitize to boot......:shrug: No thanks!

Trust yourself, know your critter(s) health, and have good, clean hygene.
I will say (not to start any arguements!) Raw Milk is beneficial to our health, pastuerized is not. Check out this link and decide for yourself: http://http://www.raw-milk-facts.com/what_is_in_raw_milk.html
Yes, I milk a cow, and yes, drink raw milk. Have for years. If I want dead milk, I'll just sell the cow and buy the stuff from the store.

There seems to something romantic about drinking raw milk. Having your family cow tested is a good start. But really, disease isn't the only concern. I have seen family cows get mastitis, pus and infection in the milk. It can come on quickly, so unless you test every pail, at some point you'll be feeding teet infection to your children. Lots of things contribute to mastitis in a family cow. Rough or inexperienced hand milking, late or missed milking seem to go hand in hand with mastitis.
Every day we consume various amounts of germs and we do just fine. The milk industry has done a consistently excellent job of keeping milk free of virus, bacteria and white blood cells (pus) that most of us don't know of the dangers that moved us to insist on pasteurized milk. If "I've drank raw milk for a hundred years and I'm still alive." is good enough for you, go for it. Otherwise you could contact your state's Department of Agriculture and get their opinion.

Many people drink raw milk and that's certainly ok by me; but our fourteen-year-old daughter developed JRA, years ago. The doctor said it was probably caused by a strep germ. After that, I have always pasteurized our milk just to be on the safe side. It is certainly not because I don't use sanitary measures either. It is wrong to make the assumption that just because someone chooses to pasteurize their milk, it is because they don't use sanitary milking practices. I will put my facilities and cleanliness up against yours, Jay, or anyone elses.

I wouldn't call it romantic... more like being in control of what you ingest.

Obviously from bad milking practices.

Again, obviously from bad milking practices.

Yep, I'll never forget a book I read back in the 80's or so, it was titled "The Book of Lists"... you should look it up. One of the lists was about the dirtiest consumer foods that we commonly eat. Included was the U.S.D.A. standards for the amounts of bug parts, rodents hairs, etc., that was allowed to be in our food by law. It was really enlightening but not for the squeamish.

Yep, and we also know that they have done a consistently excellent job of keeping milk full of steriods, antibiotics and who knows what else.

[/QUOTE]If "I've drank raw milk for a hundred years and I'm still alive." is good enough for you, go for it.[/QUOTE]

Maybe not from one person but from tens of thousands, not to mention grandparents, aunts, cousins and others... ummm, I think I'll trust them.

And of course we all know that they know the best answer for everything and everyone.

Oh ewwww oh ewwww oh ewww bleeechk, the book of lists, yep, I remember that one, the bit about whats in chocolate still stays in my brain as I eat a bar :grit:

We milk our jersey and drink her milk with out ever having any problems. Cleaning the udders and having clean equipement is a must. But nothing taste better than real milk.

Linn, while I sympathise with you and your daughter, there would seem to be no conclusive evidence that she contracted JRA through the milk. The doctor saying that is was "probably" through a strep germ is pretty vague. And what is JRA?

Thousands around the world drink raw milk either by choice or because that is all that is available, and we're not falling over in droves, and whats more, nor did our ancestors or none of us would be here.

For those that wish to pasturize, go for it. There is no way anybody is going to convince me that my milk will be better, taste better or be healthier for me because it's pasturized.

Cheers,
Ronnie

or you can try to "slow" pastuerize the milk. it would kill the bad guys and not hurt the good guys in the milk. heat to 145(f) and hold for 30 minutes then cool below 40(f) should keep the milk safe for 7 to 10 days. or 161(f) for 15 seconds.

Ronney, JRA is Juvenile Rheumatoid Arthritis; and when you watch your child suffer with such a disease, there is no way you would be willing to take that chance again. I am not against drinking raw milk. If only my husband and I were drinking the milk, I probably wouldn't pasteurize either; but we share with our family, so I prefer to pasteurize. It is just a matter of personal preference. By the way, everyone who has tasted our milk, says it tastes great. Everyone should use the method they think is right for them. I am not trying to convince anyone to pasteurize their milk; but I don't expect them to post monologues on the benefits of raw milk and how pasteurizing ruins milk, just because I make the choice to pasteurize mine. I also resent the inference that milk borne diseases are all caused by the lack of hygiene or that people pasteurize their milk because their methods and facilities are not hygienic.

Mastitis is not always caused by bad milking practices. A cow can sustain an injury in the pasture from another animal or a cut. Flies are notorious disease carriers and can cause mastitis and can carry disease from one cow to another.

LOL same here LOL

I taste the (yes, warm) milk from each quarter before I begin milking.....it's my "quick taste test" if something is amiss or not.
Generally, when udder/teat washing and drying, or even the cows' attitude, you'll find if something is "brewing" or amiss.

My taste test is for "just in case". Only once has my cow ever had mastitis (in just one quarter) in all her 12+ years, and it was this last freshining. And of course, it wasn't HER fault, it was mine. (Operator error--long story!)

Sloppy milking practices is mostly what I find in a large dairy, not those milking at home. WE drink the milk, and so are extra careful, because we literally depend on a healthy, clean cow to give us the same in the milk.

To pasteurize or not IS a personal decision, yes, but not for me, no offense meant.

I've also heard drinking warm milk (fresh from the cow) helps with arthritis....I do know I have less "creaky knees" with my daily "taste tests".

Jay, I have heard that also. DH and I tried it for a little while; but I am not that big of a milk drinker, so we didn't pursue it for very long. I do have arthritis though, so if you find out it helps you, let me know. For the sake of my joints, I can slug down some warm milk straight from the cow, twice a day. LOL

G-to answer your question-

"BUT, should a one cow family use a small pasturizer or can you get your cow tested for any nasty that you would be treating the milk for? I know that a healthy looking animal isnt nessisarily going to give healthy milk but will giving your cow a wash before milking and keeping good milk practices be enough?"

You can and should have any cow you buy tested for three things-
TB, Brucellosis, and Johnes (pronounced yo-nees)

If she tests fine for those three, then you are set to go as far as what could be in the milk literally from INSIDE the udder.

Past that-YES-washing and good milking practices WILL be enough.

One note-someone mentioned that the cow could have mastitis, I guess implying that you could get sick from it. Ive never heard of such a thing...do you know this for fact? I would like to glean your research on it, if you dont mind sharing?

Jay, you are kidding us about your "taste test" as a recommended method for the detection of infection, aren't you? You can taste cow pus in an infected cow? How is it that you are discovering sloppy practices in big dairies and good practices in home milking? What are the numbers in your "survey" of milking operations, big and small?
People are not dying in droves by drinking raw milk, but they are dying. Mostly in third world countries. Prior to pasturization, people in this country got sick and some died as a result of disease spread thru milk. All milk has bovine growth hormones in it, even your homestead cow. All commercial milk is tested to be free of antibiotics.
Mastitis is an infection in the teet and/or bag, white blood cells, comonly called pus. White blood cells are a body's way of surrounding bacteria. When a cow has mastitis, the pus comes out in the milk. When it gets bad enough it is actually stringy.
MaryB: Wikipedia says-"Mastitis can be classified as milk stasis, non-infectious or infectious inflammation and abscess." It goes on to say that you can't tell which it is unless you run a lab test on it.
There are other diseases that pasturization protects you from. Testing for TB, Brucellosis, and Johnes is a good start towards healthy milk, but falls short of offering you complete protection.

If your milking situation resembles the unsanitary practices that occur in 3rd world countries, then by all means you should be pasteurizing your milk.

And in case you weren't aware there is a difference between naturally occurring growth hormones and added hormones given to commercial stock.

This has been an interesting thread. Just wanted to share my experience with raw vs pasturized, for what it's worth.

I used to have digestive problems. I tried everything to heal it. Nothing worked until about 6 months ago when I discovered kefir made with raw milk. I realized right away that it helped but I wasn't expecting a permanent cure. Well, the longer I drank it the better I felt until one day I realized that I don't even have a health problem anymore. Because my digestion works so much better I've been generally healthier and more energetic.

I just lost my source for raw milk so I'm back to using pasturized till I can get a cow here. My stomach is not happy and is letting me know.

I just don't get the same health benefits when I use pasturized milk. I don't know what the difference is chemically, or why it works, I just know my body thrives on raw milk kefir. Even my kefir grains are healthier and grow faster on raw milk than pasturized.

Here's what convinced me to give raw a try: http://www.realmilk.com/what.html

"Pasteurization destroys enzymes, diminishes vitamin content, denatures fragile milk proteins, destroys vitamins C, B12 and B6, kills beneficial bacteria, promotes pathogens and is associated with allergies, increased tooth decay, colic in infants, growth problems in children, osteoporosis, arthritis, heart disease and cancer. Calves fed pasteurized milk do poorly and many die before maturity."

Just my two cents. :)

http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/NEWS/2007/NEW01576.html
There is a wealth of informatioon here. I couldn't think of listeria, but they've got that covered. I doubt any amount of facts will change a person's beliefs about milk.

There is nothing "romantic" about drinking raw milk. Please give us raw milk drinkers enough credit to think that we may just have done the research and made the decision rationally.
Raw milk is awesome and we drink it for all the benefits and always have. Look into it and make your own decision. "The Milk Book" is a really great read.
Oh, and unless your cow is truly dirty(pastured cows are *usually* clean), washing the udder/teats is just helping any possible bacteria to spread. Water is the perfect medium for bacteria. A dry clean udder just needs wiped down with a dry rag before milking to loosen and get rid of any grass or loose hair on the udder.
So if you do have to use water to clean, be especially careful to get the udder dry again.

Emily would ya happen to know who wrote "The Milk Book" ? I'd like to give it a read but am having trouble finding it. Thanks:)

The only milking I have ever done was when I was about 12 - much too long ago lol - but I remember the goats owner using warm soapy water to wash his goats udders and his hands and ours before he would let us any where near his animals. A bit protective he was lol

Linn, of course I should have known what JRA was - it was the J that threw me. At the end of the day, you have to go with what your comfortable with and and what is right for you.

Emily, you put that very well. When it all boils down, it is personal choice.

Cheers,
Ronnie

Interesting! I have noticed that my fibromiyalgia seemed to be less painful but I didn't connect it to drinking raw. But come to think of it, it did start getting better around the same time as I started milking.
Now if it could just help with carpal tunnel......

Sure thing, its on my shelf. Its written by William Campbell Douglass II, MD. Its pretty pricey some places and in others its reasonable. If your ever down this way again, you could borrow mine.:)

Haypoint-do you know that the largest ourbreak of illness from milk happened with pastuerized milk?
And what else would you suggest I test for other than TB, B, and J? You really have me curious.
Mary

This happens with pasturized milk because when bad bacteria is present in pasturized milk for any reason, there is no good bacteria to counter it.
When bad bacteria is present in raw milk for any reason there is also good bacteria present to counter it.
When pasturized milk "goes bad", it breeds bad bacteria and will make you ill.
When raw milk "goes bad" it just clabbers and it can still be safely used. It has everything to do with the good bacteria present in raw milk.

Thanks for looking it up I really appreciate it:)
Thanks Emily thats real nice of ya to offer and if I'm back down there I might just take ya up on your offer
:)

"Haypoint-do you know that the largest ourbreak of illness from milk happened with pastuerized milk?
And what else would you suggest I test for other than TB, B, and J? You really have me curious. Mary"
I think I would be concerned about listeria and blue tounge. Farm dairies are checked daily for bacteria count, I believe. Anyway, just review the web site I offered and make your choices based on science instead of the often popular, "Ain't kilt me yet." theme. Besides there is no loss of nutrition, so what's the point?
Listeria monocytogenes
Brucella spp.
E Coli
Campylobacter spp.
Mycobacterium bovis
Coxiella burnetti (causes Q fever)
Salmonella spp.

From 2000 to 2005 there have been 44 illnesses reported from pasturized milk and 473 cases reported from raw milk, dispite the fact that raw milk represents about 1 % of the milk consumed in states that allow it. This includs 7 deaths, of which 3 were infants.
Since 1998, there have been 800 pedople reported sick from drinking raw milk.
In December 2005, Woodland WA 18 people got sick from raw milk thru a milk share. Five were hostitalized. Two children contracted Hemolytic Uremic Syndrome (HUS).
www.cfsan.fda.gov/~ear/milksafe.html

From Wikipedia:

Bluetongue disease or catarrhal fever is a non-contagious, insect-borne viral disease of ruminants, mainly sheep and less frequently of cattle,[1] goats, buffalo, deer, dromedaries and antelope. It is caused by the Bluetongue virus.
There are no reports of human transmission. Although the tongues of human patients with some types of heart disease may be blue, this sign is not related to bluetongue disease.
---------------------------
So how does having your cow tested for blue tongue make the milk safer?

Listeria is spread by food products touching contaminated surfaces. So far as I know it is not something you can test your cow for. Humans in the US more commonly get it from deli meats or hotdogs than from raw milk

Brucella spp.
In our area cows are required to be vaccinated for brucellosis

E Coli If your milking practices are clean it most likely will not be a problem. Commercial ground beef is a lot more likely place to catch it.

Campylobacter spp.--Again, be clean

Mycobacterium bovis--is the causative agent for bovine tb, not a separate disease.

Coxiella burnetti (causes Q fever) Never heard of it before. I looked it up and it does sound scary, but must be very rare or I think we would hear more about it.

Salmonella spp.--Be clean and it is highly unlikely to be a problem.

Haypoint, no one is trying to make you drink raw milk. Many of us know that we and our families are healthier and happier drinking clean raw milk from our clean, healthy dairy animals. If you choose to stick with pasteurized that is your business. Your scare tactics are pointless.

E Coli is naturally occurring in the barn. I don't take a chance. I cook my hamburger through; I pasteurize my milk.

JHinCA, I was responding to the question on what else to test for. Since there was a recent ouitbreak of Blue tounge in cattle in Michigan, I thought that might be something a person would want to check for. Milk can be tested for Listeria, but it is easier to simply kill the contaminants thru pasturazation.
I listed the contaminates/diseases/bacteria that were found in raw milk that caused hundreds of people in this country to get sick or die in the past few years. I believe that every person that is milking cows and drinking or selling raw milk are practicing safe milking practices and have good intentions. Dispite all that, people got sick by the hundreds each year over the past decade. Were those sickneses and deaths avoidable? Yes, by simply heating the milk to kill the bacteria, we could reduce the deaths asssociated with raw milk.
There is no nutritional advantage to raw milk over pasturized, none.
E Coli is a problem. Rather than caution consumers to simply cook their hamburger, millions of pounds were recalled and dumped. The same advice applies to raw milk: simply cook it.
You've got the facts, they don't jive with what you want to believe, so just keep on with your good bacteria attacking the bad bacteria mumbo jumbo. I'll pray that your name doesn't show up on the next set of USDA/MDA report on raw milk borne illnesses.

Haypoint, this goes both ways and applies very well to both you and me.

One persons mumbo jumbo is another persons facts. Facts/studies are only as good as the power behind them....and most are done to prove one sides point or the other.....studies are done by humans and until humans are perfect, their studies will be imperfect and many times skewed.
I can find many, many studies that "prove" how beneficial raw milk is....it isn't going to change your mind.
The milk in the grocery stores must be pasturized, absolutely. Its the only way it can be halfway safe for the public to drink. It comes from thousands of dairys with thousands of cows. It is *not* fresh by the time it hits grocerstore shelves and if it wasn't pasturized....oh boy.
Some dairymen and dairyworkers have a sense of responsibility and try their best to produce a good healthy product. Some do not. I have seen and known both.
But to say that drinking raw healthy milk is unsafe is just hogwash.

I certainly don't. I know human nature better than that and I have seen some milking techniques that would turn your stomach. Some people have an idea of cleanliness and responsibility and some people simply don't care. Its up to the consumer to check his sources and make sure he is getting a clean product. That is personal responsibility.
As for the milk sold in the stores? It is pasturized sure, but the pus, mastitic milk and manure that slips in in those dairies is still there......its just pasturized. What a yummy thought.