[[[WARNING]]]...Bulls are dangerous!!!
 

I see a lot of type on here about keeping a bull around the place when not totally necassary, keeping them as pets, and thinking sweet old intact George would never dream of turning on it's owner. Well, love me or hate me, but I just had to yell out to you all who's in dream land... BAD, BAD, BAD Idea!

Just imagine if you will, your sweet, loving wife who makes sure you got a hot meal for you when your in from a long day, rubs your sore shoulders, and breaks a sweat trying to get a stain out of your favorite shirt...yep, she's a good one alright, wouldn't even say a cross word at another either, then one day within a month BANG! Where'd that come from, who is she? Wonder if my head is still attatched? Your 'Lil candy cane turned into a sow grizzly over night and your sitting on her cub. At least with the nature of a woman, you know that sometime sooner or later her hormonal imbalance will rear up, but when your talking critters with thier goods still in place, it could come on at any minute of the day like a lightning strike. Thing is, with lightning, you at least know the weather is unstable, but with a bull you almost never see it coming. The bugger could be raised from a bottle and be the family friend for three straight years, and then one day after school your little daughter jumps off the bus to go and scratch 'Ol George's fuzzy jaw and offer him a handful of green grass just like every other day. Little does she realize, from George being in tact, caused by some odd effect from his hanging seed pods, George is about to get an extra shot of brain altering hormones much more than the usual amount. Now imagine going out to corral to tell your your little girl that suppers ready, and see her laying between the bull and the fence. Sounds bad to tell it like it is, but please keep this in mind. I bet I'm not the only one on here that is more than a little freaked out when we see so many folks let there gaurd down when we are talking bulls. They are beautiful to keep around and look at. They are fun to watch as they mature. It is amazing to watch them tend thier herd as nature intended to, but they are a loaded gun with not one doubt. If you do not trust those of us who've been around bulls our entire lives, may you never learn the hard way. Your life or your family's lives are not replaceable...

YIKES... a little passionate about this?

About 2 years ago, my neighbor's wife (who herself was raised farming and was as tough a woman as you could meet) was killed in an accident when she was trying to separate two bulls that were fighting. She lived long enough to be life-flighted from our local tiny hospital to a major trauma center, but died within a couple hours from massive internal injuries. She and her husband had been ranching cattle for years and years. It can happen to anyone, and the bulls (or cows for that matter) can be on you so quick. It's tempting to get so comfortable around your own "pet" cows and even a bull that you let your guard down and forget how amazingly strong and dangerous they are. In my mind, cattle can be far more dangerous than horses. Most horses will not run you right over, and most cattle will if they get a notion to.

100% true, we had beef cattle before goats and those bulls never got out of our eyes. My husband & I we had a rule that we both were to be there when moving any bull.

I'm trying to get my head around "someone who was farm raised" and who was "trying to separate two bulls who were fighting" :eek: Heck you cant even separate two DOGS who are fighting without risking major wounds.

we keep a bull do i trust him pretty much do i take my eyes off him never and would i break up a fight between 2 bulls not even if you had a gun to my head

for the record, I was NOT questioning the truth of the post... just sorta speechless at the passion with which the post was written :)

Dh feels as adamant against owning a bull as ya'll are saying... so I guess we'll take our girls elsewhere or do the AI thing.

having a bull around is like having a serial killer around, never take you eyes off them and alway have a plan to get out his way. I've never worked with Dexters, but have handled many holsteins, gurnseys, jerseys, brown swiss, I led them around by the ring and they followed me because they wanted to, I've seen a few holsteins with the ring torn out and the nose just flapping.. Herefords and angus weren't to bad although i did get worked over a little by an angus, my brother said, "lucky he didn't have horns", believe me they don't need horns to hurt you, even their head in hard when it's trying to gore you into the ground.. just lucky i could get under the truck.

I've always had beef cattle and am of the opinion that diary bulls are much more tempermental and dangerous. Perhaps because they are usually kept in closer contact with the owner. Beef bulls are out in open country more. However, I would never turn my back on a angus or hereford or other beef bull either. Lots of bad accidents have happened around bulls of every breed.

This thread is confirmation for us. Our little billybob is going to the freezer as soon as our girls are serviced. That will not be too soon for me.

Thanks for the reminder, we all need it and maybe we all need to be reminded of it once in a while.

Were you a bit passionate? Not in my book. People need to get this one really good.

ar

I'm glad you started this thread. Folks who haven't been around them need to be made aware of the potential dangers of an intact bull. Those of us who have spent time with them and do know the dangers also need a reminder from time to time not to become complacent. The power of these animals (not just bulls but other large animals as well) is hard to imagine for those who haven't experienced it. They can hurt you when they're just playing. When they're scared or angry, it's even worse. I was beat up more (severely a couple of times) by 1 bull than by all the steers and cows I've been around combined. Thanks for the reminder.

never had a problem with the bulls, just dont corner them, and keep an eye on them,

Dude. Chill. Do you think we're all idiots? No one here ever said they were going to send their little girl in with a bull by hersel'f and writing about the positives about having a bull on the farm does not exactly qualify as "letting our guards down" and throwing ourselves under the feet of a charging animal.

(snort) that was my initial thought! So you do think it was a bit passionate, no?

ROFL

The thing that you need to understand is you do not get even one free pass. You can go from startled to dead with one flick of the head even if it is not intended for you. Would you look down the barrel of a gun and pull the triger because the safety always works even when it is loaded?

I agree they can be dangerous. There was an older man I knew killed by a bull he had owned for years. The bull was "playing" and pushed him against the barn and crushed him. Then last summer a man was standing beside the pen and a ...horned bovine...I can't say if it was a bull or not, gored him through the fence. He died also.
Maybe the point is that NO animal is really safe if you aren't very careful, and even then not to trust any animal too much. Especially one that outweighs you.
We raised a whitetail deer once and when he matured he was a doosey. Anyone female was a mate for him and he didn't take to rejection. We had to take him to a reserve like place for our safety...... and his pleasure..lol

Doesn't matter if it's cow, pig, sheep, goose or whatever - if you're out working your critters, BE AWARE! If your kids or grandkids are out helping with the critters, BE AWARE! Things can change in a moment and things can go from bad to worse in a heartbeat.

We are not idiots, but a reminder is always good too! Sometimes a little complacency creeps in -

I bet every one on this forum has a dog, check the statistics on death from dog bites. The point is, if it has teeth, it will bite......if it has hooves, it will kick..........if it has horns, it will gore you. All animals are able to hurt a human, the most deadly animal on the farm is a ram sheep, and I've always known that a stud horse has one goal in life, and that is to commit suicide and take his handler with him. People have always had bulls on the farm, most of us don't have the money, or time to mess with AI ing a bunch of cows. A bull is not a pet or a playmate for anyone, neither is any other breeding animal. But, having said that, a little common sence goes a long way in animal safety, i.e. you don't let a child in a pen with an animal bigger that a baby chick, but that doesn't mean that it is dangerous to have a bull with a herd of cows.
P.J.

A little passionate about this subject? If by passionate meaning to express extreme concern from the heart, then YES I'm a lot passionate about this subject.

No one on HT is an idiot, but that doesn't mean some are unaware, take too many chances, or get way too comfortable around bulls. I didn't figure to be Mr. Popular when posting this thread, as of course I expected a chewing or two to follow, but thats ok, cause all I wanted to do is say to those possibly getting a little carried away, to stop, think again, and maybe save some grief.

I've been forgetful and unaware with bulls too! We've had bulls that you had to literally push out of the way and you could even play with thier horns a little (bad idea btw) they were so docile. Honestly with these types of bulls our gaurds were slowly being let down to the point were disaster nearly struck on some occasions. Spring time is escpecially hazardous when you got bulls around. They have the Spring itch, adrenaline is pumping harder, their real scratchy, rowdy and full of mood swings!

Oh ya, I know of a couple deaths by gentle bulls in this country too, and I got some hair raising experiences of my own... just a couple weeks ago I might add, but personal strories as well as any others arn't necassary to get the warning across. I do realize that being a homestead based site, many folks are just jumping into the raising of various farm critters that they've never yet been around, or at least since their younger years.

Sooo... this post is for the folks building thier ideas and plans with intact bulls in them! By all means, keep a bull or two or three around the place. Use them and enjoy them with both eyes on them at all times. I do wanna say though {IMHO} if anyone has ideas of making a work horse, training, or any type of close handling with a bull aside from letting him breed the girls, please strongly concider getting the guy fixed.

Also, I'm chilled out real nice, concerned most definately, but chilled like a snow drift. It would be disheartening though, to read a post on HT asking for immediate prayers for a family member on here, whose bull project went a little out of kilter. Am I right? Anyone not still agree that it's a topic needed to discuss?

One last thing... Sorry ladies for using your nature given alterations for an example in this thread, LOL! I had to use something to keep this post a little on the light side you know, just had the female fear fest on the brain I guess :stars: :D

Nothing with testicles is to be trusted......with the exclusion of gentlemen.;)
We have always kept bulls for breeding. They are never trusted, never petted and they are eaten by the time they hit 2-4 years old.
A *safe* bull/buck/stallion/ram does not exist and never will.
That said, the female of the species can be just as dangerous, its just not as likely. A bull is just hormones wrapped in a heck of a lot of muscle.

.
True story:

A man had a pet show bull he raised from a bottle. Won many ribbons.
They found him one day in the barn rolled up like a pile of road kill hamburger,
by FAMILY MEMBERS ! ! !

BULL COVERED WITH BLOOD ! ! !

ANY BULL CAN TURN ON YOU OR YOUR CHILDREN ! ! !


I have seen heifers and cows just as mean as a bull.

bumpus
.

I worked at a dairy that had to keep the bull in a old cement herd shower. He was mean mean mean. I also worked at a dairy that had teaser bulls in the herds. you needed to watch them every second of every minute when you brought up the herds to be milked. That is why I went with mini cattle. My bull is about 35 inches (about 250 lbs). Still 100% bull but smaller, easier to control and maintain safely.

Thanks For Reminder/warning
 

If Any One Doubts The Wisdom Of Extreme Caution W/bulls, Just Go To The Cattletoday Forum And Pose The Question....or Do A Search There.

Bulls Raised With Human Females Will Turn On Them When The Bull Is Grown.

They Will Knock The Feed Bag Or Feed Bucket Out Of Anyone's Hand.

Once When I Drove My Kia Rio Into A Pasture To Feed The Cows, I Got Out W/the Bucket And There Was Dear Little Tommy. He Immediately Attempted To Butt It Out Of My Hand. I Hit Him W/it And Ran Around To The Passenger Side Of The Car And Got In...by Then He Had Rammed The Driver's Side Of The Car. My Objective That Day Was To Leave Special Feed For A Cow That Had Just Calved. Lucky She Wasnt With Them, And I Could Drive Out Of Sight Of Tommy To Leave The Feed Near Her.

Ever See The Tv Show Lost? Well, We Were Trying To Locate A New Calf In Our Jungle On Foot. Should Have Fed The Small Herd First. Well, They Followed Us Thru The Woods The 2 Y.o. Black Angus Buddy The Bull Hollering And Snorting The Whole Way. I Was Able To Escape Because He Is Pretty Big And I Was Able Slip Thru The Skinny Trees To Get Back To The Truck. When Dgs Got Back, We Have A Chocolate Sheet Cake Someone Had Given Us As We Were Leaving The House. He Thru It Out In Chunks To The Cows To Distract Them.
We Finally Pulled Up A Few Yards And Dgs Jumped In The Back Of The Truck And Threw The Herd The Pellets W/had Brought For The New Mammy Cow.

I Was Already Careful Around The Bulls, But That Incident Doubled My Precautions. I Try To Spot The Herd Before They See Me And Spread Out There Pellets Before They Get To Where I Am. Then Spray Them Threw The Truck Or Car Window.

Sometimes It Is Easier To Drive The Car To Tend To The Cows, But I Would Never Buy One Of Those Small Open 4 Wheeler Deals To Do To Tend To Cattle.....old Tommy Could Have Easily Turned One Over.

Mom

Even though my guy is tiny compared to larger cattle, I NEVER go in the pasture without him being contained in the smaller holding pen or tried by halter and cables. same with the cow. she seems gentle but is fully horned and with a calf So I won't take the chance, though with her it is halter and cotton lead.

The sad thing is that we hear about people getting killed yearly by bulls and people still believe that it is an uncommon occurance and it really isn't. If a person has an encounter with a cow, she is typically smaller and I find their behaviour easier to predict but people fail to realize the incredible power that a bull has. I have dealt with range bulls, show bulls and everything in between because we were one of very few people willing to board bulls over the winter. I would advise anyone that can access AI to seriously consider it. Smaller breeders have the opportunity to use outstanding genetics that they might not be able to utilize by purchasing a bull. If a bull is mediocre enough that a person feels they can buy him, use him for one season and either eat him or sell him, he's likely not outstanding in any way and if he's not exceptional, one can safely expect unremarkable calves.

I know. A neighbor who helped them with their operation told me that he always told her to stay away from "them bulls". I think she was just so used to being able to get any job done, that she lost perspective and just jumped into "do" mode. The whole thing was just horribly tragic.

I agree that bulls can be dangerous; but for those of us with beef herds a bull and even two are a necessity. I never turn my back on our bulls even though they both seem calm. I try never even to get in close quarters with them, for instance when they are in the feed lot.
As for the poor lady who was killed trying to separate fighting bulls; we all do careless and very foolish things and sometimes get away with it. Just one time, though is all it takes as demonstrated by the story. I would not even go near two bulls that were fighting, let alone try to separate them.

I have had bulls come at me when I was trying to sort cows.

I dont go where a bull is with out a 2 foot piece of pipe in my hand, and I dont take my eyes off them for more than a second. If at all possible I pen the bull up away from the cows if I need ot work with them.

my neighbor has a couple of Santa Gertrudis bulls. I don't even like to be on the other side of the fence from them! I keep looking at the barbed wire, thinking-that wouldn't hold that 2000+ pounds of mean bull if he wanted to get to me!!! Thankfully, I don't much look like a heifer and he stays on his side of the fence but I'm with the OP, I'm very cautious around any farm animals-even my own.

I think it's a great post MTp. Too many people are unknowing, and overconfident in what they thought they knew., and by then it's too late.

MT - good thread and I would rather see you err on the side of expressing caution. Too passionate about protecting people's lives? No such thing.

Recently, I had a Dexter breeder try to talk me into buying a bull from her to breed instead of using AI. I have one Jersey cow and do not consider it worth keeping a bull on my property. During the exchange, the breeder encouraged me to get the Dexter bull, use him this season, than butcher. I expressed concern about having him in the field since my kids walk through to care for the other animals. They said "I would not keep a bull on my property that I didn't trust with children."

All that to say - there are people out there that "trust" a bull and encourage others to do so. Reitterating the need to be cautious is wise.

I am a Dexter breeder and this breed has marketed "docile, tame" bulls forever. You will often see photos of owners with small children sitting on the backs of Dexter bulls. 20 years ago a bull was imported whose sire was known to need a personality adjustment, and this imported bull was also problematic, as have been lots of his offspring. One breeder who used this bull AI on his entire herd over a long number of years said he "got rid" of every animal he owned from this line and was sorry he ever started breeding with him because of his ( and people he sold bulls to) experience with bulls from this line.

Because this bull threw an "in demand" color that brought a premium price for breeders, the known temperament problems were ignored and never brought to the attention of the general membership or discussed as to possible dangers . . . . . and with the breed, the breeders, the owners constantly promoting docile bulls in this breed, there undoubtedly will come a time when someone gets killed. Some of the young bulls exhibit problematic personalities from a young age. . . others who have treed or attacked people have reportedly "flipped out" when the breeder believed them to be "docile". It is amazing to me that any breeder would keep a bull in this breed who was known to come from a problem and be a problem but that HAS happened, with the excuse that the problems were all because of "bad handling" when the bull was young.

Try to warn breeders that this problem exists and they should be aware and be careful and they are more angry with the message and the messenger than those who allowed this situation to spread throughout a breed whose bulls are advertised and marketed as "docile and tame".

I know also of one breeder who was seriously hurt and hospitalized by a Dexter bull who did NOT have this known problematic bull in his background. He had his back to the animals in the pasture while working on a shelter he was repairing and the bull attacked.

I hope your timely post keeps ME from getting hurt for as long as I manage to keep it frontline in my consciousness because I admit to forgetting at times to be vigilant in my own herd and just this weekend I was trying to seperate a cow in standing heat that I wanted to AI, from a bull I did not want to breed her. In retrospect I was guilty of being downright careless
because my small bull is "docile".

JamsHundred.com

I think it would be irresponsible to market any breed of bull as docile and tame. Yes, some breeds in general are much more suitable for small holdings, but any animal, bull or cow, that exhibits temperament problems should be culled.
It does no service (IMO) to stress any particular bloodline especially one introduced 20 years ago. Each calf crop should be assessed for the traits you are seeing now.
I would never turn my back on any bull, and certainly it would be very unwise to try to remove a cow in standing heat from the bull. Having said that, the most dangerous animals I have had on the place have been rams. Perhaps it is easier to be on the lookout with rams, because they are more consistent in their quest to injure you.

I'm sure that tendencies can be seen at a young age. My 5 week old bull calf already paws the ground and charges my car. He will certainly not remain a bull. ;)

I have found this thread thoroughly enlightening....I 'knew' bulls could be dangerous, but it was in an abstract way, having never been around them. This made me 'see' the danger in a more tangible way.
I say thanks for the thread, and no, I won't be getting any bulls in the future (or rams! :hobbyhors...who knew?)

We have had several bulls here at Wolf Cairn Moor, but our new "two-legged bull" is the best and safest we've had to date. He does carry a .357 under his jacket, and a .38 on his ankle, but other than that he's harmless; he throws the best blooded calves one could ask for, doesn't eat us out of house and home, and I feel much safer in the barn or paddock among the cows.

When I was a kid my father got backed up against a fence post by a big Charlois bull, the bull chose not to take him out (for whatever reason) so luckily I grew up with a father. He sold the bull after that.
When we were kids bulls scared us to death, we'd been to enough rodeos to know what they are capable of when they get a man down. Always good to be reminded of their unpredictability, and how you should never have your back turned, and cows can be just as unpredictable.

A former friend of mine once spent several months in the hospital after getting on the wrong side of a holstein bull at the dairy where he was working on at the time. I think there were several broken ribs, a broken arm, punctured lung and maybe a ruptured spleen? Anyway, he was lucky to be alive.

I went out on the BLM at dawn one day and found two range bulls fighting. I hunted all day and came out of the mountains after sunset. I found them two miles away by the gate, still battling. I had to wait 30 minutes until they moved far enough so I could open the gate and get away. As far as I know, they are still fighting.

I know a man who had his back broken by his Holstein bull. He lived, the bull didn't.

Local FFA chapter always sells t-shirts at the SW Utah Jr. Livestock show. A few years back the say on it was: "no bulls, no bucks, no boars, no balls, no problems". That also says a lot for the people working with the youth to keep problems out of the show.
I have worked with livestock for over forty years. I own two Alpine bucks and work on a 100 cow dairy. My boss has decided to have NO bulls on the place. In the past we had a young bull for a heifer breeder. We are so much safer with no bull to watch. I appreciate this thread as the tune-up was needed by me too.