How many here keep a bull for breeding?

#21 12/31/07, 12:59 PM

We run bulls. With over 150 head, and pasture that is 2 hours away, there isn't really a way around bulls. I HATE bulls, they can be major trouble, and can hurt you even if they aren't intending to. If I had less than 50 cows, and all my pasture was where I lived, I would not even keep one around.

Here are the reasons I hate having them around.
1. Cost, pay $3000 for a bull, that gets hurt in his first season, and you will understand this one.
2. Cost, pay that same $3000 for a bull, that meets up with another of the same ilk. Then they proceed to DESTROY. Corrals, become matchsticks, and barbed wire is SUCH fun to work with.
3. Try handling them when they don't want to be. They CAN kill you, and if you are on horseback, they CAN take your horse out from under you as well. The only safe way to handle these boys (in that mood), is with a good OLD truck. One you don't care if it gets dented up.
4. Neighbour relations, Your bull visiting the neighbours, every day, no matter what sort of a fence you have, or what you did to enforce the idea he SHOULDN'T be there. Or, for that matter, having the neighbours bull in your pasture every day, no matter what measures were taken to keep him out. Makes for some pretty strained relationships. Plus, again, have fun with that barbed wire ;.)

5. Again Handling. They need the same shots and treatments as the cows, only they are close to twice the size, and don't mind turning your corrals into matchsticks.

6. Temprament. Some bulls just hate women. I have been there, and dealt with bulls like this. They don't last long on our place, but if given a chance they will seriously hurt you. Some bulls, just hate PEOPLE, and I have dealt with these too. Just hope your handling system is good enough to keep them away from you if needed.

7. Age, the older they get the more contrary they get(usually) when a 2000 lb animal wants to go somewhere, there isn't really much you can do to stop him. This goes back to the idea that he can hurt you even if he doesn't mean to. In this case you either need that 'old' truck, or you may as well just get out of his way until HE decides to do what you want him to. Been there, done that. And don't try hurring the situation, that just annoys them.

Dexter_Cattle · #22 12/31/07, 01:20 PM

Yikes! After reading that message, I am glad I raise Dexters. Sweet Dexter Bulls, not that they couldn't hurt you, but in general they are really sweet tempered.

robin f · #23 12/31/07, 01:48 PM

randiliana, your bulls must be range reared, very little contact with ppl, we have only had trouble with one bull a real nasty holstien x freisian, he lasted two months that we had him, then ...........beefburger, any beef breed we have had have been easy to look after, but never had a range reared one so that may be the differance

#24 12/31/07, 02:21 PM

Well, they are somewhat range raised. Afterall, you don't run 150 head of cows on just a few acres. But, it really doesn't much matter where they were raised. They can all turn nasty. We have at the moment 4 bulls. Lost 1 this summer, and sold another this fall. Quite often, when a bull hits 5-7 years old they start to turn onery. Not necessarily mean, just that they know how big they are, and that they are bigger than you. These bulls require a bit of knowledge and strategy to handle.

In the last 10 years we have had over 20 bulls, including the 4 we have now. So I have a bit of experience with them. They may have been range raised (on mama) but they have all been feedlotted and been handled a lot by humans. Some have only lasted 1 breeding season, and some have been around for 4-5 years.

They are bulls, and they are male. If there is a cow in heat they are going to try and get to her. If that means crashing/jumping fences, then that is what they will do. IF you try to get him away from her, he may not like that idea. Put 2 of them together, and sooner or later they will fight, to figure out their pecking order. If the boss bull looks cross-eyed at one of the lower end bulls, that bull is going to get his but out of the way. If you happen to be in his way, well he outweighs you at least 10 times. Guess who wins.

A lot of it has nothing to do with you, but you have to deal with it all.

Let me tell you a story about loading bulls. We have pasture 2 hours away from home so all 4 bulls had to come home on the same trailer. It is a 21' trailer. We sorted the bulls into pairs, and the first 2 were no problem. They got on the trailer, and we got the partition door closed. Sounds good, and that is what we thought too. Then we tried to load the next 2. One of them was the 'king', a Horned Hereford. He loaded just fine, just jumped right on, and stood there. So then we go bring up the other bull, and Mr king, just stands there all innocent like, and just looks and the other bull out of the corner of his eye. Well the other bull knows what that means, it is kind of an 'I dare you, just come on in here' look. And there is NO way he is going on there with the 'king'. So we figure if he won't get on with the king, then we will unload and load them the opposite. Put the bottom boy on first then load the king. That is when you really realize how fast a 2000 lb bull can move. The king bull jumps on, and before his butt has passed through the door (sliding door) the other bull is coming out. There was no way you were going to get the door shut in time. We did this in all the combinations you can think of, and finally ended up loading the 3 bottom bulls together (it was a snug fit) and then loading the king bull by himself. It took us 4 hours to load 4 bulls. They are fortunate that we did not have a rifle with us

, and they were awfully close to going to the sale barn too. They never tried to hurt us, and we are experienced enough to read them, and know what they might do, but you could have easily be injured, especially if they had wrecked the chute of some part of the corrals.

TedH71 · #25 01/01/08, 03:23 AM

Have you ever used experience dogs who will teach the bulls a lesson? Works for me. I run cur dogs.

haypoint · #26 01/01/08, 07:41 AM

I want to raise cows but I don't want to mess with/ go to the trouble of learning about AI. To me that's like wanting to have a garden but not want to pull weeds.
For less than 15-20 cows owning a bull is an expence you should plan to do without. With the hundreds of AI sires available to cover your few cows, gene pool size isn't a real consideration. Find out who in your area does AI and see if you could pay them to do it for you. You will have to learn how to detect heat in your cows. As a last resort, borrow a bull. But I don't see any reason for a small operation to purchase a bull, unless you are going to enter the rodeo.

Sher · #27 01/01/08, 10:37 AM

We raise Dexters and have the girls split in two groups. Houdini has one group of girls and Sampson has the other. So far, the Dexter bulls are calm and haven't shown aggression towards people.

Like any bull or breeding animal, we never totally trust them though.

#28 01/01/08, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TedH71

Have you ever used experience dogs who will teach the bulls a lesson? Works for me. I run cur dogs.

Yes, we have always had blue heelers. The do work, but, teaching a bull a lesson, all depends on the bull. Some just don't want to learn. There is only one thing for those boys, and that is the sale barn.

TedH71 · #29 01/01/08, 07:39 PM

Those type of bulls are best herded by heading dogs not heeling type dogs. Cur dogs tend to be heading dogs. Try a cur dog. Its best to have them in groups of 3. They work best that way but there are some good cur dogs that can work by theirselves.

#30 01/02/08, 11:43 AM

The best way to handle those bulls, is to send them to town. We use the heelers to move the cows, for the occaisonal bull, I have no need to switch dogs. Besides, ours have no problem taking the head if needed.

PACrofter · #31 01/03/08, 07:14 PM

For those of you who keep one or more bulls, how many cows do you have per bull? Especially those of you who keep Dexter cattle...

#32 01/03/08, 08:24 PM

Well, we don't run Dexters, but the ratio should be pretty much the same, regardless of breed.

We run up to 40 cows per bull. With mature bulls we will usually run at least 30 head to a bull, although it depends a lot on pasture size.

bigfoot2you · #33 01/03/08, 08:53 PM

What is a Cur dog?

MTplainsman · #34 01/03/08, 09:12 PM

Can't say for the Dexters, but I run Red and Black Angus, and Red and Blk Angus/Hereford crosses. I don't mess with yearlings, as they are don't condition well, may string out calving, and clash with older bulls. I run a minimum of 30 to a max of 40 cows to a 2yo or older bull. You shouldn't try to breed any more than 25 cows with a yearling.

TedH71 · #35 01/03/08, 09:48 PM

Cur dog is a breed..actually a group of breeds that have been bred to hunt AND herd both along with guarding tendencies. They tend to be strong head dogs and do not need the fancy words that other herding dogs need (such as border collies, ete) and they like to work with minimal human interference. They are capable of learning words but their working style is not like most herding dogs. Examples of cur dog breeds: catahoulas, blackmouth curs, mountain curs, brindle curs, Stephens curs, blue lacy and there are quite a few more cur breeds that I either have forgotten or not aware of. Let me put a few pictures of catahoulas herding semi-feral cattle.

Catahoulas,blackmouth curs tend to be on the hard headed side. Blue lacys aren't which is why I have one. I used to have catahoulas and blackmouth curs but can't at my present place because they require a lot of work to burn off their energies while blue lacys are energentic dogs, they know how to be calm inside.

Gathering the cattle:
How many here keep a bull for breeding? - Cattle

Making sure cattle stay together and not fight the dogs:
How many here keep a bull for breeding? - Cattle

Getting some air to persuade the escaping cattle to go back to the herd:
How many here keep a bull for breeding? - Cattle

Some pics of blue lacys at work:

How many here keep a bull for breeding? - Cattle

Blackmouth cur telling the bull to go back to the herd while the other dog (blue lacy pup) watches and learns:

How many here keep a bull for breeding? - Cattle

My blue lacy with my son:

How many here keep a bull for breeding? - Cattle

jerzeygurl · #36 01/08/08, 04:49 PM

we keep the bull untill he is done, then we eat him....

Turkeyfether · #37 01/20/08, 03:09 AM

Good Lord~ From what I've read so far, if I ever get cattle, It'll be Dexters.I've always thought that anyways, since we don't need a whole lot of milk. Holsteins have a milkbag the size of a car's gas tank (TOO too big, thank you.But a Dexter seems to be a family sized cow or a shared family cow & a bull of pleasant temperament is a NICE thought.
Black Angus are absolute beauties! I must confess.But, I know what's meant by trying to load an animal who does not want to be loaded. It can take up HOURS of your day.Well, that's not for me. I have a full time job to arrive at .So, I'll have to let the FULL TIME farmers deal with that & I'll buy their meat.
I've decided to raise as much of my own food as I can & buy from LOCAL FARMERS ( not China) what meat & vegetables are too much for me to manage.
I've SERIOUSLY thought of raising cattle, but this thread has helped me to see the light.
I'll stick with turkey & chicken farming, which I've seen a pleasant increase in. At least I can KICK a nasty gobbler or smack him with a bucket!

mtman · #38 01/20/08, 08:19 AM

we keep 12 cows and one bull the bull has been hands on since he was born comes when he is called i can do anything with him except get on his back
we now have another one allmost all angus he is ten months old and will be the same way he is NOT for the freezer he will be sold for breeding

Herman:
How many here keep a bull for breeding? - Cattle

Little Man:
How many here keep a bull for breeding? - Cattle

jerzeygurl · #39 01/20/08, 12:38 PM

angus bulls are typically gentle(tho fence jumpers) we used one for quite a while and sold him for a nice sum....

I keep a Jersey bull because I have Jersey cows, and many people wanting heifers want pure not crosse, even though the crosses make nice milk cows as well. You NEVER want to hand raise your jersey bull, you dont want them to play with you....

we never keep them over 2 years of age(they are pretty tame until 18 months then they tend to go macho), they dont have much value at market because of the yellow fat, and they taste great....

dosthouhavemilk · #40 01/20/08, 01:27 PM

Our homegrown bulls (Jersey and Jersey/Norwegian Reds) are always hand raised. They are raised differently then the heifers, however. Not handled the same way.
They can be hand raised successfully, but they should definitely not be treated the same way heifers are. No cattle should be made into "pets" similar to cats ad dogs. They are much bigger and more likely to hurt you unintentionally if they think it's okay to play. Bulls are not scratched on the tops of their heads. They are not handled near as much.

Jason would see me when he was 12 months old and run over blubbering momma because the big girls were picking on him. lol I went out into the field the night he was shipped, put a halter on him and alked him to the barn.
Interestinly enough he halter trained himself. He would follow the milking cows to the barn and stand on the back walk waiting for dad to put his halter on and tie him. It certainly wasn't necesarry. That was his habit. Made him quite easy to work with.

We've kept bulls for longer than the 15 months...our current Jersey bull will be two in April and is still incredibly laid back. He has not turned yet. However, bulls turn on a dime and usually around 18 months old. It isn't something you generally see coming, but his disposition thus far is quite nice.
It's just the close proximity to neighbors that means we have to sell them when we are done using them. Not everyone else understands bulls. The fact the neighbor chased a stray bull down the road with her car is proof of that.