|
giving up my raw cow milk permit
Kind of a sad day- NYS is making more rules and stricter guide line for all of us selling raw milk. After having e-coli show up in my milk twice then the recall and second samples come back fine- I am sick of it all. I decided to let go of my raw cow milk permit- which is very sad for all who want and need raw milk. The goverment is just making it harder and harder to sell it legal- I really feel- they should leave us alone- IF someone buys raw meat it is their choice wether to cook it. It should be the same for milk- personal choice.
Step backwards for our Free country- Liz |
What did I tell you Liz. Many were saying it was a conspiracy on my part and actually they are also saying its a conspiracy on anyone's part that was saying "the government does not want you selling raw milk".
Well the fact is, they do not. They have consistently been "finding" pathogens in some farms milk, they are trying to draw up a pattern so they can say "see it is dangerous". Back on March 1st, 2007 the FDA released a press release stating how dangerous it is to drink raw milk. Shortly after farms started to test positive for pathogens. One of the Ag and Markets guys (Casey Mchugh or however you spell his name) said that "its the season" for the time we had ours tested positive (even thogh subsequent tests came back negative). The season he was referring to is wet/cool weather. But here is the interesting part. Why did four farms test positive for the same pathogen during June, and it is my understanding it was very hot and there were drought conditions in PA at the time. If it is the "tis the season" crap, then why did it show up when things were dry as a bone? Its all bs, all they should do, and it would make things more fair for the farmer. Simply say "we dont want you selling raw milk, so stop selling, send back your permit". Instead they rather humiliate the farmer for something that was likely NOT in the milk. Remember, they cant collect taxes on raw milk, and it is also competition for the milk market. So naturally they dont want it. Now here is the funny part, according to them our Somatic Cell Counts were high, yet I received the Gold quality milk award a week or so ago from the coop. Isn't that just the least bit contradictory? Also we tried and tried and tried some more to get the commisioner to the farm, he doesn't want to, or alteast his director doesn't want him to. More or less, Patrick Hooker does NOT support small farms, if he did, he would come. And finally, my milk inspector back in september came, and asked me "is it true?". I said "whats that?". "That there is a video of David Smith and Valerie on some website?". I said "yes". My milk inspector didn't care, but seemed amused by it. Actually he knows what we went through, so he was more or less on our side (he was afterall an x farmer). So the state tried to turn my inspector against me, didn't work. I am glad they know about the video, and it could be why they stay WAYYY away. Jeff |
Heyya Liz, Sorry to hear this...I haven't really been following the raw milk sales saga but we were thinking of apply for a permit here in Pa. Better I do some looking before thinking about applying..We(wife and daughter) got the pastuerizer and packaging equipment set up this weekend and really are happy with it. Have ya heard from Wendy or Jim lately? Hows the new girls workin' out? Tom
|
Bummer.
FWIW our inspector told us very clearly that the government didn't really want people to sell raw milk. He'll still come test, etc. if we decide to get the permit, but he was honest about the fact that it is not likely worth our time, money and bother. Very sad, but we totally appreciated his candor. |
Jeff- and Tom-- If you read what is out there the whole country is trying to bash raw milk. I for one know it is the most nutritious food on this earth. I have heard story after story of how it has healed people. I really feel my inspector is/was on my side. but with new rules on fines and press releases. I just can not live in fear. I am tired of it all. jeff- Funny thing my inspectors says you will get bad samples in hot dry weather- me and 4 other Ny goat producers did in July- first sample bad all others good. I was only still selling cow milk to a few family members as I now ship- but now they can just have it. Not worth the hassle for me to keep that permit. I will try agian with goats milk this spring but only time will tell-
NYS also said I have high bacteria and like you coop has it listed as less then 10- TOm- I AIM wendy- she is good--better. Have not heard from JIm- need to hear about those new cows. Guys we have a small cow list- familycowcare@yahoogroups.com if anyone whats to join. Liz |
Back on March 8th they had us at 550,000, we were actually at 55,000 for SCC. Another time they had us at 180,000 and both DHIA and the coop had us at 85,000 for that day. They routinely messed up in the lab. See Dairyone and the coop do not count it manually. If someone that doesn't know what they are doing counts, they could easily count it wrong.
There are several at milk control that do not want raw milk. One is Larry Cosgrove, another is Jim Fitz, and the other is Will francis. Will was heard while giving a speech at some confrence by a farmer that "He does not want raw milk sold in his state". Funny more people get sick by pasteruized milk, than raw milk. I cant remember the statistic but one I do know is that 80 million or so are sickened by foods the FDA approves, and 5000 die. Also 106,000 die per year from FDA approved drugs. Yet somehow raw milk is more dangerous. Remember the FDA makes money off of prescription drugs, they make oodles of money actually. Its all about money, nothing more. Jeff |
Quote:
|
Well I will keep selling raw. I have indeed had a few high e-coli counts. No big deal. They never fined me or recalled my milk. My scc have been up almost to 1,000,000. At the end of lactation. Still no big deal. I am sorry to hear you all have trouble.
|
Give it time steff, give it time. Slowly but surely they will clampen down the vise.
Jeff |
Hi Steff- I may try the goat milk agian- time will tell. Just be ware they have made new rules- I beleive they do not like that more and morepeople are getting into it. They are having trouble govering it and they are failing. In my eyes- Trying to make it hard is there way to push us all out. I just have much stress in my life right now.
Steff- when you had e-coli in your milk this summer- so did I and 3 other NY producers. Do you think it was us or them? |
I read an article yesterday in Farming magazine that touched on how raw milk sales are expanding on the "bottom end" of dairy farming, going along with the want that people have for organic, non-factory foods.
If you are in the Northeast, Ohio, or Wisconsin you can get a free subscription to the magazine. It's geared to the Northeast. http://www.farmingmagazine.com/ Liz, I'm sorry you are giving this up. I understand not wanting to deal with the headaches and hoops, though. Jennifer |
One thing to add, an inspector in this area said to my mother that "the lab has accidents all of the time". Labs aren't perfect, and the fact they test a ton of stuff, makes you wonder if the contamination can occur in the lab. Also I am curious liz. Did any of your inspectors wear gloves? Perhaps wash their hands well? I know ours didn't, and on the video it shows them coming in, touching their pant legs, and NOT washing before inspecting my milk claws.
Jeff |
I do like my inspector but no half the time he does nto wash his hands- and I know that this time he set containers on the part of the bulk tank that I set my milk bucket on to pour it- I use a pail and it is very heavey and I lift it and set it on my tank where to motor is- After the cow killing crazy week- so I know that I did not clean that area before her set all his stuff there- all does not matter now I guess. I did get a letter from NY stating if I get another bad sample I would get a fine. WHAT i have no money. I also thought it was crazy that even though I gave my permit up- they still needed one last cow milk sample. WHY??
I will see if this is COW big business. They do not seem as hard on the goats milk-- OH and I was told that there are NEW tests now.. great.. |
This is long, but important to everyone
I received this a few days ago from Kathy Cress. Please forward this to all your RAW MILK friends ASAP. We should all get "mad as HELL," and not take it anymore and do whatever we must do to provide this milk for those who want it.
I have one cow and about 20 families up here in my tiny neck of the woods that want Ginger's milk...she cannot produce enough for all of us. We do NOT need the "protection" of BIG BROTHER in this matter. Remember, this IS the united States of America and the Citizens' RIGHT TO CONTRACT for goods or services is precedent to the Constitution for the united States of America and NO laws can be made to impede that RIGHT, especially when there's no intent to DEFRAUD another: Hello: I'm a CA mother of four children and RAW milk products: milk, butter, cheese are consumed by my family. I know you are in Idaho, but when laws get passed in CA it increases the risk of similar laws being passed in your state too. Please join our fight in the right to consume RAW milk. The reps of Organic Pastures are meeting with law makers tomorrow Monday, October 29th. It would be great to rally as a nation by contacting via FAX or Phone the government reps in CA. Could you please pass this info on to any contacts you might have that also consume RAW milk? Your effort is greatly appreciated in our effort to reverse this law. Thank You, Kathy Cress Organic Pastures has made it very simple for you to write to the lawmakers,just click on this link and go to the links. They even give you sample letters to copy and paste. http://www.organicpastures.com/contact_lawmakers.html Even if you are not in CA, please support us in trying to keep raw milk legal: http://www.localforage.com/local_for...ment-snea.html Government Sneak Attack on California Raw Milk No more raw milk after January 2008! Come fight for your right to eat whole, unprocessed foods and raw milk Eight words are threatening to change your life: “or more than ten coliform bacteria per milliliter” October 25, 2007 Government Sneak Attack on CA Raw Milk This just in from Mark McAfee of Organic Pastures raw dairy outside of Fresno... The state of California has perpetrated yet another disturbing assault onour rights to consume whole foods. Call your representative in the California state assembly and senate, the governor, and the Secretary of Agriculture to make sure your voice is heard. Those are the eight words added to dairy legislation in California on October 8, 2007. Assembly Bill #1735 (AB 1735) was signed by the Governor and becomes law on January 1st 2008. Contained in this law are new standards for raw milk. These new standards require 10 coliform bacteria per ml or less. This standard does not increase the safety of raw milk and it will make the production of organic raw milk in California nearly impossible. Under the old tried and true old standards that have been in existence for forty years or more, coliforms could be 50 or 500. It did not matter. Coliforms are not pathogenic. They do not cause disease. They actually act very effectively to protect raw milk against pathogens like E. coli 0157:H7. Coliforms make vitamin K, B-1, B-2, B-6 and B-12 and without coliforms, and the beneficial colicins they produce we would die. These eight words in California law will in effect remove and deny your access to raw milk, because it is not possible to reliably produce raw milk with coliform levels at less than 10 per ml. Most milk samples simply have coliform counts higher than 10 per ml. That is just the nature of milk, a fact that is in USDA published peer reviewed journals show the value of good coliforms in food safety and surely this should be known by the CDFA in California. Read these studies on our website. The language contained in AB 1735 was placed there by CDFA to get rid of Raw Milk in California. Last year you might remember that CDFA ordered a recall of all OPDC raw milk products. Several months ago after threatened legal pressure CDFA settled with OPDC for a cash amount, mutual legal release, and the promise that OPDC would not sue CDFA or its personnel for the biased and unfounded recall. FDA, DHS, and CDFA concluded after several weeks of intensive testing of cows fresh manure and OPDC dairy products that there was no connection between any sickened children and OPDC raw dairy products. AB 1735 is nothing more than a CDFA sneak attack trying its very hardest to once and for all get rid of raw milk and OPDC. But don’t take my word for it. Go to the California Assembly website and check out the legislative notes. This attack was directed right at you and me and we were not even consulted. Read more here about how to investigate your legislator’s intentions. Investigate their intent. It is time for you to call your representative in the Assembly and Senate, the Governor, and the Secretary of Agriculture to make sure your voice is heard. It is also time to write to your local paper and post on your blog how you feel about these eight new words in California law. Find out how. The Agriculture Committee Staff claims that there was no argument or discussion about this issue and that there was unanimous consent during the vote when AB 1735 passed. There were supposedly public hearings held in January 2007, but neither Claravale nor OPDC was advised and no raw milk consumers were told either. These are the only two dairies in the state to be effected by the change of code and law. If you want raw milk on the shelf or at the farmers market in California; it is time to fight for this right. We ask that you please come to the Fresno Farmers Market on Saturday October 27th at 11:00 AM for a press conference and formal announcement of the sneak attack. The press will be present and will want to hear your testimonials. We do not loose are rights all in one day. We lose them little by little every day. Stand up and let’s show them what we brave raw milk consumers are made of in California. Learn how you can help. - Mark McAfee, Organic Pastures Dairy Company www.organicpastures.com Organic Pastures has made it very simple for you to write to the lawmakers, just click on this link and go to the links. They even give you sample letters to copy and paste. http://www.organicpastures.com/contact_lawmakers.html You can't assume that someone else will take care of this.... Changes require your support and voice. I'm even considering going to Fresno on Sat for their press conference. You can camp on the dairy land, they will be serving raw milk, cheese, and butter to attendees. Please take a moment to help, even if you are not a citizen or voter....... Thanks Christina *********** http://www.organicpastures.com/ab1735_landing.html GO TO WEBPAGE - links in below text Government Sneak Attack on California Raw Milk No more raw milk after January 2008! Read the Organic Pastures Press Release (pdf) Read our Analysis of AB1735 Help save your real milk. Here's what you can do: * Contact law makers in California. Find specific law makers and sample letters. Start writing now! * Attend our press conference in Fresno on Saturday, October 27 at 11 a.m. (at the Fresno Farmer’s Market on the corner of Shaw and Blackstone). We are planning a gathering after the press conference. Bring your family and a picnic. We will supply the milk, cheese, and butter. Details to come. SoCal friends: bring your cooler, we’ll fill it with milk. Bring your tents and camp at the dairy. * Write a letter to the editor of your area newspaper. When it appears in print, send us the link and we will link to it here. * Write an article on your blog. Send us the link. We will link to it here. * Read what others are saying. Did you know that strains of coliform bacteria are beneficial and crowd out pathogenic forms? Did you know that strains of coliform bacteria produce B vitamins? Read more in our Analysis. Stay Updated, Get Free Stuff! Stay updated and get some free web resources while you’re at it. Sign up for our updates and receive: * Advance access to our upcoming exposés on milk and milk politics. Get the scoop before everyone else. * The Miracle of Milk by Bernard MacFadden. You will receive a digital copy of the full text of this century-old book. It is about “the milk cure” as described in Ron Schmid’s The Untold Story of Milk. * Phytic Acid: Simple Kitchen Techniques to Reduce Your Food Phytates. A free e-book with the most extensive information on the Internet on reducing phytic acid in your food. Sign me up! Name Read more about the legislation Visit the California Legislature website In the search box type “AB1735” * Read the versions called “amended” and “introduced” to see the changes in the law. Search for the word “coliform” to see the specific changes in question. * Read the “analyses” in the committees and on the Senate Floor. Here’s a quote from the analysis on the Senate floor: Within the past year, two outbreaks of Escheria Coli 0157:H7 in Washington and one in California have been linked to raw milk consumption. The absence of a coliform standard in bottled raw milk is a significant gap in current regulatory food safety monitoring. Thanks for reading and passing this on ...JulieLou |
Liz, you dont have to let them take another sample. That is more BS from the state. Simply say NO, and send your permit in. I found that it doesn't matter what is done or said to a raw milk inspector, as it doesn't effect your regular inspection. Heck they know about the video, and nothing changed as far as sending a regular state guy here etc etc. It is a different animal.
The way I see it, the consumer is eventually going to become aware of the food quality from big buisness, and figure out that it isn't up to standard. I hope that one day there will be such a demand from people buying locally, vs a store. The government wont be able to do a thing about enforcing it. The raw milk market is growing and growing. More and more that try it, and figure out that the stuff in the stores is junk, they will want more. I am not a big health nut, but I do notice this. When I drank the store bought milk, there was a strange aftertaste and it didn't set well. When I drink our milk there isn't that after taste and it does set well. Another thing, and im not sure if its simply the way the cheese is. But when I eat those curds from the store it gives you gas in the form of belching. Not sure if it would be different if it was "raw curds". Either way when you have the controller, that controls interstate shipments of milk not wanting it, the FDA, and even the drug companies ALL against milk. It isn't surprising they want it banned. Remember this fact. Why is it, not a single case of any pathogen on any farm prior to this year? Yet all of these problems right after the FDA says how dangerous milk is. Jeff |
Liz- I did have a few e-coli readings that were high and no it was not a conspiricy. My teat dip was no longer good. Switchedto the good stuff and everything is fine. My inspectors never wear gloves but neither do I. Yes lab accidents happen, no big deal.
If they wanted to get rid of raw milk they would simply slide a bill in with some tax break bill and nobody would be the wiser. You would simply get a letter in the mail notifying you the you can no longer sell milk raw and that would be the end of it. If you follow the regs and are super clean you are ok. |
Still would like to know why the ag and markets director said "I dont want raw milk in my state" being NY. This was overheard by a farmer at some confrence.
A farm near Utica tested positive for listeria back last spring. They asked for the inspector to come back to take another sample. The inspector was told NO by his boss. Now why would they do that? Back last spring all of the ag and market directors met in Salt Lake City, UT. They all met to discuss raw milk sales, and to vote on legislation to BAN cow shares. So in otherwords it would be illegal to own a cow in a way, considering cow shares is partial ownership in a cow. The person who wrote up this bill talked with the farmer in Utica or near Utica, and said he would write a rebutle if their test came back negative. As he was watching what was going on (all of the cases in a short amount of time, with NONE prior). The FDA released a press release stating how dangerous raw milk is on March 1st. Prior to this press release, not a single case. A raw milk inspector told us that "Ny does not want you selling raw milk, and will make you jump through hoops to get your permit". All of these things, yet somehow "oh they would simply just pass a law". Actually they have to have good reason to do so. You can't simply pass a law without reason. So what do they do? They draw a pattern so they can legally pass a law saying "see all of the cases?". Also one last bit. Why did Ag and Markets lie with two cases. One in PA and one in GA. With both incidents they said people were sickened by the raw milk, yet when some calling was done to all of the hospitals, not a single one said they had anyone in sick with said pathogen. Jeff |
Steff-- I hope you and can still sell our goats milk. but truth is they are making it harder. You have been lucky all along- did you retest for Bro.? There is new rules that if you have e-coli in your milk you will get fined. Also new tests are being used. As will see what spring brings with the goats milk- I also know from ilking cows now that cow are big business. and Goats are not that much of a threat. I hope you and other do keep selling and pushing the laws- For the cows milk I can not afford the fine. I feel I am super clean- Are you done with goat milk for this year? Mine are just about dry- Liz
|
I'm new to all this, just got my first cow last weekend. However, I figure that anything the government doesn't want you to have that bad must be really good for you!
Have our politicians lost their minds completly? I think so. Where I grew up the local dairy was just down the road. We (and many others) went to the farm and "stole" milk from the tank and left a "donation" in the room. :cool: |
Ya know, its interesting to note. With all of the supposed milk contamination the state claims, whether it is e-coli or listeria, or other stuff. Wouldn't people be sick? How come not a single case has been reported with all these supposed positive tests. You would think there would be someone who is sick. Not a single soul.
Which brings up the reason why pasteurization was the norm, or became the standard. It wasn't because of pathogens, it was because of diseases PEOPLE had, that contaminated the milk. Pathogens is the excuse now adays, and going back some 30+ years, only a couple have died (supposedly) with only a couple thousand sickened. Yet for some reason, raw milk is dangerous? But with this past year, about 10+ have had "contaminated" milk, with no illnesses reported at all. Hmmmmmmm. Jeff |
NY Dairy Farmer Turns the Tables When the Ag Inspectors Arrive for a Mystery Visit
http://www.thecompletepatient.com/jo...tors-arri.html |
Jeff- I am not sure why I would get fined and Steff does not. But good for Steff- I know her inspector seemed laid back. Mine is nice but a stickler for the rules. My inspector also said you WILL Get bad samples-- so why fine me. How can I controll this. I scrub and clean with super hot water proper sanitizer- not much more I could do.
AND you are right- I had to recall my milk twice. and Not one person report even a stomich ache- I drink a half gallon of mik a day and am very sensitive I have not ever felt better. Liz |
What we can sell 25 gallons A month with out a permit-- I am going to find more about that rules anyone know??
Liz |
I'm glad to see ladycat posted that, my mother saw it earlier today. I wonder where she got the camera idea from. This is what more farmers need to do. That was the only reason why she intimidated them. Those cameras are a usefull tool. Thing is mine was hidden, hers was right there.
Good for Crystal Acres. Jeff |
Quote:
I've read in one place that you can sell so many without a permit, but then another says you can't sell without a permit, Very mind boggeling. That stinks Liz that you are being put through all of this after what you have been through |
I think in Oklahoma they can sell without a permit if the customer buys it directly off the farm.
There's legal info about various states here, but I don't know how up to date it is: http://realmilk.com/milk-laws-1.html |
Thanks Shelby- I do feel whipped with life- aftert lossing my mother and mother in law this year that was enough . then the cow now this.. what is next.
Hey I might have a bred two teater jersey cow to sell--wink.. gonna have the vet out to comfirm that she settled. I need 4 teats and tons of milk--smile. Liz |
You need a good milking holstein. I dont know, with 9 cows im shipping about 1150, but some is taken out of the tank so I am over 1200 total. So about 67lbs average. This is with 8 holsteins, 1 Jersey. The Jersey is only at 40-45lbs, and one holstein about 8 months along. Swiss calved a bull calf, so soon it will be 10 in the tank. But on next test if that Jersey is high, ill dry her off. I like 2nd lactation cows, they milk well, stay up. But if it wasn't for those holsteins, I would be half the amount, making half the amount of $.
Jeff |
jeff- I have a young herd- all 1st fresheners except one- Someone killed my only holstein. So yup I am milking half of what you are- only milking 7- so hope when my BS and Jersey/holstein calf in Nov. My number will be up- and I am broke so can not add any holsteins. Who do you ship with? I thought you were milking a lot more?
Liz |
I ship with Dairylea. Inspector is good, no issues with the company, they finally have a good set of drivers (they actually spray the tank out, vs be lazy).
No, my numbers are small. I was higher last fall, but a couple got out of sync. I shipped a couple Jerseys due to problems. One was a two titter, another had a crappy udder. I only plan on going to 18 cows, 6 heifers in the barn. Setup with 9 on each side for the cows, and 3 on each side for the heifers at one end, with two box stalls. Keeping things small, as I am trying to build a deep pedigreed herd, that I can market out of. Jeff |
I have asked about that 25 gallon law. Seems it is an old law and some folks have been grandfathered to still be able to use it. Now one must have a permit to make available raw milk.
My first inspector was not laid back, he checked every inch of my facility. I had a few months in a row of high e-coli. They told me to post a sign stating the test results so that my customers were aware of the problem. That was regular e-coli not the bad stuff. Not a single customer cared. The reason they could not retest the milk that was positive for lysteria is thats the law. The producer must now pay for retests. |
So, why do they send back an inspector to test each week, for 4 consecutive weeks, and we dont pay for that. Yet when you request for them to come back, they say "no no". Better yet, if you ask them to come back to take a sample to send to your own lab like that farm did near Utica, they denied it.
Jeff |
Quote:
Wow. I have always felt just a little "tin foil hat" when I asked my husband if we should worry about our anti-NAIS and pro-real milk activism. ...hat's off now. Thanks for the link. |
The more the merrier. If only a couple are anti-NAIS they can be dealt with. But if it were "strength in numbers". They have an uphill battle.
Jeff |
All our outgoing mail has my anti-NAIS Jersey calf sticker on it...I made up some with the pix from http://NoNAIS.org .
Only trouble is, Idaho is a state that has a very high proportion of its "premises" registered, which is the first step in the program. Ours isn't ...and won't be so long as I can keep it that way. I talk against NAIS with whomever I can. |
Funny you have a Jersey on the sticker. The Jersey Association seems to be a big supporter, the only association I have seen thus far with a link to "register your premesis". They were the only one I can remember that has sent us a form to do so. We threw out the form.
Jeff |
I beleive the American dairy Goat as is for it also. Last time I read-
Liz |
| All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:16 PM. |