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Hey Dixiegal - any news on Daisy Mae?? Hope she's perking up some!
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well mplatt, ronnie sure is right about the surplying clean water at all times, my calves start drinkng a little water at 3 days of age, and by the time they are finnished the bag of milk replacer (at about 5 / 6 weeks of age )they are drinking as much water as milk....... even more in the summer, if you have raised calves without excess to fresh water to two months of age i really don't know how you have done so, although i do agree one the other advice you have given
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after a very quick look, these site say give water, are you going to disagree with these too?
unless they are on a free access to milk, then you must give water, and going by your post they are not on free access to milk 24/7 http://oklahoma4h.okstate.edu/projec...e/4hlit135.pdf http://www.omafra.gov.on.ca/english/...cts/06-083.htm http://www.uky.edu/Ag/AnimalSciences...n/nut00119.pdf http://www.milkproduction.com/Librar...er_feeding.htm http://www.calfnotes.com/pdffiles/CN068.pdf I think you gave bad advice to a young lady ( and anyone else ) who needs advice, and I guess your 150.000, was not well spent |
I give water from day one....understanding IF THEY drink they will also eat grain....thats what I want them to do...also in my angus herd I have seen week old calfs drink water right along with mom....I have always said a cow and calf knows what they need.....no matter what we think they need......tjm
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We do not offer water free choice to calves under weaning age as a general rule. If they are running in the goat pen then they have access to water.
Our calves get water in their bottles (yes mixed with milk or MR). They get a full 2 quart bottle twice a day until they are on a bucket then their total liquid amount is raised up to 6 pounds twice a day until weaning. This keeps a cleaner pen and does not harm the calf. After weaning, they are on Primer 1 free choice (this is offered from Day 1 and they are eating quite a bit by one month of age) and they have water free choice as well at that point. There are a lot of different ways to raise calves. What works for one may not work for another. The goal is to not overfeed and to provide enough nurishment that the calf will grow. We don't run into issues with our calves on this system. Have not for half a century or more they have been raised this way. They grow up to be healthy, heavy and strong milking cows. Our calves usually are larger then their classmates at the County Fair...also tend to be "overconditioned" for calves. |
Roseanna, are they weaned when running in the goat pen, and at what age do you wean?
lol @ the half century bit.......... yeah time flys don't it, it seems like yesterday we were sitting around singing 'yesterday' |
I'm only a quarter of a century old but the methods used to raise calves here today are the same that my grandmother perfected a long while ago.
There are times when newborn calves are run in the doe pen in the milking barn. Generally due to space issues. We try to have them in their own pen by at least a month old so we can offer them Primer 1 free choice. This cannot be done with the goats because they would eat it all. lol Calves are weaned at around 8 weeks old here...sometimes 6 weeks, sometimes 10-12. It depends on when we realize how old they are and also their growth. The calves that start out in the goat pen do drink water fairly early on and nibble hay but do not always take off on the Primer as quickly. Both groups grow just fine. We do not raise a large number of calves each year since we normally milk around 20 head. There used to be at 40+ calves a year but those days are long gone. |
lol, well i guess you wern't sitting singing then, lol
mplatt, no reason for you to take that attitude, and we are not talking about smoking, but feeding calves, oh well i guess if thats what you want to do, go ahead and delete. |
Well you now have me wondering. 2000 calves and losing less than 10. So that would be 5 or less per 1000. That is .5 percent loss. The answer to that is No Way!
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lol , yeah, go figure eh
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I don't usually get on during the day as I'm on dial-up and it hogs the telephone line. However, I do nip in and out and sometimes reply.
mplatt, nobody insulted you at all. You insulted me by implying that because you had the education and degrees, your knowledge must therefore be greater than mine. This is without knowing my educational level or experience. I see you have deleted both those posts. So let's call it a day shall we -those that wish to give their calves access to fresh water can do so with impunity in the certain knowledge that they are not going to keel over. Those that wish not too can do so also in the certain knowledge that they are not going to keel over. One thing is quite clear and that is that whichever way you choose to go about it, there appear to be no long-term adverse affects on the calve. This is Dixies thread and this bickering does not help with her immediate problem. P.S. I am a woman :) Cheers, Ronnie |
Dixie
How's the calf doing? |
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Shes had 4 feedings of kick start today and doing better, she seems to be getting a handle on sucking but still needs help, she walked around the garage, getting up better but still really shakey when walking, but she is walking!! :) She hasnt had any bm's today I dont know if that should worry me. Her breathing still seems hard Im debating if I should give her more feedings tonight, I dont want to find her down again in the morning. She had her last one at 7:30. |
If it were me I would try at least one more time tonight, and then again early in the morning. The fact that she is walking and holding her weight is very good.
Just make sure she stays warm, even if you have to put a blanket on her, I don't know if your temps dip down or not, and the stress of being chilled along with everything else will be hard on her. |
shes in the garage for now which is under our house and stays pretty warm. Ive got her a section covered with hay so the concrete floor wont chill her. My lab is still right by her side, he only leaves her for bathroom breaks :) Not too cold here tonight its still in the high 40s, the garage I would say is in the high 60s.
I'll give her another bottle and hopefully she be still doing good in the morning She gave my husband a good laugh today, I was rubbing her and talking to her trying to get her to get up on her own, I was telling her to please get and up just talking away, and I told her, you wanna just sit here and give up fine with me, your half angus half brahma and not good for anything but steaks anyway, as soon as I got the word steak out she just stood up,and walked to the garage door and stood there looking at it.. probably one of those, you had to be there kind of things but it was funny :D |
lol, I wonder if she would of kept going if the door had been shut, lol I can see her wandering down the road, mumberling............ huh, steaks indeed.
nice to hear she is drinking better, keep up the good work. |
That all sounds positive. A bit late now but I think I would have given her another feed before going to bed but it's neither here nor there - calves do very little feeding at night.
At this point I wouldn't worry too much about no BM's - there's very little that is going to turn to solids going into her which means that she's got rid of all the milk and that's good and probably why she's feeling a little chirpier. But do expect high and low points in her day - she's been very sick and will tire quickly. I take it she is peeing? Cheers, Ronnie |
I am so glad to hear she's doing better and perking up!! I will be thinking of you today and hoping for more great news!!
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I know with baby goats with no BM most of the time it means they are absorbing all the nutreints.
Sounds like she made it threw the worst if she is eating- good job- Liz |
She sucked her bottle down like a pro earlier this morning. Not as much energy as last night but still seems to be feeling better. I do wish her breathing would sound better.
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Not eating alot yesterday and feeling crummy could be why she doesn't have too much energy today. But the fact that she drank her bottle this morning is very, very good. How much did she drink?
Have you taken her temp? She may have something going on there. |
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I'll check her temp in a few minutes. The kick start says to mix with a pint or more, Iv been mixing it with a pint. After the powder is added its almost 2 pints . Yesterday I feed her every 4 hours for a total of 5 feedings. Her breathing has been strange since she went down the first time. I dont know if she sounded like this before she got sick, I didnt notice it the first day but I wasnt really paying attention to her breathing. Its kind of like a hard huff/snort sound when she breaths out. Sometimes its not as bad, but when shes laying down on her side or laying with her head up its worse. When I rub her down it gets louder. |
Okay, I think I've got it now, whith the aboumt you are feeding and with the sucking issue, It may be too thick for her to get out of the nipple, that could have been the reluctancy when you first gave it to her,
Does it look sort of like jello after you mix it up? The breathing part has me baffled at the moment. You said the vet said her lungs sounded good right? |
no its just like water when mixed, shes sucking it down very well now that she has got the hang of it.
Yes the vet said her lungs where clear. |
Yeah for some good news!
Keep at it, that 's all you can do. |
So glad to hear good news for Daisy Mae and you! Keep it up and let us know how she progresses!! Is she really destined for the freezer?? I might have named her something different then...... :-)
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when we talked about raising cows someday that was the plan, but I cant see anyway I'd be able to eat this girl. so shes just a giant pet or maybe raise some babies off of her. I cant imagine working this hard to keep her alive then killing her. Not much of a farmer am I,lol |
Join the club, and be glad it's a heifer. You can keep those!
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ok tonight will be 48 hrs on electrolytes.
Just checking to make sure I have this right, I dont want her down again because of lack of food or too much... ronney mentioned smaller feedings more times a day so this is what Im going to try, starting out in the morning with 1 pint and going from there. Im very nervous about adding mr back :) she wasn't very hungry at her last feeding and fought the nipple so I didnt push too much, hoping she does better when the 5:00 feeding comes around. She's still getting up and moving around a bit. |
With all this human contact, she'll be a good milker....didn't know how a brahma is for milk tho.... LOL
And a good momma! I say keep her and raise more babies!!! |
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y'all I am about ready to start bawling here. Yesterday she seemed to be on her way to mending, this morning she took her bottle fine she was sucking better and moving around more.
The rest of the day was a nightmare, having to fight her with each feeding, she would try to sling her head and keep me from feeding her, we got some down her each time but it was a huge fight. I just came back up from trying one before I went to bed since she didnt finish any bottle since this morning. Shes fought me with all her strength, I rubbed her and she tried to stand and kept falling back down and shaking then tried again flipped over on her side her body landing over her head bent in two like a pretzel, looked like she just folded herself in half at the neck.. I flipped her body off her head thinking she broke her neck. Calmed her down and helped her stand again she, she couldnt hold herself up I had to lean against her for awhile to let her get her bearings and then rubbed her talking to her and after awhile tried the bottle again, she just clinched her mouth shut twisting sideways and no amount of prying was getting it open. I stayed with her awhile more trying and finally just gave up, as soon as I moved from her side she just dropped sideways to the ground again. I think its time for me to admit that whatever is wrong with this baby goes much farther then just food and let her go. |
ahhh, dixie, at least you can't say you didn't try. I'd just wait to see what morning brings. maybe bed time w/o supper will change her mind.
-Melissa |
Dixie, she may have pneumonia and this would not be out of the way given the circumstances and would account for the huff/snort when she breathes out. Did you take her temperature? Are you finding that she is good in the morning and gets progressively worse as the day goes on?
I think you have come to the cross roads, not only for the calf but for yourself. It is time consuming and stressful. I've been down this track and must admit haven't always known when to call it quits. It has often been at the expense of myself, family and committments in other places. Sometimes it has been worth it, other times I've lost the battle. Nobody will think any worse of you if you decide to call it quits; you will have given it your best shot and you can't do more than that. And while you may not realise it now, you will have learnt one hell of a lot that will hold you in good stead for the future. See what the morning brings and take it from there. Cheers, Ronnie |
sending hugs, i know this hasn't been easy........
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dixiegal. I've never had a cow, but I've been reading this post and your original post for updates. Hugs to you, Daisy May and all the good folks who have given advice and moral support! Let us know how you are doing.
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Dixie,
In my experience with calf raising, the calf has to have the will to live to get through whatever it is they are battling. Some just don't, those that do will keep trying and keep getting better as the day and days to by, Those that don't just stop trying. You went above and beyond for a newbie IMHO, not many would have done that and just given up when she went down on you the first time. Stay strong and know that you did everything you possible could, the rest is up to her. |
no fever but cant even hold her head up, when trying to move her she acts like shes in pain by rolling her eyes and mooing and kicking. I just talked with our vet about coming here so I dont have to cause her any more pain by moving her and putting her down.
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here's hoping she is better this morning, but if not, as has been said, you tried your best. its not always easy, hang in there.
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Y'all have been so patient and willing to help and I wanted to thank each and every one of you from the bottom of my heart. I hope you dont think badly of me for letting her go, it just feels right. I wish I could have done more for her.
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