I have never posted on this before but help raise a calf or two when my grandparents had them ( a few lightyears ago) My grandpa would have us stick our fingers in the milk we were using in nipple buckets and let the calf that was unable to suck learn from that. They would lick then suck on the fingers of the kid doing chores and then move to the bucket nipple. Seems to have worked all the time, as I know he would have had a fit (very furgal man) if we lost one and I do not remember losing any. It does take time and alot of sweet talk. So maybe that is why he had us( or me more than anyone ) do it. Lol Kept me busy too. Good luck I wish I had the room to raise a calf this year. But I do not think the daycare I work in would let me bring one to feed and keep company darn it. P

ok we got her home and setteled in the garage on some hay, I put a bale on her side to get her to sit up. She doesnt look good y'all. when I got to the vets I went ahead in where they had her and she was on her side breathing hard still and not very responsive. I tried pushing on her side to encourage her to stand but she wouldnt. My sister helped me lift her and we got her standing ( now the floor was slick for her hoofs so that could be why ) but she just stood there with her little head hanging. I started rubbing her all over to get her moving and she perked up a tiny bit but not much.

The vet came in and we talked they had tubed her that morning she said 2 quarts. here is what they had treated her with:

of course the tubing 6 since wed morning, she did say I misunderstood and it was 2 quarts a feeding.
1 azium injection
2 nurflor injections
and they where giving her probios once a day

now shes resting but I gotta say she is very unresponsive, not at all like she was on the first day Ill try to feed her tonight at about 7 and see how it goes

I'm sitting here going tut. Even 2 quarts is way too much with an upset stomach and I feel so sorry for this little calve being force fed something that is doing it no good. 2 quarts = 2.274 litres which is a whole 25mls less than I feed my healthy calves.

Others, including you, may not agree with me but I strongly feel that if you continue to tube feed this calf milk it is going to die and that you have nothing to lose now by going back to my original suggestion which is to take it off milk completely and feed it electrolytes. It's stomach needs a rest and time to build up the good bugs again.

What are the stools like? I imagine they will be runny or porridgey, a peculiar colour (most likely a yellow/grey) and stink to high heavens.

Cheers,
Ronnie

we have no plans to try and tube her. Shes resting now and does stand when I go down to check on her but is still not very responsive. Her breathing is still hard when shes down.

As for feeding her eletrolytes I have some here now not sure if they are any good, its called ' kick start'

I dont have enough knowledge at this point to agree or disagree with any of you good people who are giving me advice, Im just listening and sorting through it and trying to make the right choice out of it :) and Im thankful for all of it.

oh her stools are a bit yellow/brown and dont have the bad stink they did the other day

Pâté de foie bovine?

liverwurst ? :shrug:

I don't remember who mentioned the idea of brushing her to simulate the mom's licking ... that sounded like a good idea ... if it didn't work maybe it would give her some comfort.

I'm going to keep that trick in mind next time we have a problem.

Hugs Dixiegal2 ... still rooting for her!

Deb

I have an old coke bottle that I fitted with a black nipple I bought @ TSC and it slips over the mouth of the bottle. I have used it for calves and lambs both and it seems to work fine. It's not a hard plastic like the one we had bought for the calf first time we had to bottle feed. This one is pliable and black. Maybe if you try one like that and find a glass soda bottle it might work better. I think the soda bottle I have is 16 oz and the calf started out drinking almost a whole one.....that's only 2 cups and we did it twice a day, I'm thinking.....

Good luck with Daisy Mae and hey! Keep singing!!!

I keep reading about this calf and have tried to see what will happen but I think this calf will die if you keep on the present course. Frst off I have raised a couple thousand bottle calfs over the years on my own and on dairies I worked on. But your present problem is dehydration and probably red nose which is a common virus also known as shipping fever. They are right stop feeding milk and feed electrolites for at least 48 hours or the calf will dehydrate and die then for 2 days feed a bottle twice a day with a raw egg in it until it has normal stool and then watch closely the stool and use the egg if it becomes loose again. And on the red noose Tylen 200 or 300 are good and are some of the drugs you are using but tubing the calf for long term is not good you may have to for a few days but sooner or later you have to teach it to drink and that just takes patients. But none of this matters if you dont keep the calf hydrated and you cant stop the scouers if you keep feeding it milk.Sometimes I feed smaller calfs a half bottle 4 times a day is best. And please do not feed the calf water the first 2 months a calf naturally does not drink water that young and when you feed water it dilutes the milk or milk replacer and pushes it through to fast and they dont get the full benifit. Good luck hope this helps

for those who agree with eletrolytes have you ever used kick start? It says its for electrolytes and energy
a blend of bovine colostrum, proteins, live viable microbials, electrolytes and vitamins.
heres what it has in it:

Kick Start
Imu-Tek

Ingredients:
Dehydrated Whole Milk, Dried Whey, Dried Whey Protein Concentrate, Dried Whey Product, Dried Milk Protein, Animal and Vegetable Fat (Preserved with BHA), Lecithin, Isolated Soy Protein, DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Vitamin A Acetate, D-activated Animal Sterol, Alpha Tocopherol Acetate, Cyanocobalamin, Folic Acid, Choline Chloride, Potassium Sulphate, Riboflavin, Niacin, Calcium Pantothenerate, Thiamine Mononitrate, Dicalcium Phosphate, Calcium Carbonate, Sodium Selenite, Ferrous Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Cobalt Sulfate, Zinc Sulfate, Manganese Sulfate, Magnesium Oxide, Ethylenediamine, Dihydriodide, Citric Acid, Silicon Dioxide, Polyoxy-ethylene Glycol (400) Mono and Dioleates, Artificial Flavor, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus lactis, Streptococcus faecium.

Guaranteed Analysis:

Crude Protein
Min. 18.00%

Crude Fat
Min. 18.00%

Crude Fiber
Max. 0.15%

Ash
Max. 12.00%

Added Minerals
Max. 4.5%

Vitamin A
500,000 IU/pack

Vitamin D3
100,000 IU/pack

Vitamin E
300 IU/pack

Lactobacillus acidophilus
8,000,000,000 CFU/pack

Lactobacillus lactis
8,000,000,000 CFU/pack

Streptococcus faecium
4,000,000,000 CFU/pack

Total Lactic Acid Producing Bacteria
20,000.000.000 CFU/pack



Directions For Use:
Mix 1 pack of KICK START in 1 pint or more of lukewarm water and administer orally by drench, bottle or esophageal feeder as follows:
Incoming: 1 pack per day for 2 days.

Drug Therapy/Sick Pen: 1 pack daily. Continue for 3 days after drug therapy.

Disclaimer: Every effort has been made to ensure the accuracy of the information published. However, it remains the responsibility of the readers to familiarize themselves with the product information contained on the product label or package insert.

Daisy May
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...l/IMG_5790.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...l/IMG_5795.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...l/IMG_5787.jpg[/IMG]

We used Quick Start on one of our calves -- doing as Ronnie suggests. That calf is fine now. I'm plugging for electrolytes and get off the milk til her stomach calms down and she gets the hydration!

Your in our thoughts!

Kelly

ok we gave here the electrolytes, she did suck but after a half pint she started fighting it and wouldnt suck anymore. She did however leave her spot shes been in all day and take a walk around the garage! :) she was shakey but she moved around checked out a few things peed and then went back to her hay and layed down. I put a border around here spot in case she got the urge to explore again and got hurt. My lab mix has decided to babysit her,lol, hes layed with her all day and is with her now. Hopefully a half pint will do her and maybe she'll be even more hungry in the morning. Thanks everyone maybe by morning she'll be a bit more better.

Dixie I'd leave your Lab with her all night long if possible....companionship means a lot to any herd type animal....Give up an update, bright and early....John

well it sure is one tough calf, most would of turned thier toes up by now. the calf doe's not look bad, not hunched up, the ears are down a bit. what breed is it?

If i was you i would follow ronnies advice, i agree with him on this. get some electrolytes into it. also if you can get a raw egg into it it would help too.
good luck

shes a black angus. I should put the raw egg in with the electrolytes or wait for when Im giving her milk?

Those ears do not look like black angus to me, I think the calf has some brahma blood. Nice size calf and will make a good animal. Have you tried the pulling on the hair/skin over the ribs to see if it will tent? That will tell you if the calf is dehydrated or not. Unfortunately, I think the calf will develop scours. Check around and see if you can locate a product named Spectam Scour Halt made by AmTech. Hopefully you may not need it but if you do you will know the source.

if i was you i would crack the egg, put in a mug, take mug to calf, lift her head and slide the egg down her throat. you don't have to wait to do this, you can do it any time.

what i use for combating scours is pepto bismol, yes the same stuff you may have in your cupboard in the house for human use, i give any calf i buy two to the little cup things that comes with the product, same way as giving the egg, hold her head up and pour down throat, after the first time ( as soon as i get them home) i do this twice a day, for a couple of days either just befoe feeding or after they dont seem to mind the taste, infact they seem to like it and will lick it off your fingers that spilt

Ill give her an egg in the morning ty. One thing I have noticed today and wanted to ask y'all is she is drooling, alot. I didnt notice this the other day is this something calves normaly do?

Yes, I forgot to add, rub, rub ,rub that baby all over while you are trying to get the bottle down. That's what their mommy does, and I believe in it.
Yes use the Kickstart for whatever it says on the package. The electrolytes will help with dehydration.

Right Dixie, now your cooking with gas :) Your calf is drinking, it is up and it is interested in it's surroundings. That's got to be a huge step forward.

Don't worry that it is drinking so little, anything is a bonus and you can offer the electrolytes every couple or three hours without fear of it having an adverse effect . Personally, I would leave the egg out of the equation at this point in time and just focus on getting electrolytes into her for the next 36 hours or so. This calf's stomach has been severely traumatised and the less changes in food that go into it, the better. Keep it simple and the electrolytes should provide everything she will need for the time being.

When you decide to put her back on to milk, keep it small and keep it frequent. If you can deal with four, or even five, feeds a day to start with, that would be the way to go. If it's only 1/2 a pint a feed, it doesn't matter.

I'm afraid Agmantoo is right though and your next problem could be scours. Not a huge problem if dealt with properly and to that end, follow his advice and get some of the product he mentioned. From my reading on here it is very similar to a product that I've used called Scourban and it is extremely good.

mplatt4, I must take issue with you over your comment that calves shouldn't be fed water until 2 months of age! What? ALL animals, including the young, should have access to clean water at ALL times. Two things comes to mind with this. Bottle/calfateria reared calves are fed twice a day and unlike their cow-reared counterparts, cannot dive in for a quick drink when they feel like it. This mean they go 10-12 hours without liquid intake and your giving them no opportunity to do so. The second thing is, that many of these reared calves are also being fed calf meal or similar to stimulate rumen activity. These grains absorb fluid from the gut and it needs to be replaced. My 6 week old calves will drink water within 30 minutes of eating calf meal and they are still being fed milk. Calves will sip water from 3 days old and their intake increases as they grow. Climate should also be taken into consideration. However, what must never be done is the dilution of milk whether it be cows milk or milk replacer. That will definately muck up the system.

Cheers,
Ronnie

Shes down again, She tried to stand but got up half way and just fell to her side, breathing hard, cant hold her head up to try and suck, when I tried and help her hold it up she tries to suck but cant.
Im so frustrated, last night I thought she was on the way to getting a bit better and now just as bad as before, and Im starting to feel like she would just be better off if I just let her go.

edited to add

I dont understand how she was doing so much better yesterday getting up and down, walking around last night then so bad again.

went down and tried again, it took 3 hours since early this morning but I finally got a pint down her. I had to make the nipple hole bigger she seems to be sucking but has a hard time pulling any milk out. Hopefully that will help.

dixie don't make the hole to big...some of the liquids may end up in her lungs...John

I know it gets discouraging,
The only thing that I would advise you to do, is to keep trying through out the day, to get something into her, and getting her up to keep the circulation in the legs moving,

Is there anything else I can do to make it easier for her, shes trying to suck and she'll suck the bottle for quite a few minutes and not get anything out of the nipple, then she just gives up

She's a nice looking calf dixiegal and it sure is heart wrenching when she can't get up and do what nature intended...EAT!

Are you using the big huge plastic bottle with the kind of orangey colored nipple? I still vote for the black nipple on a coke bottle - or something different.... I wonder if you have a regular baby bottle or are there any farmers nearby that might have another bottle to try? TSC isn't open here at this time of day on Sunday - is the Lab still down with her?? I am so hoping she pulls through for you! Do you know someone locally that raises bottle calves?? I have used any bottle that works! Even baby doll bottles for some baby rabbits my dog brought in.... If it works, go with it. Just don't over feed -

We're all pulling for you! When I watch my calves nurse in the pasture, they always bump up against the udder and there's a system they kind of go through.... I had one lamb that I had to give him the bottle under my leg so it kind of was like he was nursing from his mother. He took some getting used to, that one! Good luck with Daisy Mae! And hugs to you!!

[QUOTE=luvrulz]She's a nice looking calf dixiegal and it sure is heart wrenching when she can't get up and do what nature intended...EAT!

Are you using the big huge plastic bottle with the kind of orangey colored nipple? I still vote for the black nipple on a coke bottle - or something different.... I wonder if you have a regular baby bottle or are there any farmers nearby that might have another bottle to try? TSC isn't open here at this time of day on Sunday - is the Lab still down with her?? I am so hoping she pulls through for you! Do you know someone locally that raises bottle calves?? I have used any bottle that works! Even baby doll bottles for some baby rabbits my dog brought in.... If it works, go with it. Just don't over feed -

We're all pulling for you! When I watch my calves nurse in the pasture, they always bump up against the udder and there's a system they kind of go through.... I had one lamb that I had to give him the bottle under my leg so it kind of was like he was nursing from his mother. He took some getting used to, that one! Good luck with Daisy Mae! And hugs to you!![/QUOTE

I have a regular baby bottle and I could give it a try, Iv been calling all over the place trying to find one of the ones that goes on a coke bottle but no luck so far.

How is she now??

shes laying on her side breathing hard, she tries to get up but cant, when I pick her up and try to help her stand her back legs wont hold her up.

Dixie loosen the bottle ring slightly, this will allow the milk to flow out. Sounds like the calf is creating a vaccume on the bottle and the nipple. If this is the case the calf will never be swollowing the milk, because the milk can't exit the bottle. Loosen the white nipple ring, but not so loose it comes off. If the calf is sucking for several minutes as you mentioned then it must be hungry....John

You are going to need help to hold her up, once you get her up rub rub rub her and sometimes that will stumulate her enough to get them back legs under her. try to keep her proped up against something when she is laying down, don't let her lay out flat on her side.



I'm sorry to say, but this does not sound good, if she can not hold her self up she has no will to live,

If the calf is sucking and you don't see tiny bubbles flowing up from the nipple ring then the ring is on far to tight...

If the calf was up and walking around at the vets, now it's on it's side and can't barely stand. Well it's my belief that the animal is just weak from lack of nutritian. Get this bottle feeding dilema under control and I feel the calf may begin to thrive...The calf is sucking the nipple, that's the best news.

I loosened it this morning while feeding her hoping it would make it easier for her to suck. I loosened it to the point where milk was starting to drip from the ring and got it to the point where its loose but not dripping out. she was still having a hard time with it I would move the nipple a bit in her mouth till I found the spot where air was coming back in to the bottle when she sucked.

Do you see bubbles at all when she's sucking on the bottle? Before you put it in her mouth, when you turn it upside down, does the milk drip out? Maybe the hole needs to be a bit bigger, Dixiegal. Don't lose hope -

If all else fails, put it in a food bowl and see if she can lap it up. I had one that picked up on that right quick and didn't want a bottle at all...... I had to kind of mush her nose into it, but she took to it quickly.... I think your little girl is just hungry....

Might sound a bit weird, but at this point I'd clean the nipple well, fill the bottle with water, and try drinking from it it myself to see how hard it is to get the milk to flow. Then loosen ring and open nipple hole a bit as necessary.

Lynda

sometimes when she sucks there bubbles other times she sucks and nothing. I just got another pint of electorlytes down her ( she did do a bit better this time ) gave her another good rub down before I feed her.. I swear shes giving me more grey hairs then my sons did as teenagers

oh I forgot to add for the ones who mentioned checking it, each time I check on her I pull the skin on her side to a tent and it just springs right back every time.

NEVER feed calf more than 2 qts per feeding

2 qts 2 times a day

or 1.5qts 3 times a day

that is per vets instructions( and replacement bag instructions)